The people at the lfs screwed me and my clowns :(

DLHDesign

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So basically the water would go from the DT, then through the gate valve and into a few filter socks then into a Refugium, then into the algae scrubbers then through the drip lines and dosing pumps then back into the DT?
Close. The water flows down from the DT, through the gate valve (which is open enough to allow the same volume of water that the pump is returning) and into the sump tank. Often times, the first thing in the sump is the filter socks (or equivalent), yes. Then it will often empty into a large area of the sump where the skimmer (which often has it's own pump running) sits. The refugium (or "fuge" for short, though the dictionary on my browser seems to recognize neither...) may - or may not - be part of the that area. It may also be before or after the skimmer (after seems to be common, though it varies). The fuge, by the way, is just a smaller tank with lots of stuff in it that bacteria likes to grow on, stuff that extracts nutrients (algae of some type), or both. So it's a tank in a tank, in effect. Probes and heaters will often be in the large area as well. From that large area, the water will generally flow into another section where the pump returns the water up to the DT.

The drip lines and dosing pumps confuse me
Dosing pumps are small - very small. They are almost always peristaltic pumps. These pumps draw a small, controlled volume from one area and into another. They do this via "drip lines" - which are just small diameter tubing. The rate of flow is so low through these lines that they just drip out the liquid; thus the term "drip line". These dosing pumps are programmed to only add (relatively) small volumes into the system - often measured in milliliters - at specific times during the day. They are not part of the closed-loop DT-sump-DT system. Instead, they draw from a separate canister (or several canisters - I have 8, for example) that each contain a specific thing to be added to the tank in specific measures. Dosing in "2 part" (one liquid that increases alkalinity and another that does calcium) is likely the most common, but all sorts of additives exist and are added in via dosing pumps. Again; you could do this by hand, of course, but that becomes tedious and error-prone over time.

I don't understand auto top offs. Do they just measure salinity then add just RO water without salt to keep it constant? If the water becomes less salty will it also be able to add more salt water?
There are all sorts of ATO's these days, but the most basic is a simple "gravity fed" system. This involves a separate container (tank, bucket, etc.) that holds RO/DI water (and sometimes more) hooked up to a small hose. That hose connects to a float valve. When the water level in the sump drops (due to evaporation, for example), the float opens and RO/DI waters is added in. This brings the water level back up, which closes the float. The result is the same as if you drew a line on your tank to measure it's "full" level and just poured in RO/DI water every day to keep it there - except that it happens constantly and is - again - less tedious and error prone. All you have to worry about is filling the ATO container every so often.

Does the water stay inside one pipe that goes through the different stages of the sump then back to the DT or how does it transfer from different areas of the sump?
Every sump design is different, but they are not pipes - they are tanks. @saltyfilmfolks Google search link above contains good examples (I just like to type a lot. <grin>).
 

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mcarroll

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@Riley Pasha Your questions have all been excellent, so don't stop asking. But! :)

If you haven't already got one of these books ordered and on the way, please take some time and order one now. :) It'll take you weeks or months to piece together what you need to know online, in this manner. But, you could read in a book what you need to know in an hour or an afternoon, potentially.

One of the main aquarium publisher's Aquarium Bestsellers list is the place to start.

If you'd rather start with something inexpensive, short and digestible, I highly recommend this book:
The New Marine Aquarium
180px-NewMarine_cover.jpg


If you'd rather have a book that is more canonical and tome-like for reference, I highly recommend this:
The Conscientious Marine Aquarist
180px-CMA2-Cover.jpg


And make sure to check out what your local library has in stock!

BTW, in my estimation, anyone is making a mistake if they don't ultimately end up reading (if not also owning) all the books on that list.

Borneman's book is awesome.....pretty much every one on that list is, in its own right.

But the two I linked are where I'd start if you wanted a recommendation. Either one, or both. :)
 
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Riley Pasha

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@Riley Pasha Your questions have all been excellent, so don't stop asking. But! :)

If you haven't already got one of these books ordered and on the way, please take some time and order one now. :) It'll take you weeks or months to piece together what you need to know online, in this manner. But, you could read in a book what you need to know in an hour or an afternoon, potentially.

One of the main aquarium publisher's Aquarium Bestsellers list is the place to start.

