Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[jda]

I don’t see a match on the ftir could you explain to me how it matches?

If anybody responds to this beyond "go and read for yourself" then I think that I might explode. Dr. RHF took the time on a post to explain light absorbed or getting through IRs, taricha took the time to overlay graphs and all of that. ...but we have to lay it out again?

Even a link to the posts is probably hand-holding a bit too much for me.

Let me be the first one, and feel free to copy and paste this: It is all in the thread. Go and read it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t see a match on the ftir could you explain to me how it matches?

Read post 1058 and the following few posts to see that the IR's match.

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Agreed on the wariness in interpretation. At best, this scenario may only be plausible in other reefs with high organics that also don't run GAC and don't do many water changes. Once I run my tank water through GAC, it both removes this detectable material, and drops the sensitivity to new...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Around post 717, Courtney and I discuss that IR is a standard identity test for amine polymers:

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Not sure what you mean. There's no such thing as interference or masking of dissolved molecules like these in an NMR. If they are present, they show up, and if not, they do not. Can't poor water suppression cause interference in proton NMR? Mostly I'm mostly wondering about how sample...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[sixty_reefer]

Read post 1058 and the following few posts to see that the IR's match.

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Agreed on the wariness in interpretation. At best, this scenario may only be plausible in other reefs with high organics that also don't run GAC and don't do many water changes. Once I run my tank water through GAC, it both removes this detectable material, and drops the sensitivity to new...

www.reef2reef.com

I only see a match from Jda vibrant to taricha vibrant, I don’t see a post matching the ftir to busan 77 or to algaefix the peaks between algaefix and vibrant seem different to the untrained eye and also don’t match. I apologise if I missed a post or was Jda ir from a busan 77 sample. it’s not labelled?

 

[sixty_reefer]

If anybody responds to this beyond "go and read for yourself" then I think that I might explode. Dr. RHF took the time on a post to explain light absorbed or getting through IRs, taricha took the time to overlay graphs and all of that. ...but we have to lay it out again?

Even a link to the posts is probably hand-holding a bit too much for me.

Let me be the first one, and feel free to copy and paste this: It is all in the thread. Go and read it.

We’re did you get the busan 77 sample from?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I only see a match from Jda vibrant to taricha vibrant, I don’t see a post matching the ftir to busan 77 or to algaefix the peaks between algaefix and vibrant seem different to the untrained eye and also don’t match. I apologise if I missed a post or was Jda ir from a busan 77 sample. it’s not labelled?

The very first post of this thread shows the IR for algaefix and Vibrant on a single graph. They match. They also match the Busan 77 IR from the literature.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

We’re did you get the busan 77 sample from?

What are you talking about?

THE MATCH IS ALGAEFIX TO VIBRANT.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The very first post of this thread shows the IR for algaefix and Vibrant on a single graph. They match. They also match the Busan 77 IR.

Is that the one provided by Jda?

 

[sixty_reefer]

What are you talking about?

THE MATCH IS ALGAEFIX TO VIBRANT.

They have different peaks how is that a match?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is that the one provided by Jda?

My patience is running out. You seem to intentionally be confounding things.

1. taricha match the IR (and NMR and several others things) between Vibrant and Algaefix (which has known composition).

2. LATER, JDA repeated the IR and NMR experiments for Vibrant and matched exactly what taricha got.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

They have different peaks how is that a match?

What peaks do you see in one that are not present in the other?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Remember, these are the two that are being matched by taricha (algaefix (blue) and vibrant(red)):

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here are all three (taricha vibrant and algaefix, and JDA vibrant). They match.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What peaks do you see in one that are not present in the other?

Am referring to this chart we’re algaefix and vibrant are side by side, in addition I was looking at charts from Roseobacticide this afternoon that seem to have a similar transmittance to algaefix and vibrant.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Am referring to this chart we’re algaefix and vibrant are side by side, in addition I was looking at charts from Roseobacticide this afternoon that seem to have a similar transmittance to algaefix and vibrant.

Those spectra match as far as I can tell. What peaks look to you to not match?

Roseobacticide (a very different molecule) should have a different spectrum, but I do not see one on line.

Some of the peaks will match, of course, since that is how IR works, but not all of them.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Those spectra match as far as I can tell. What peaks look to you to not match?

Roseobacticide (a very different molecule) should have a different spectrum, but I do not see one on line.

Some of the peaks will match, of course, since that is how IR works, but not all of them.

To me I only see vibrant matching with vibrant, the algaefix seems low and different peaks. I didn’t save the ftir from roseobacticide as I didn’t wanted to get involved further in the discussion although the peaks are very similar if not identical, and there’s a few articles online that will demonstrate that you can harvest roseobacticide from bacteria.

 

[sixty_reefer]

If anybody responds to this beyond "go and read for yourself" then I think that I might explode. Dr. RHF took the time on a post to explain light absorbed or getting through IRs, taricha took the time to overlay graphs and all of that. ...but we have to lay it out again?

Even a link to the posts is probably hand-holding a bit too much for me.

Let me be the first one, and feel free to copy and paste this: It is all in the thread. Go and read it.

Nice, hopefully your research is solid and you don’t have any reason to be concerned with the accusations you have made with little research to stand by you.

 

[jda]

Randy, you are such an enabler. Feel free to like this post since nobody will be able to misunderstand the meaning. In all honesty, I appreciate you trying to help people even if they are not capable of helping themselves. You ever wonder what the point is... even a little bit sometimes? I am starting to get there...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To me I only see vibrant matching with vibrant, the algaefix seems low and different peaks. I didn’t save the ftir from roseobacticide as I didn’t wanted to get involved further in the discussion although the peaks are very similar if not identical, and there’s a few articles online that will demonstrate that you can harvest roseobacticide from bacteria.

Before saying they do not match, please read my post that I linked for you so that you can have a minimal understanding of how to match an IR. Absolute peak intensity is meaningless. Relative peak sizes within a spectrum, and location of each peak are what's important, and they match.

There is no possibility of the material in Vibrant being roseobacticide. NONE. The NMR will be totally different, and I expect the FTIR is also totally different. To your untrained eye, of course, some parts will look similar because both molecules have some of the same chemical moieties, such as C-C and C-O and C-H bonds. But they will not match in all peaks, especially in the 500-1600 cm-1 range. That region is called the fingerprint region because it is specific to a structure.

 

[drawman]

The Vibrant Saga continues!

Thank you for this!