Very poorly Clownfish and just lost Blue Tang, Guppy

[PhilandRach]

Hello All,

Emergency help needed! Can you help identify what is wrong with our larger clownfish and any medication advice (we are in UK)?

Both Clownfish are now in QT for 4 days and not sure how to treat. The smaller Clownfish is ok - they are paired and are always close together.

QT Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Quarantine tank
Aquarium water volume: 20 Litre QT
Filtration type: internal filter (new Aqua one tank) - airpump with airstone, introduced live rock media (small to boost)
Lighting: none - out of direct light
How long has the aquarium been established? QT 4 days

QT Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature 81F
pH: 8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.020 (bit low)
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate - 0, 0, 0
Phosphorus / Copper - dont have tests

In-depth information: (This is written with the power of hindsight as at the time we were struggling to know what to do - LFS was not helpful)
Symptoms: Now in QT. The Clownfish is blind (not sure its relevant - there seems to be a black dot next to its left eye), it cant see food and not eating from what we observe (same for last week at least). Red on gills and gasping, swim is uncontrolled on side as well or swims vertically on the spot. It worrying gets tired and lies on ground only gills moving for long periods. The video and photos are all from today.

Video 1 - Swim Veritcal Clownfish
Video 2 - Close Up Clownfish

Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Yes, See at botton for DT parameters. But the headlines on issues are:

• We have a 1.5 year old 220 litre Marine Aquarium with no issues that has deteriorated very badly over the last 2 months. No new introductions for previous 6 months (introduced cleaner shrimps and hermit crabs).
• About 2-3 months ago we start to get aggressive / large algae bloom spikes. We got concerned after the Guppy started behaving unusually but eating and the Blue Tang was becoming stressed loosing colour / hiding but eating. Bought a Tetra NO3 test and all tests were good (Amonia, KH, PH, Salinity and NO2 ) except NO3 was off the chart. This was the only obvious event to us that was unusual.
• No QT at this point unfortunately, so we focused on DT NO3 levels and swim bladder medication (LFS advice). I know the articles say NO3 is not an issue in Marine, but after 3 x 20% and 3 x 10% water changes NO3 was still 100mg/l + so it must be super high. We have since cleaned out all sand, clean filter canisters regularly and put wave machine in. We are still yet to get it below 100 - just found API test gives up to 160 so will test when it arrives. The invertebrates have the tank to themselves whilst we work on NO3.
• Unfortunately we lost the Guppy and Dory a week back - so we worried its not NO3. Gubby had same behaviour as clownfish before it died.
• We had no QT, so took time to learn and set one up for first time - The Hospital / QT is daunting and worried we would kill them moving over

Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish: Fish is gasping mouth open all time and gills working overtime
Are the affected fish still feeding? No
What remedies have you tried so far? eSHa OODINEX Wide Range Marine Treatment 3 days - no change. Just started Myxazin 1 day.

DT Aquarium Parameters (No fish in here now - but where issue started):
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Main DT
Aquarium water volume 220 Litre
Filtration type: established tank live rock,
Lighting: LED lighting (low and night cycle). prone to bright day light in mid summer
How long has the aquarium been established? 1.5 years

photo from April (when fish were happy)

DT Water quality
Temperature 80F
pH: 8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.025
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 (API), Nitrate 100mg/l (Tetra)
Phosphorus / Copper not tested

Thanks so much for any help.

Phil

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello All,

Emergency help needed! Can you help identify what is wrong with our larger clownfish and any medication advice (we are in UK)?

Both Clownfish are now in QT for 4 days and not sure how to treat. The smaller Clownfish is ok - they are paired and are always close together.

