WARNING: Avoid latest AOS updates!

[rtparty]

Since you’re the inquisitive techie person that you are……..have you opened up (um, never mind….warranty void if removed, I’ll rephrase that), have you seen the insides of the new qd (definitely not one that you just purchased, ha)? I’m very curious to know if one could replace the steppers on an older unit with qd versions. I mean the firmware is the same now. I don’t know how much different the hardware is. I know the water resistant buttons are an improvement, but curious as to if the rest is the same. I haven’t tried programming an old dos for continuous….something for later on today I guess. Didn’t mean to derail here…..mine dos units are loud enough to bother and I’m not willing to upgrade just for noise….yet.

It’s the same motor but completely different driver. Like Vortech QD. Same hardware, different driver, and boom it’s quiet.

Continuous duty on the old DOS destroys the motors because of the heat generated and they’re also super loud.

 

[fendanto]

Would you mind terribly sharing your configuration screens for your dosers? I’m mostly interested in what the dosing interval configuration looks like as well as any associated programming. This isn’t me snooping for user errors, I’m just looking for data on what a configuration that can fail looks like. Thanks a bunch!

@TARHEEL78 might I request the same from you?

 

[hunterallen40]

Would you mind terribly sharing your configuration screens for your dosers? I’m mostly interested in what the dosing interval configuration looks like as well as any associated programming. This isn’t me snooping for user errors, I’m just looking for data on what a configuration that can fail looks like. Thanks a bunch!

@TARHEEL78 might I request the same from you?

Just your plain old, vanilla configuration. I'm too lazy to customize it very much haha.

Happy to share anything else with everyone.

 

[hunterallen40]

Also wanted to say that I've been chatting with someone from Neptune today, and they are digging into this.

They aren't just hoping it goes away, and they know this thread.

Please add your experiences here if you saw this or similar behaviors! The more information they have they better.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

It’s the same motor but completely different driver. Like Vortech QD. Same hardware, different driver, and boom it’s quiet.

Continuous duty on the old DOS destroys the motors because of the heat generated and they’re also super loud.

Crazy. I would have thought it was a different stepper for sure as it doesn’t matter how small of a dose I go on the ogl….its still loud. Ha. Yeah, I know continuous would probably kill the og but I was just curious if the functionality was there…to the point of being able to swap out and upgrade to qd. Hard to believe that if they are the same motor, that one could overheat and be noisy while the other doesn’t given the same rpm/load/duty cycle but that’s all above my pay grade.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Since you’re the inquisitive techie person that you are……..have you opened up (um, never mind….warranty void if removed, I’ll rephrase that), have you seen the insides of the new qd (definitely not one that you just purchased, ha)? I’m very curious to know if one could replace the steppers on an older unit with qd versions. I mean the firmware is the same now. I don’t know how much different the hardware is. I know the water resistant buttons are an improvement, but curious as to if the rest is the same. I haven’t tried programming an old dos for continuous….something for later on today I guess. Didn’t mean to derail here…..mine dos units are loud enough to bother and I’m not willing to upgrade just for noise….yet.

I have opened it up. And to be clear, this was a gift from aperture, I didn't pay for it.

To answer your question, the improvements made with the QD isn't simply swapping out the stepper motors. It's made possible the hardware and software.

They incorporated the same Trinamic motor driver (TMC5130) that the ecotech versa uses. The stealth chop and/or spread cycle that is internally programmed into those drivers are what provides all the silent motor operation. They simply created a platform that communicates with the driver, I'm assuming they utilized SPI interface but that's just a guess based on the fearures versa taps into with their pump.

Unfortunately you'd have to get the NS proprietary custom PCB with the appropriate software installed to take advantage of the new tech. Plus there are some subtle differences in how the buttons are handled in the software that the old one doesn't have.

Is it possible? Probably. Is it worth it? Probably not.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I have opened it up. And to be clear, this was a gift from aperture, I didn't pay for it.

To answer your question, the improvements made with the QD isn't simply swapping out the stepper motors. It's made possible the hardware and software.

They incorporated the same Trinamic motor driver (TMC5130) that the ecotech versa uses. The stealth chop and/or spread cycle that is internally programmed into those drivers are what provides all the silent motor operation. They simply created a platform that communicates with the driver, I'm assuming they utilized SPI interface but that's just a guess based on the fearures versa taps into with their pump.

Unfortunately you'd have to get the NS proprietary custom PCB with the appropriate software installed to take advantage of the new tech. Plus there are some subtle differences in how the buttons are handled in the software that the old one doesn't have.

Is it possible? Probably. Is it worth it? Probably not.