If you'd rather start with something inexpensive, short and digestible, I highly recommend this book:
The New Marine Aquarium
180px-NewMarine_cover.jpg


If you'd rather have something canonical and tome-like book for reference, I highly recommend this:
The Conscientious Marine Aquarist
180px-CMA2-Cover.jpg


And make sure to check out what your local library has in stock!

BTW, in my estimation, anyone is making a mistake if they don't ultimate end up reading (if not also owning) all the books on that list.

Borneman's book is awesome.....pretty much every one on that list is, in its own right.

But the two I linked are where I'd start if you wanted a recommendation. Either one, or both. :)
Thanks man! I'll see rn if I can find a PDF online or an iBook to download.
 

saltyfilmfolks

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mcarroll

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To my knowledge, #6 on the list (The Reef Aquarium (Vol. 3): Science, Art, and Technology) is the only one to be released in E-book format.

Not the place I'd start, but also an excellent book.

Try Amazon's used section – or better, a local used book store – if you're worried about price. Can't beat a physical, paper, ideally-hardback book! :) :)
 
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Riley Pasha

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mcarroll

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Can you belive I had drinks w Bob a couple weeks ago and he still wont give me a freebie?
That guys is cheaper than me!

I cringe when I think about how few folks buy aquarium books. Judging by their target markets, Fenner and company ought to be well-off from book royalties....I bet that's not quite how authoring an aqaurium book goes in realty tho.

I worry that he may have been out celebrating "one more sale" when he had drinks with you!! :D
 

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Do most people buy or make their own sumps?

Let you sump design suit your needs.....don't go with a generic design. :)

Mine is a standard 30 Gallon Long – as close to the size of the display tanks as I could practically fit in the space. I don't like the stereotypical sump you see around cuz the baffles tend to be in the way and permanently mounted. I do like having an open tank to work in where nothing is in my way. :)

The only exception would be if I wanted a refugium in the sump. (I don't, but if I did...) In which case I'd build a wall in black on one side of the sump in order to make one separate space for a refugium, and I'd pump water into it with a small utility pump, letting the water spill back over the wall into the main sump. Kinda like the action of a hang-on filter.
 

saltyfilmfolks

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That's a bummer, guess I'll order the physical version then, hope it isn't too much.
Fenners book is avail on line I belive

Do most people buy or make their own sumps?
Both. it depends on budget and Passion, some folks just like to make stuff.
Your in SD so check out SDreefs. LOTS of used gear.
I built mine as I wanted a fuge as big as my tank. I like bugs, and u

I cringe when I think about how few folks buy aquarium books. Judging by their target markets, Fenner and company ought to be well-off from book royalties....I bet that's not quite how authoring an aqaurium book goes in realty tho.

I worry that he may have been out celebrating "one more sale" when he had drinks with you!! :D
Naw, hes a crazy as a bag of tangs ans just jealous my hair is longer than his. Really good dude.
 

DLHDesign

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Do most people buy or make their own sumps?
I think this is a matter of experience. If you know what you're looking for, you likely have very specific requirements so you're more likely to build your own (or have it commissioned to your specs, at least). If you are still trying to understand what the heck a "bean animal" is (much less if you want to use one), you'll likely want to just buy something pre-designed that will fit in the space you have and with the tank you've got.

For myself (read: noob), I just went with a pre-built "all in one" Red Sea Reefer system. There's enough to learn when you start out without having to also learn how to safely and correctly build a sump, IMO.
 

saltyfilmfolks

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@Riley Pasha I gotto go kill some aiptasia and do a wc, but so you know. Fountains sells UV and filtered seawater, I dont talk to them though. Just bring some buckets. Aqua SD sells Red sea coral Pro, its good butif you have corals it can swing your alk if you have a different salt. ASD has great RODI as Does Aquatic warehouse. I only talk to a few guys at AW.
And no I don't want to know who the goofy lfs was from the original post. ;)
 

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A note on the books:

Great suggestions above in regards to what to get - I've bought several of those on the list for sure. Problem is; I've barely opened them. And when I have, the information contained within is certainly sound and correct - but I also found it to be incomplete. Not the "basic" stuff - the science and general ideas stuff - but more the practical details. Just since I've gotten into the hobby (<1 year ago), the technology and knowledge has changed - and it shows no signs of slowing down. New research is being done all the time, leading to a new understanding of the ocean and our little pieces of them. With that understanding comes new products and techniques that align better with the new information. I'm not talking dramatic shifts, but just small things here and there that are just a bit different than the books (which are static in nature, of course) will tell. Along the same lines, new products are being released all the time for this hobby - some just evolutions, others entirely new creations. The introduction of those things can (but don't have to, of course) have an impact on the way that we reefers build and run our systems.

