How to stop dosing when empty???

[TCoach]

How do you get the doser 2.1 to stop dosing if it thinks the dosing container is empty? I woke up this morning, and my tank used more Kalk than expected and the container was empty, however, the doser was still running. This seems incorrect since the system was reporting 0% available in the container. What do I need to do to have the doser stop when it thinks the container is empty?

Thanks,
-Chris

 

[Dave-T]

You can't. I asked the same question. I use a doser for AWC, which uses one head to add water from my mixing tank and one head to remove water from the system. It's important that it won't try to dose when the mixing tank is empty. So I have to monitor it myself, and make sure the mixing tank does not empty.

 

[Lasse]

I probably have an idea of a work around for this but it means that the pump will stop at any ALARM. Is any still interested of the work around?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[TCoach]

@

I probably have an idea of a work around for this but it means that the pump will stop at any ALARM. Is any still interested of the work around?

Sincerely Lasse

I’m interested.

Thanks!

 

[Dave-T]

I probably have an idea of a work around for this but it means that the pump will stop at any ALARM. Is any still interested of the work around?

Sincerely Lasse

That's exactly what I did. Not a great solution. It means my AWC will not run if I have any alarm at all, even if it's completely unrelated to AWC issues.

 

[Matthias Gross]

do we need an extra setting "stop dosing activities when fill level is empty"?

But I would also like to understand the benefit of that. What would change, the result (no dosing because there is nothing) would still be the same. I think the better approach would be to top up when the warning level is reached and to avoid an empty container, or not?

 

[Dave-T]

Sorry, I said "ATO" above, I meant "AWC". (I've edited my posts above to remove this confusion.)

So in my case, I'm using a maxi doser for water changes. I have one head pulling water from my mixing tank and a second head pulling water from the aquarium. If this continues to run after the mixing tank is empty, then I would still be pulling water from the aquarium but not from the mixing tank. So the aquarium would be emptying, and my ATO would cause the salinity to drop.

It would be great if the AWC would stop if the mixing tank was empty. But I'd also like it to stop if my salinity goes into alarm, in case the two pumps fall out of calibration for some reason. This has happened when the tubing pulling water from my mixing tank got clogged due to sediment in the mixing tank.

 

[kvansloo]

do we need an extra setting "stop dosing activities when fill level is empty"?

But I would also like to understand the benefit of that. What would change, the result (no dosing because there is nothing) would still be the same. I think the better approach would be to top up when the warning level is reached and to avoid an empty container, or not?

I would think that if the tank was empty the pump would stop, since you don't need to pump if there is nothing there. I dose 2 part ocean blend right now not really important in my tank but, sometimes I forget to stop and get more, and the Doser just keeps going till I refill. If it was something that my tank required, I would probably be more on top of it to your point. Maybe I should put level sensors in the jugs and just shut them off that way.

 

[Lasse]

do we need an extra setting "stop dosing activities when fill level is empty"?

But I would also like to understand the benefit of that. What would change, the result (no dosing because there is nothing) would still be the same. I think the better approach would be to top up when the warning level is reached and to avoid an empty container, or not?

For me that hold track on my consumption of both maxi elements (Mg, Ca and alkalinity) and trace elements (I dose 6 - 8 of these) it could be of great help. If it stops because of empty cannister a can backtrack both my real dosing and the time it happens. I have also functions that are linked to dosing pumps - like slowing Wave makers and rise aeration in my skimmer - it is not needed if not a real dose was not done.

In @Dave-T:s case the function needs to be transferred to another dosing pump but that could be solved with help of a virtual pump and PL if it is difficult to program.

Necessary for my use - not - but it would be very conveniently for me with such a function. But it must be possible to switch on or off the function and that the function should not work if level monitoring is not active.

And it also a good thing that avoid unnecessary wear and tear of the pump

Sincerely Lasse

 

[TCoach]

do we need an extra setting "stop dosing activities when fill level is empty"?

But I would also like to understand the benefit of that. What would change, the result (no dosing because there is nothing) would still be the same. I think the better approach would be to top up when the warning level is reached and to avoid an empty container, or not?

Yes, this is needed.

