To dip or not to dip ... the insecticide trend

reeffirstaid

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While browsing forums, it doesn’t take long, till you realize that reef keepers are dabbling with products, never meant for the marine aquarium. My initial reaction is a knee jerk, “Wow, this is bad!†Then, I take a few moments, reminding myself that it’s this type of experimentation, which led to the bevy of products formulated for our reefs, which help tackle some of the major challenges reefers face. The most recent trend I’ve noticed, the use of insecticides as coral dips. Now I could probably write an entire small book about why this is different than say, using baking soda to adjust alkalinity. For many, the negative implications are obvious, and perhaps for some, the benefits of insecticide dipping outweigh the risks. I am going to breakdown a few reasons why this is a bad idea, and suggest a solution, for aquarists who want their corals of pests, at a moment’s notice and with products readily available.

How reef products are made:

Several years I was working on an article for publisher Bow Tie Inc. They publish Aquarium Fish International, and several aquarium industry insider magazines. The purpose of the article was to find the flagship product, from several aquarium product companies. To do this, I interviewed a variety of chemists, all working for companies we know and love, such as Red Sea, Seachem and API.

The products we purchase for use in reef aquariums, typically aren’t created by a home aquarist, dabbling around, even if their intentions are good. All of these companies employ marine biologists, bio-chemists, micro-biologists, etc. Needless to say, these folks understand chemistry and how it applies to reef organisms. When a product hits the shelf, it’s undergone rigorous testing, both in a lab and in a reef aquarium. Sure, hobbyists may be able to build a great protein skimmer, aquarium, or overflow box, but when it comes to chemistry, and how various compounds effect marine life; that is best left to the experts.

The reason these products are so expensive, is because chemists and biologists, often don’t work for cheap. My point is simple, reef specific products are created by professionals, and tested by professionals. Often something that is used in say, drinking water filtration, is picked up by reef aquarium scientists, and tweaked to become a tool for reef aquarists.

During my series of interviews for Bow Tie Inc., I learned that many of the aquarium products we love, such as Bio Chem Zorb by API, are created after years of research, trial and error, and experimentation by skilled scientists. These experts have access to tools, which even an advanced aquarist wouldn’t have a clue how to operate. Typically, these companies are approached by a public aquarium, who is trying to solve a specific problem, and requires a new product that can perform under the rigorous conditions presented with keeping a large number of challenging species.

This deep level of commitment and science, is found in everything from specialty blend phosphate removers, on down to reef aquarium specific foods. Yes, there are products that perform well, created by hobbyists through experimentation. Most of the time, they don’t risk dabbling with the poisons found in insecticide.

cGMP-Manufacturing_image_11.jpg

Products for reef aquariums are developed in a lab environment, often using the same precautions implemented by the pharmaceutical industry

The risks:

Coral is one of the most sensitive life forms on planet Earth. Over millions of years, they have adapted to nutrient free water conditions. Corals accept zoxanthalle algae into their tissues, which expedites growth, in nutrient free environments. When we place them in the aquarium, already we are taking risks. First, they won’t be exposed to natural sunlight. A closed system cannot reproduce the natural flow cycles of the ocean, and pests that wouldn’t be of much concern on the wild reef, where the food chain is operating full swing, can decimate captive coral colonies. It’s only natural that as aquarists, we would want to take precautions.
When you dip a coral into insecticide, you really aren’t sure what you’re getting. Insecticides are formulated with a variety of chemicals, all aimed at killing pests that infect our yards, homes, or ornamental plants. While dedicated science often goes into the creation of insecticides, the thought of a coral reef never entered the minds of the people working to create it. Furthermore, we know the use of fertilizers, insecticides and other products, has had a detrimental effect on coral reefs and marine ecosystems worldwide. This alone is a major red flag.

Short term risks are obvious, rapid tissue narcosis, stunted growth, tissues recession, etc. Though, for me, it’s the long term risks, that are really scary, mainly because they remain unknown. We don’t know how long people have been dipping corals in insecticide, and we don’t know what the outcome, for a dipped colony may be, in say five years. Does the coral absorb some of the poison? Can this somehow be released into the aquarium? Will fish or invertebrates that feed off the coral ingest it? These questions remain largely unanswered, simply because we don’t have enough information, enough hard scientific research, to answer them. Corals are still, in many ways, a biological mystery. It was only several years ago, that scientists learned how coral animals acquire zoxanthellae algae. So for me, the biggest risk, the scariest factor of using insecticide to dip corals, is the unknown.