I had a feeling that I could count on you! Ha. Answers that without a doubt. Thanks for being awesome! Back to suffocating these old boys with pillows, ha

 

[fendanto]

Just your plain old, vanilla configuration. I'm too lazy to customize it very much haha.

Happy to share anything else with everyone.

Fantastic, thank you!

Can you click on the gear next to the scheduling line and take a cap of the “Interval Summary” page as well?

And then what’s on these tabs by navigating here…

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Hard to believe that if they are the same motor, that one could overheat and be noisy while the other doesn’t given the same rpm/load/duty cycle but that’s all above my pay grade.

Because the pump is direct drive, they have to unleash a lot of current to overcome the drag that is the peri tube and outer datum. Which is why they still can't run continuously at certain speeds. The versa on the other hand has a 5:1 drive reduction that allows for a smaller stepper and less heat. The reason why DOS has such a large stepper is because it needs to have all that torque.

 

[fendanto]

I have opened it up. And to be clear, this was a gift from aperture, I didn't pay for it.

To answer your question, the improvements made with the QD isn't simply swapping out the stepper motors. It's made possible the hardware and software.

They incorporated the same Trinamic motor driver (TMC5130) that the ecotech versa uses. The stealth chop and/or spread cycle that is internally programmed into those drivers are what provides all the silent motor operation. They simply created a platform that communicates with the driver, I'm assuming they utilized SPI interface but that's just a guess based on the fearures versa taps into with their pump.

Unfortunately you'd have to get the NS proprietary custom PCB with the appropriate software installed to take advantage of the new tech. Plus there are some subtle differences in how the buttons are handled in the software that the old one doesn't have.

Is it possible? Probably. Is it worth it? Probably not.

Ah, I could’ve figured they went with TMC! It’s pretty surprising the results you can get from swapping over to their drivers. Do you have any pictures of the insides? I’m pretty curious…

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Because the pump is direct drive, they have to unleash a lot of current to overcome the drag that is the peri tube and outer datum. Which is why they still can't run continuously at certain speeds. The versa on the other hand has a 5:1 drive reduction that allows for a smaller stepper and less heat. The reason why DOS has such a large stepper is because it needs to have all that torque.

As always, thanks for the detailed explanation. No ls swap for these. Someday I guess I’ll break down and buy the qd. At least for awc as that’s super loud. Since you’re pretty close in location, you know what I mean by not being able to tell the difference between my awc and f35s on deck at Luke.

 

[hunterallen40]

Fantastic, thank you!

Can you click on the gear next to the scheduling line and take a cap of the “Interval Summary” page as well?

And then what’s on these tabs by navigating here…

I hope you like vanilla .

Any reason you wanted these, or just wanted to compare?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Ah, I could’ve figured they went with TMC! It’s pretty surprising the results you can get from swapping over to their drivers. Do you have any pictures of the insides? I’m pretty curious…

I guess I can share.



Not much to it...

 

[fendanto]

I hope you like vanilla .

Any reason you wanted these, or just wanted to compare?

Thanks again! Mostly just trying to see what sort of similarities there are between machines that failed. Maybe be able to derive something from that. Probably not. I’m a robotics engineer too (and am running a DQD) so this makes my brain itch.

 

[rtparty]

Edit : deleted

 

[hunterallen40]

Thanks again! Mostly just trying to see what sort of similarities there are between machines that failed. Maybe be able to derive something from that. Probably not. I’m a robotics engineer too (and am running a DQD) so this makes my brain itch.

Got it. More than happy to share! Just wanted to make sure you weren't doing any customer support or something, as the folks at neptune are on the job. I completely understand the curiosity, and it has my gears spinning too...

I will continue to keep everyone posted, but again... The more info they have the better.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I didn’t have the dosing issue, but trying to do the update bricked my Apex. I’m still waiting for it to come back. It sounds like that may have been a blessing because I also dose NaOH.

The second blessing was it forced me to look seriously at Hydros for my next tank. Maybe if Neptune had a little better customer service for this issue, some of this money would have been coming to them.

Hopefully they’ll get this nonsense worked out.

People spend $2600 on a controller? ouch!

 

[BZOFIQ]

...



4. There is no programming around this, and there are no workarounds. You cannot have a rule that turns off your doser if the pH / alk spikes.

Couldnt you plug the dos' power supply to one of the outlets and program when ph > to turn it off?

 

[BZOFIQ]

This is terrible either way.

The fact that this still happened after the latest fix to the last firmware is not good.

People will be very careful updating the system going forward.

 

[herozero]

People spend $2600 on a controller? ouch!

The price of 6 $400 scoly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’ll take the insurance/automation personally.

Big big edit: automation has to work though!