I'm not saying don't get the books. But if/when you do, I would suggest that you don't consider them gospel. Think of them as a reference guide, rather. Read through them and use what you read as a starting point to a conversation. Or, more likely, jump into a conversation that's on-going - you'll find plenty of those here. Books are wonderful because you can move through them at your own pace and as you need them, but I'd never downplay the value that resources such as this forum provide - there are likely enough people with enough knowledge on this forum to write multiple times the number of aquarium books as exist today.
 
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Riley Pasha

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To my knowledge, #6 on the list (The Reef Aquarium (Vol. 3): Science, Art, and Technology) is the only one to be released in E-book format.

Not the place I'd start, but also an excellent book.

Try Amazon's used section – or better, a local used book store – if you're worried about price. Can't beat a physical, paper, ideally-hardback book! :) :)
I just picked up some multi purpose tank cycling bacteria on my way home and put in the recommended amount (3 oz or 18 teaspoons). It claims to instantly cycle the tank in 24 hours so I think my clowns will have their best chance now. I also picked up some Prime in case I still have ammonia issues. I plan on doing a water test tommorow morning to see if all the levels are ok. I feel much more relaxed now and thankful that such a product exists.
 

DLHDesign

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It claims to instantly cycle the tank in 24 hours...
A dubious claim, I would think... Cycling the tank involves not just having bacteria in the tank (which a bottle can do), but also that said bacteria has reached a point of balance with the food which it consumes. This balance is something that can't (as I understand it) be poured in - it must develop.

Not trying to give you cause to resume your worries - if they've lasted this long and are eating, it's a safe bet that they will continue to do so. My caution and comments are only to ensure that you continue to go slow and give your tank time to settle into itself before adding in anything more. Sounds like you wouldn't anyways; just want to make sure it's been said. :)
 
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Riley Pasha

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A dubious claim, I would think... Cycling the tank involves not just having bacteria in the tank (which a bottle can do), but also that said bacteria has reached a point of balance with the food which it consumes. This balance is something that can't (as I understand it) be poured in - it must develop.

Not trying to give you cause to resume your worries - if they've lasted this long and are eating, it's a safe bet that they will continue to do so. My caution and comments are only to ensure that you continue to go slow and give your tank time to settle into itself before adding in anything more. Sounds like you wouldn't anyways; just want to make sure it's been said. :)
ya im not planning on adding any new fish for a while :p. As of now I am checking paremeters every day and doing weekly 12% changes..possibly more if I can find a bigger bucket. I just noticed that this prime I bought is just a conditioner and not something I could use in addition to a conditioner (as I already have one made by API called stress coat. Do you think I should return the prime? or is better than the API one I have rn? Also does it do anything other than make tap water safe for my aquarium?
 

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ya im not planning on adding any new fish for a while :p. As of now I am checking paremeters every day and doing weekly 12% changes..possibly more if I can find a bigger bucket. I just noticed that this prime I bought is just a conditioner and not something I could use in addition to a conditioner (as I already have one made by API called stress coat. Do you think I should return the prime? or is better than the API one I have rn? Also does it do anything other than make tap water safe for my aquarium?

I would advise not to put so many chemicals or outside products in your tank from experience. I've had to eat a tank down because it got to the point where I would solve one thing, and another problem would arise.

I set up my recent tank and just have it some time to develop itself. That's all you need. Your live rock and sand provide all the filtration you need. Just keep your water topped off, temp stable, salinity stable and you will see your tank go from its ugly tank syndrome to something beautiful.

I do have chemi pure elite and filter floss and sponge in a small internal filter but that's it. It's been working great. Someone told me that the best thing to do is wait and it's been working out great for me.
 
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