QT Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Quarantine tank
Aquarium water volume: 20 Litre QT
Filtration type: internal filter (new Aqua one tank) - airpump with airstone, introduced live rock media (small to boost)
Lighting: none - out of direct light
How long has the aquarium been established? QT 4 days

QT Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature 81F
pH: 8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.020 (bit low)
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate - 0, 0, 0
Phosphorus / Copper - dont have tests

In-depth information: (This is written with the power of hindsight as at the time we were struggling to know what to do - LFS was not helpful)
Symptoms: Now in QT. The Clownfish is blind (not sure its relevant - there seems to be a black dot next to its left eye), it cant see food and not eating from what we observe (same for last week at least). Red on gills and gasping, swim is uncontrolled on side as well or swims vertically on the spot. It worrying gets tired and lies on ground only gills moving for long periods. The video and photos are all from today.

Video 1 - Swim Veritcal Clownfish
Video 2 - Close Up Clownfish

Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Yes, See at botton for DT parameters. But the headlines on issues are:

• We have a 1.5 year old 220 litre Marine Aquarium with no issues that has deteriorated very badly over the last 2 months. No new introductions for previous 6 months (introduced cleaner shrimps and hermit crabs).
• About 2-3 months ago we start to get aggressive / large algae bloom spikes. We got concerned after the Guppy started behaving unusually but eating and the Blue Tang was becoming stressed loosing colour / hiding but eating. Bought a Tetra NO3 test and all tests were good (Amonia, KH, PH, Salinity and NO2 ) except NO3 was off the chart. This was the only obvious event to us that was unusual.
• No QT at this point unfortunately, so we focused on DT NO3 levels and swim bladder medication (LFS advice). I know the articles say NO3 is not an issue in Marine, but after 3 x 20% and 3 x 10% water changes NO3 was still 100mg/l + so it must be super high. We have since cleaned out all sand, clean filter canisters regularly and put wave machine in. We are still yet to get it below 100 - just found API test gives up to 160 so will test when it arrives. The invertebrates have the tank to themselves whilst we work on NO3.
• Unfortunately we lost the Guppy and Dory a week back - so we worried its not NO3. Gubby had same behaviour as clownfish before it died.
• We had no QT, so took time to learn and set one up for first time - The Hospital / QT is daunting and worried we would kill them moving over

Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish: Fish is gasping mouth open all time and gills working overtime
Are the affected fish still feeding? No
What remedies have you tried so far? eSHa OODINEX Wide Range Marine Treatment 3 days - no change. Just started Myxazin 1 day.

DT Aquarium Parameters (No fish in here now - but where issue started):
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Main DT
Aquarium water volume 220 Litre
Filtration type: established tank live rock,
Lighting: LED lighting (low and night cycle). prone to bright day light in mid summer
How long has the aquarium been established? 1.5 years

photo from April (when fish were happy)

DT Water quality
Temperature 80F
pH: 8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.025
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 (API), Nitrate 100mg/l (Tetra)
Phosphorus / Copper not tested

Thanks so much for any help.

Phil

Clown has a bad bacterial issue and possible brooklynella.
Tank is pretty but full of plastic and may be impacting water quality and has potential to cause injury with sharp edges on plants.
How are you testing water?
The bright daylight im surprised not causing issues with algae however may be heating up temperature each day from exposure.
What is age of display tank and are you using any tap water for mixing salt or tank top off ?

 

[PhilandRach]

Thanks for the quick response.

On the DT side, its been set up for 1.5 years. We think the sun light was the cause of the algae spike in summer. We've also have now removed the plastic when the algae bloomed in the tank in June (too hard to clean). The tank has only the rocks and coral sand for the last 3 months.

We use either Tetra or API specific test kits (not strips) for NO2,NO3, KH, PH, Ammonia and chlorine.

The salt water we pick up from the LFS pre-mixed. We tested that as well once the issues started. All looked good.

If its very bad bacterial, what treatment do you recommend?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello All,

Emergency help needed! Can you help identify what is wrong with our larger clownfish and any medication advice (we are in UK)?

Both Clownfish are now in QT for 4 days and not sure how to treat. The smaller Clownfish is ok - they are paired and are always close together.