In search of answers to the long term effects of using insecticide to dip corals, I contacted my friend Natascia Tamburello, a reef scientist. She told me, that even today, scientists are working to understand what chemicals and commonly used compounds, effect coral reefs, in an effort to understand why reef degradation is taking place around the world. While environmental factors, such as ocean warming and acidification play a large role, there is a large body of unknowns, when it comes to understanding how common chemicals effect coral reefs. We know corals form a symbiotic relationship with zoxanthellae algae, but we don’t know what role different strains of bacteria may play. Also, we don’t fully understand how an insecticide might effect a coral’s natural physiological functions, such as generating slime to remove unwanted debris. Some species of corals may possibly consume some poison, from an insecticide, later expelling it into aquarium water. On natural reefs, island runoff laden with traces of insecticide from farming, has decimated reef systems.

070918_lab_hmed_10a.grid-6x2.jpg

Reef scientists use underwater, "fish bowl" labs, to study the health of coral reefs

The benefits:

The only benefit I can imagine, is a cheap and readily available way to treat our corals of unwanted pests. Reality is that coral dips exist, they are expensive, and depending on where you are located, may be difficult to get. Running to your local Home Depot, and grabbing a bottle of Bayer Advanced, is an easier solution to dealing with reef pests, then say ordering a $ 30 or 40 dollar bottle of Brightwell Aquatics Coral RX, and waiting for several days until it arrives. Sometimes in the reef aquarium hobby, we are in a pinch, and watching red bugs crawl across your prize acropora colony is tough, not having a dip on hand to kill them, is a nightmare. The prospect of waiting two, or three days for a shipment of coral dip, sometimes seems like the worst option. Though, before tossing your beloved colony into a container of insecticide, a full evaluation of the situation might be a better approach.

0068707300270_500X500.jpg

It works great in the garden, but in your reef aquarium?

Your coral is sick, you don’t have a dip, now what?

The scenario I described above, is a reality. Even if we purchase corals from the best vendors, under the strictest circumstances, occasionally we get a specimen, infected with one of the plethora of coral pests. The easiest answer to the above question is simply, keep coral dip on hand. Though, in the real world, it seems like there is always a time, when what you need, isn't close at hand. When we consider that copepods and amphipods, along with crabs and shrimp, come from a scientific family that includes insects, it’s easy to see why an insecticide might be a good choice, for combating pests. The reality is, the biological functions that make up a terrestrial insect, are different from the biological functions that make up one of the many coral pests. All of this includes the fact, that long term, we have no clue how this effects corals, or the zoxanthellae algae in their tissues.

We know that iodine is a natural element in sea water. We also know that corals and other invertebrates use iodine to heal damaged tissue, and aid in the production of new skeleton. Mammals use iodine in the case of an injury, to kill bacteria that could cause an infection. Iodine, at the proper concentration kills coral pests, and doesn't harm the coral. Since most of the coral dips on the market, are basically high concentrations of iodine, it seems like a natural fit.

The iodine concentration in your aquarium, should be close to natural sea water levels, around .06 ppm. When testing a coral dip, using Brightwell Aquatics Coral RX, iodine concentrations are around .18 ppm. Using over the counter iodine from a local pharmacy, an iodine test kit, and one gallon of tank water, this dip environment is easily created. Allowing an SPS coral to soak, for roughly 10-12 minutes, and an LPS coral to soak for 7 minutes, works as a successful way to dip corals. While it may not kill all pests with one dip, it can be repeated, daily, if needed, until the coral is all clear. Also, I have found most coral species will tolerate an iodine concentration of around .24 ppm, without any long term ill effects.

This method has been used for many years, and we know that done correctly, iodine dipping doesn't damage coral tissue, or symbiotic zooxanthellae algae, and it doesn't appear to harm the physiological workings of the coral animal.



Final Thought:

Progress has been the engine of the reef aquarium hobby, since its inception. Progress is a wonderful thing, and in the hobby, we have LED lighting, improved circulation pumps, controllers and cameras, and a host of others, all made up of a progressive movement, integrating technology with reef aquariums. While it would seem like experimenting with insecticide, as a coral dip, would be a branch on the tree of progress, it may be the other way around. It has taken reef scientists, and aquarists, decades to arrive at the understanding we have now, about corals both in the wild and in the aquarium. To me, it seems like putting corals in an environment, that ecologically, has been shown to expedite their demise, is a step backwards.
 