1. Dosing when the system "knows" the reservoir is empty distorts understanding how much was actually dosed.
2. This is potentially a fair amount of wear and tear on my doser head and tube to try and dose something that is empty. Especially in cases like mine where dosing is not on a schedule but based on other criteria.

I dose Kalk based on pH (Chris Meckley from ACI Aquaculture method). I thought I had enough in there for the night, however, I awoke to the doser dosing nothing and reporting the container to be empty (which it was). I was well above the minimum level before bed, so I hit the level and kept dropping while I was sleeping. I would rather the doser head had just stopped dosing at 0% at least (preferably at some % or set ml above empty since you can never get all the fluid out of the dosing containers), than to keep dosing nothing.

From the history, look like I dosed over 1 liter at one point, followed by -2054 ml the next. That was at least 1 hr of fake dosing, and potentially more since that doser head is dosing at 32 ml/min based on my recalibration the other day. However, there is no way to for sure calculate how much was dosed last night.

Anyway, all that said, there needs to be a way to "stop dosing activities when fill level is empty". Honestly, that SHOULD be the default behavior and overdosing is only allowed when enabled on that head.

Hope this makes sense,
-Chris

 

[Herbster]

do we need an extra setting "stop dosing activities when fill level is empty"?

But I would also like to understand the benefit of that. What would change, the result (no dosing because there is nothing) would still be the same. I think the better approach would be to top up when the warning level is reached and to avoid an empty container, or not?

Knowing that something definitely hasn't been dosed is far better than being not sure because the container was empty. The logs will show a dose, but you won't know for how long liquid being dosed or just air!

 

[Lasse]

Configure a virtual pump (its a pump program in the P4 that not is linked to a physical pump) to perform the task you want and with calibration values for your real pump (the one that will do the job)

In my example dosing pump program 32. Do not forget Daymode. Here its also lowest speed and real dosing set to 2ml/min an in continuous mode (kalk stirrer) Shown in GCC - it is easier

EDIT I have Level monitoring active in the first version. It should not be that way! It should be inactive

Create a PL like this (I use gate 1 here)

Knit that to a virtual switch (a switch that do not have a physical outlet connected) In my case 64

Go to your real dosing pump (Dos program 1 in this case)

The important here is to configure here is the container, the same calibration as the virtual (also the real of this pump - 1 in my case) same speed and wanted dose/min as the virtual and most important - that it should react to switch channel 64 red marking

Shown in GCC - it is easier

With this settings - you can change then - this is only an example - the real doser will dose 2 ml/min in continuous mode and when either of the containers is empty - an alarm and when the pump will stop

I have not tested this IRL - do it before you run it sharp

@Gaël FYI it looks like it impossible to activate record dosing in continuous mode

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Gaël]

@Gaël FYI it looks like it impossible to activate record dosing in continuous mode

Sincerely Lasse

Hi,

Activate record dosing in continuous mode is nonsense.

Gaël

 

[Lasse]

Hi,

Activate record dosing in continuous mode is nonsense.

Gaël

OK

and @TCoach - I have Edit the post above - it was not right in the beginning

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeanAnimal]

TO be sure - I would not want "all dosing" to be stopped.

Ideally one would be able to create dependencies. Example - 3 pump Alk/Ca/Mag - if any of the (3) report "empty" then all three do not dose, keeping ions in balance.

Likewise for AWC
If the feed pump reservoir is empty, them the disharge pump does not run, draining the tank wiith no replacement water.

Those are the two prime examples that I can think of.

 

[Lasse]

I would not want "all dosing" to be stopped.

Neither will I - but I want to be able to by my self decide which should stop - in the same way that I can decide individually if a pump should record dosage or not and possible to chose when switch of level monitoring not is active.

Sincerely

 

[BeanAnimal]

Neither will I - but I want to be able to by my self decide which should stop - in the same way that I can decide individually if a pump should record dosage or not and possible to chose when switch of level monitoring not is active.

Sincerely

Yes of course - one should be able to choose what dosing pumps are dependent on other's. I think with a static interface though, it is hard and circular dependencies are even harder to prevent.

It may be that the easiest route would be to add options to programmable logic instead of more options the dosing pump interfaces?

 

[Dave-T]

Having programmable logic able to reference individual alarms seems like the way to go. You may also want to control switch outlets based on certain alarms.