QT Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Quarantine tank
Aquarium water volume: 20 Litre QT
Filtration type: internal filter (new Aqua one tank) - airpump with airstone, introduced live rock media (small to boost)
Lighting: none - out of direct light
How long has the aquarium been established? QT 4 days

QT Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using, as well as the test kit brand)
Temperature 81F
pH: 8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.020 (bit low)
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate - 0, 0, 0
Phosphorus / Copper - dont have tests

In-depth information: (This is written with the power of hindsight as at the time we were struggling to know what to do - LFS was not helpful)
Symptoms: Now in QT. The Clownfish is blind (not sure its relevant - there seems to be a black dot next to its left eye), it cant see food and not eating from what we observe (same for last week at least). Red on gills and gasping, swim is uncontrolled on side as well or swims vertically on the spot. It worrying gets tired and lies on ground only gills moving for long periods. The video and photos are all from today.

Video 1 - Swim Veritcal Clownfish
Video 2 - Close Up Clownfish

Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? Yes, See at botton for DT parameters. But the headlines on issues are:

• We have a 1.5 year old 220 litre Marine Aquarium with no issues that has deteriorated very badly over the last 2 months. No new introductions for previous 6 months (introduced cleaner shrimps and hermit crabs).
• About 2-3 months ago we start to get aggressive / large algae bloom spikes. We got concerned after the Guppy started behaving unusually but eating and the Blue Tang was becoming stressed loosing colour / hiding but eating. Bought a Tetra NO3 test and all tests were good (Amonia, KH, PH, Salinity and NO2 ) except NO3 was off the chart. This was the only obvious event to us that was unusual.
• No QT at this point unfortunately, so we focused on DT NO3 levels and swim bladder medication (LFS advice). I know the articles say NO3 is not an issue in Marine, but after 3 x 20% and 3 x 10% water changes NO3 was still 100mg/l + so it must be super high. We have since cleaned out all sand, clean filter canisters regularly and put wave machine in. We are still yet to get it below 100 - just found API test gives up to 160 so will test when it arrives. The invertebrates have the tank to themselves whilst we work on NO3.
• Unfortunately we lost the Guppy and Dory a week back - so we worried its not NO3. Gubby had same behaviour as clownfish before it died.
• We had no QT, so took time to learn and set one up for first time - The Hospital / QT is daunting and worried we would kill them moving over

Are any invertebrates affected? No
Respiration rate of affected fish: Fish is gasping mouth open all time and gills working overtime
Are the affected fish still feeding? No
What remedies have you tried so far? eSHa OODINEX Wide Range Marine Treatment 3 days - no change. Just started Myxazin 1 day.

DT Aquarium Parameters (No fish in here now - but where issue started):
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Main DT
Aquarium water volume 220 Litre
Filtration type: established tank live rock,
Lighting: LED lighting (low and night cycle). prone to bright day light in mid summer
How long has the aquarium been established? 1.5 years

photo from April (when fish were happy)

DT Water quality
Temperature 80F
pH: 8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.025
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 (API), Nitrate 100mg/l (Tetra)
Phosphorus / Copper not tested

Thanks so much for any help.

Phil

I'm struggling to follow the history here:

You lost two fish last week, did they have the same or similar symptoms?
What is a "guppy"?
Were the clownfish in your main tank during that time and were then moved to the treatment tank?

Esha Oodinex contains:
Ethacridine Lactate: 4.8 mg per ml
Proflavine: 0.7 mg per ml
Malachite Green: 3.45 mg per ml
Methylene Blue: 0.14 mg per ml

These compounds all have a history of being used to control fish diseases, HOWEVER at least three of them are toxic to invertebrates at normal treatment levels. Therefore, their dosage is reduced to make them safe for invertebrates, but that also makes them less effective against the parasites.

 

[PhilandRach]

good point, was in a rush to send it out.