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evolved

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First, it should never be a matter of "to dip or not to dip", but rather "what to dip in". Not dipping ALL corals is playing pest Russian roulette.

I understand your concern and your point, however Bayer's usage as a coral dip has been very popular for the last several years. Sure, there have been a few bad instances reported for those who have not followed the dip instructions correctly (namely, insufficient rinsing before placement into the tank), but I am yet to hear of any complete system failure from the usage of Bayer as a coral dip. And considering it's popularity, than if this was truly a risk it should have happened by now. I will also point out the known issue about insufficient rinsing, is not uncommon to actual coral dips, especially RPS All Out.

I must assume you have never dealt with AEFW. Once you have, you can appreciate the value, power, and the novelty in using a product such as Bayer insecticide as an effective coral dip.

Lastly, consider one the of the greatest in-tank treatments of all time was never intended to be a product which was to be used in a reef tank either - Interceptor. It's applicability and effectiveness on red bugs plaguing Acropora came to be by those seeking a solution fueled by a bit of scientific thought; just as Bayer came to be.


I'll leave you with a challange: acquire a healthy frag of ORA Hawkins which is large enough to be split in two. Dip one half in Coral RX Pro, and dip the other half in Bayer. Of course, follow the printed/known instructructions for both dips. Now wait two days or less, and post the result of which frag is still alive... :)

My real point is - no dip is perfect and universal. Even those which came to be by the "experts".
 
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kireek

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I really enjoyed your article.The piece about the iodine will be especially helpful to me.I will be sure to buy a test kit asap.Thanks for the good read.
 

b_rad_G

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Very well written. I appreciate the time you took to write this article.

As stated above not all dips are equal and each has its own drawbacks. I personally feel as Bayer being the most effective against pests. I have a bottle of coral RX and I use it but if I have a known pest problem I will use Bayer. I have had a single colony of acro that was struggling for some time with lack of polyp extent ion and stn from the base. I dipped it in Bayer and increased flow allowing the coral to make a very fast recovery.

You are completely correct in that we have no idea of the long term problems that could be caused from this. Multiple uses or inadequate rinsing could led to long term problems.

If pest are present rtn and stn will occur anyways. I can't say Bayer is good for corals but its much better than the alternative of letting pest munch our prized possession.
 

DGee

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First, it should never be a matter of "to dip or not to dip", but rather "what to dip in". Not dipping ALL corals is playing pest Russian roulette.

I understand your concern and your point, however Bayer's usage as a coral dip has been very popular for the last several years. Sure, there have been a few bad instances reported for those who have not followed the dip instructions correctly (namely, insufficient rinsing before placement into the tank), but I am yet to hear of any complete system failure from the usage of Bayer as a coral dip. And considering it's popularity, than if this was truly a risk it should have happened by now. I will also point out the known issue about insufficient rinsing, is not uncommon to actual coral dips, especially RPS All Out.

I must assume you have never dealt with AEFW. Once you have, you can appreciate the value, power, and the novelty in using a product such as Bayer insecticide as an effective coral dip.

Lastly, consider one the of the greatest in-tank treatments of all time was never intended to be a product which was to be used in a reef tank either - Interceptor. It's applicability and effectiveness on red bugs plaguing Acropora came to be by those seeking a solution fueled by a bit of scientific thought; just as Bayer came to be.


I'll leave you with a challange: acquire a healthy frag of ORA Hawkins which is large enough to be split in two. Dip one half in Coral RX Pro, and dip the other half in Bayer. Of course, follow the printed/known instructructions for both dips. Now wait two days or less, and post the result of which frag is still alive... :)

My real point is - no dip is perfect and universal. Even those which came to be by the "experts".

My thoughts exactly!
 

turbo21

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First, it should never be a matter of "to dip or not to dip", but rather "what to dip in". Not dipping ALL corals is playing pest Russian roulette.

I understand your concern and your point, however Bayer's usage as a coral dip has been very popular for the last several years. Sure, there have been a few bad instances reported for those who have not followed the dip instructions correctly (namely, insufficient rinsing before placement into the tank), but I am yet to hear of any complete system failure from the usage of Bayer as a coral dip. And considering it's popularity, than if this was truly a risk it should have happened by now. I will also point out the known issue about insufficient rinsing, is not uncommon to actual coral dips, especially RPS All Out.

I must assume you have never dealt with AEFW. Once you have, you can appreciate the value, power, and the novelty in using a product such as Bayer insecticide as an effective coral dip.

Lastly, consider one the of the greatest in-tank treatments of all time was never intended to be a product which was to be used in a reef tank either - Interceptor. It's applicability and effectiveness on red bugs plaguing Acropora came to be by those seeking a solution fueled by a bit of scientific thought; just as Bayer came to be.


I'll leave you with a challange: acquire a healthy frag of ORA Hawkins which is large enough to be split in two. Dip one half in Coral RX Pro, and dip the other half in Bayer. Of course, follow the printed/known instructructions for both dips. Now wait two days or less, and post the result of which frag is still alive... :)

My real point is - no dip is perfect and universal. Even those which came to be by the "experts".


+ 2
The main reason hobbyists had to experiment on their own is because the so called high paid reef chemist can't figure out a dip that truly kills aefw


None of the commercially available
dips that I have tried have killed aefw where bayer knocks out always
 

turbo21

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+ 2
The main reason hobbyists had to experiment on their own is because the so called high paid reef chemist can't figure out a dip that truly kills aefw


None of the commercially available
dips that I have tried have killed aefw where bayer knocks out always

And I believe bayer was first brought up in 2010-2011. So as an early adopter. I can confidently say they are no long term effects.
 

ritter6788

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Agreed with what evolved posted above. I also question that all the commercial reef products on the market are created by scientists and go through years of rigorous lab tests before they hit the market.
 
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reeffirstaid

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ritter,

For the most part, reef aquarium products are created in the lab, and receive a tremendous amount of testing. I know this for a fact, as I interviewed API and Red Sea's product directors. In API's case, he was a bio-chemist, Red Sea's was a microbiologist. Does that mean that every single product for reef aquariums are created this way ... no, some are literally something that someone thought up at home and experimented with, and it's usually easy to identify those products.

I'm not really pro or against dipping corals in Bayer Advanced, or any other insecticide. I've never dealt with Acropora eating flatworms personally. I do know, that on the ecology side of things, insecticide runoff has been devastating for tracts of coral reef worldwide. Using iodine to dip corals isn't a quick fix, and typically takes multiple dips before you see good results. Iodine is a naturally occurring element in seawater, which doesn't physiologically harm corals.

Dipping corals in Bayer Advanced may do nothing to harm them, and work as the best known coral dip on Earth. The reality is, we don't know because there has been no definite experimentation done, or replaceable test created, to monitor the effects of dipping corals in insecticide. It's just hard for me to believe, with all the companies making products for reef aquariums, that if Bayer Advanced works so well, and is safe, why haven't we seen a product like it marketed as a coral dip.

Even if Bayer has been used as a coral dip since 2010-2011, I would still say we don't know the long term results. 3 or 4 years isn't really enough time, to know all the possible outcomes of dipping in Bayer advanced.
 

turbo21

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ritter,

For the most part, reef aquarium products are created in the lab, and receive a tremendous amount of testing. I know this for a fact, as I interviewed API and Red Sea's product directors. In API's case, he was a bio-chemist, Red Sea's was a microbiologist. Does that mean that every single product for reef aquariums are created this way ... no, some are literally something that someone thought up at home and experimented with, and it's usually easy to identify those products.

I'm not really pro or against dipping corals in Bayer Advanced, or any other insecticide. I've never dealt with Acropora eating flatworms personally. I do know, that on the ecology side of things, insecticide runoff has been devastating for tracts of coral reef worldwide. Using iodine to dip corals isn't a quick fix, and typically takes multiple dips before you see good results. Iodine is a naturally occurring element in seawater, which doesn't physiologically harm corals.

Dipping corals in Bayer Advanced may do nothing to harm them, and work as the best known coral dip on Earth. The reality is, we don't know because there has been no definite experimentation done, or replaceable test created, to monitor the effects of dipping corals in insecticide. It's just hard for me to believe, with all the companies making products for reef aquariums, that if Bayer Advanced works so well, and is safe, why haven't we seen a product like it marketed as a coral dip.

Even if Bayer has been used as a coral dip since 2010-2011, I would still say we don't know the long term results. 3 or 4 years isn't really enough time, to know all the possible outcomes of dipping in Bayer advanced.