Guppy should have typed Gobie(blue cheeked). This had same/similar symptoms as the clownfish. The Blue Tang was less easy to see any symptoms other than it stopped eating, lost colour and hid away in the rocks most of the time.

I gave the treatment in the QT so no Invertebrates now, Does it mean that that medication is not strong enough?

Any recommendations?

Thanks for your help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the quick response.

On the DT side, its been set up for 1.5 years. We think the sun light was the cause of the algae spike in summer. We've also have now removed the plastic when the algae bloomed in the tank in June (too hard to clean). The tank has only the rocks and coral sand for the last 3 months.

We use either Tetra or API specific test kits (not strips) for NO2,NO3, KH, PH, Ammonia and chlorine.

The salt water we pick up from the LFS pre-mixed. We tested that as well once the issues started. All looked good.

If its very bad bacterial, what treatment do you recommend?

I question the accuracy of test readings as well as the premixed water purchased which should be tested to confirm no issues which can occur even without knowledge of LFS.
For UK, NT Labs acriflavine will work as will Waterlife Myxazin

 

[PhilandRach]

I question the accuracy of test readings as well as the premixed water purchased which should be tested to confirm no issues which can occur even without knowledge of LFS.
For UK, NT Labs acriflavine will work as will Waterlife Myxazin

I have the Myxazin so will use that for the bacterial treatment. Anything you recommend I do with the QT / other treatments to do?

When the issue started we questioned the LFS premixed water as a cause (from reading other articles) All the big water changes and ongoing we now pre-test all water changes for NO3 / NO2 and Chlorine(using the Tetra dip test only). Anything else we should test?

I was worried we were getting bad readings on the DT tests so took sample to the LFS and they got the same results - all ok on key tests and NO3 off the scale. On the testing what is your recommendation?
Currently we use:
NO2, NO3 - Tetra individual test kits (I do have the API ones but sticking to tetra as the benchmark)
KH, PH, Amonia - API individual test kits
Chlorine - Tetra dip test.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have the Myxazin so will use that for the bacterial treatment. Anything you recommend I do with the QT / other treatments to do?

When the issue started we questioned the LFS premixed water as a cause (from reading other articles) All the big water changes and ongoing we now pre-test all water changes for NO3 / NO2 and Chlorine(using the Tetra dip test only). Anything else we should test?

I was worried we were getting bad readings on the DT tests so took sample to the LFS and they got the same results - all ok on key tests and NO3 off the scale. On the testing what is your recommendation?
Currently we use:
NO2, NO3 - Tetra individual test kits (I do have the API ones but sticking to tetra as the benchmark)
KH, PH, Amonia - API individual test kits
Chlorine - Tetra dip test.

Focus on water quality and keep fish eating.
Testing : Salifert and Hanna brand
If LFS is using same API brand, wont help much for comparisons

 

[PhilandRach]

Focus on water quality and keep fish eating.
Testing : Salifert and Hanna brand
If LFS is using same API brand, wont help much for comparisons

Thanks for the help - will see how the treatment goes. The Clownfish is not eating and cant see. I guess the treatment has to start working first.

 

[PhilandRach]

Thanks for the help - will see how the treatment goes. The Clownfish is not eating and cant see. I guess the treatment has to start working first.

Just checking back in on progress. 7 days in QT and the fish is still alive and I think the medicine had a positive impact with the fish swimming better and moving around. It's still unwell for sure though as it hasn't eaten at all - it cant see and doesn't respond to the food dropped near/at its mouth. The smaller Clown fish eats very well.

I include 2 new photos from today. Note there seems to be a discolouration/dark mark on its bottom.

It continues to rest awkwardly on the bottom of the tankperiodically. The other clown fish backs up gently waving its tail to get the ill fish moving when I do the feed.

I am at the end of the 5 day dose for Mxyazin - do I continue the dosing?

Any suggestions on what to do next?