The proof is in the tanks. Over a 3-4 year period any coral that was damaged due to dipping in insecticide would show some form of harm wether it is loss of color or stunted growth. Acropora are very sensitive corals that do not tolerate any changes

And on the subject of iodine dipping. You can dip an acro infested with aefw 20 times in one day and it will not kill them I think you need to do a little bit more research on aefw before you continue on with the discussion

Reefers have turned to alternatives like bayer because the big companies Are always years behind the diy guys

Almost every advance in technology in our hobby came from the diy crowd and the tinkerers. If we waited for the chemists. Aefw would unbeatable.


Th
 

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First off, very good article and a great read. It looks like you have some good first hand knowledge about how the commercially developed dips are created. Personally I am not yet a user of the Bayer dip, but I have seen it work well and have zero casualties, other than pests of course...

I would say as a hobby we need to make a call out to the aquarium product companies to start placing better labels on their products. Start including the active ingredients in the product on the label like many others are required to do. I know what's in the Bayer product based on its label and MSDS sheet. The aquarium products are a guessing game... If it has a red tint I am expecting there to be iodine, but what else is there? However think of the TLF Revive as it smells like a colorless pine sol. Until there is some transparency, personally I cannot give them more credit than a DIY option. Keep in mind I am a user of TLF Revive and Seachem Coral Cure in a 2 step dip. Most times I dip in flatworm exit as well as I don't want them in my tank...

My personal belief when it comes to dipping corals is, I would rather lose a coral in the dipping process than lose the tank due to some unforseen pest. Whatever is successful I will use. I have nearly full bottles of the products I currently use, but when they are out I plan on trying the bayer option as a replacement for the TLF Revive.
 

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Great article!
 
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reeffirstaid

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Honestly, I think the decision to dip comes down to the individual reef keeper. If you are comfortable, dipping your corals in something like Bayer Advanced, then it's an individual choice. As for my understanding of aefw, I have never personally dealt with them, though I know a bit about them. I don't know of any in-tank treatment that will kill aefw, so naturally dipping is the only avenue to kill them. Several species of wrasses have been implicated as biological controls, with varying degrees of success. Sailfert's Flatworm Exit has been used in high concentrations to kill aefw, as well as iodine and freshwater dips. I also know that getting a positive ID on aefw is challenging, due to their size and camouflage.

Animal de-wormer has also been used to kill aefw, which is risky as well, not sure how risky compared to using Bayer Advanced. From what I've read in the past, a variety of iodine based coral dips are effective in treating corals infected with flat worms. As for the egg sacks, from what I understand, the only way to remove those is manually and none of the dips have an effect on the eggs.

I quarantine all my corals, and have a dedicated coral QT tank. I've practiced qt of all my animals, since shortly after I entered the hobby years ago. For me personally, I wouldn't dip a coral in insecticide, unless I had exhausted all other options. Luckily for me, quarantine and dipping using coral dips has proven, thus far, a positive way to cultivate healthy specimens.

Advancements in the hobby, to some extent, have come from the DIY crowd. Many of these are trends that come and go, and re-appear over time. Most of the core principles found in the hobby, have come from applying reef science to the captive environment. For example, salt mix is one area of reef keeping that has changed the game immensely. Having access to an easy to use mix, that produces consistent results, in regard to water chemistry, is the result of a laboratory environment like was described in the article. The same applies when comparing a reef specific additive, with a grocery store counterpart or say using bio-balls over vodka dosing.

In 5-10 years there may be coral dips on the market, formulated very similar to Bayer Advanced, and we sit around talking about how horrible it was dealing with aefw before using Bayer Advanced as a dip was discovered. Or, in 5-10 years we may be talking about how it's too bad we didn't know that dipping corals in Bayer Advanced caused this and that. Any research on aefw will reveal that species that release excessive amounts of mucous, are often not bothered by flatworms. In the article, I discuss the fact that we don't know how Bayer Advanced may, or may not, interfere with those natural physiological processes.

Like I said before, the decision to dip a coral in anything, is made on part of the individual reef keeper. In doing that, you are also accepting a variety of possible consequences, known and unknown.
 

cdness

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Reefers have turned to alternatives like bayer because the big companies Are always years behind the diy guys

Almost every advance in technology in our hobby came from the diy crowd and the tinkerers. If we waited for the chemists. Aefw would unbeatable.

I have to wholeheartedly agree with these two statements... The DIY crowd and tinkerers are on the same level as the big public aquariums when they have a problem to solve and no current solution available...

Where would we be with red bugs if someone didn't drop a tablet of interceptor into the tank to try cure them?

Where would we be on reef lighting if the power conscious home reefer didn't try experimenting with LEDs?

Where would we be on marine ornamental breeding if the home hobbiest didn't see a challenge and accepted it to be the first to breed a certain fish?

I truly believe that the companies out there let the home hobbiest tinker and generate their ideas off the tinkerers. Once the proof of concept is done that it will work, next comes in the big company to copy, mass produce and possibly improve upon the ideas and get them out to the mass market. This is not bad as they are able to get an improved product out to the masses with a name people trust

For the masses, I would never recommend the Bayer dip as it is a DIY product and required some more thinking than some are willing to put forth. I would tell them the same thing as you that the tried and true commercial products are better as they have been through rigorous testing and controlled production. I would also always use commercial products if I was involved in a commercial business or maintenance company as it looks better than carrying in a bottle of Bayer insecticide or a bag of ice melt... However to those who have the DIY mind and are willing to tinker a bit in a realm of uncertainty, I would tell them to try the Bayer dip as well as other DIY methods out there for supplimentation and treatment.

Again, great article and I feel there will be a good discussion in this thread about the topic!
 
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reeffirstaid

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cdness, you mention transparency in the products we use. This has been a major problem for both freshwater and marine aquarists. I certainly wish there was more transparency, and imagine the lack of transparency is two fold. One, aquarium product manufacturers don't want to reveal the exact make-up of their products, for fear they would be replicated. Two, transparency is often the result of regulation, which most of us try to avoid if possible. I know years ago, when I kept and bred freshwater Discus fish, the Discus plague was a serious threat to livestock. There were a variety of suggestions on treating it, but since no one really knew what compound in any aquarium related product worked, aquarists were relying on a chemical soup of treatments, that often killed the fish quicker than the disease. It would be nice to know the exact compound, and dosage, of a particular drug, and have good hard facts on what that does, similar to what we see in human medicine and clinical trials.
 

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Flatworm exit doesn't kill aefw only red planaria and zoanthid eating nudis

the iodine based dips do not kill the aefw either. The iodine dips only stun the worms which cause some of the them to fall
Off in our dipping container the problem with that is most of the tiny aefw that are invisible to the eye are not infected by the commercially available dips

Dr rawlinson talks about that here

https://experiment.com/projects/the-life-cycle-of-a-coral-killer-the-acropora-eating-flatworm

Freshwater dips may kill aefw. I have not heard of anyone trying them but they are more than likely going to kill or severely damage the coral you are trying to protect

The should not be a need for an In Tank treatment if a good protocol is established. When I recieve a frag the first thing I do is cut of the encrusting base. If there is no base or dead spots there is not anywhere for eggs to hide. Aefw eggs are only laid on a spot of dead tissue. Never on lIve tissue. This eliminates the possibility of any eggs making it into the system. next comes the bayer dip. Which kills all aefw and any other pest. Then my frags are into the quarantine system that is not tied Into my main system.

I have bought pieces that can on infested with worms. And I have never even seen a bite mark on anythingin my quarantine setup

No other dip or method is proven to totally kill aefw
 

cdness

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Flatworm exit doesn't kill aefw only red planaria and zoanthid eating nudis

I learn something new every day! I knew it didn't kill AEFW, but I didn't know it worked well against Zoa Eating Nudis.

Regarding the transparency part and the regulation that goes into it, if your product has the right patent you are protected from copycats. I am not for major regulation, however I feel that the active ingredients used should be listed on ANY chemical based product we add to the reef. If they don't release it, how can we feel it is any safer or effective than Bayer or Purple Up... My personal preference is if you have things to hide, then it can't be a good reason why. Disclosure can further help the innovation of the hobby and increase the care level we are able to give the animals in our tanks.
 

turbo21

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I learn something new every day! I knew it didn't kill AEFW, but I didn't know it worked well against Zoa Eating Nudis.

Regarding the transparency part and the regulation that goes into it, if your product has the right patent you are protected from copycats. I am not for major regulation, however I feel that the active ingredients used should be listed on ANY chemical based product we add to the reef. If they don't release it, how can we feel it is any safer or effective than Bayer or Purple Up... My personal preference is if you have things to hide, then it can't be a good reason why. Disclosure can further help the innovation of the hobby and increase the care level we are able to give the animals in our tanks.

It works great on zoa eating nudis. They just fall apart

But in my experience. Not worth it to use in tank against red planaria (see my crash thread) lol
 

HAVE YOU EVER KEPT A RARE/UNCOMMON FISH, CORAL, OR INVERT? SHOW IT OFF IN THE THREAD!

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