The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[Sea MunnKey]

I've never quarantined any corals or fish since the very first day. Now if only I can find the time to raise some brine shrimps to feed the recently acquired 2 African Blue Striped pipefish ...

 

[Paul B]

I took a short video just now.

Paul, didn't you advocate treating your water with Clorox a while back? If it wasn't you, my apologies, but could you explain how this fits with your method/theory/practice?

Wow, Your old I did used to do that many years ago when I used water from the Brooklyn Bridge. Those were the days in the 70s where I would have to keep my fish in copper or they would croak in a few days from ich. I was worried about all sorts of things then. I also did not invent that, it was "Robert Straughn" (The Salt Water Aquarium in the Home) Clorox treated water was used to hatch the first squid in captivity. The water I collected was filthy and yellow. The Clorox made it kind of perfect. It worked anyway.

I started out as everyone else did, stupid about everything. I knew nothing about parasites except that copper killed them. In the 45 or so years since then, I have not been in a coma and I gradually learned to study the fish and know what keeps them healthy. I even learned how to spawn fish then.
This is a blue devil over his nest of eggs Circa 1974. Lets start a thread of fish spawning in the 70s.



Here are the eggs.



This has absolutely nothing to do with fish. It was at a Veterans affair and those were the singers. If you don't like it. Close your eyes.

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Hubba ... hubba ...

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Thank for the feeding video clip Paul. Were all those clam stuffs that you fed them? Thanks

Oh BTW when lights are out I've noticed the Blue Striped pipefish loves to swim close to the top of the water surface in search of food ... is this normal?

 

[Paul B]

That was mysis, cyclopese and some LRS food. I just threw some food in there so the fish would wake up and come out for the video. The cyclopese is for the bluestripes and Queen anthius which go nuts for the stuff. Bluestripes are all over the place and don't seem to have a favorite spot.
They are some of my favorite fish

 

[Paul B]

In the wild, fish in breading condition and eating as you describe, die in various algal blooms all the time and in vast numbers.

In our tanks, fish in breeding condition and eating as you describe, can die from algal blooms as well if they don't have specific immunity and are challenged with a sufficient pathogenic load. Diet alone won't save them.

Thats true. It is also true that when the meteorite hit Earth millions of years ago, the dinosaurs died. Even the healthy ones so I am not sure what your post is about.
If I poured gasoline in my tank the fish would die but so far, no pathogenic load has hurt them and the 40 years this has been true is much longer than any scientific studies last.

Anybody have pictures of those old quarantined tanks where the fish only die of old age?

 

[AcanthurusRex]

I apologize but...
There is no science in this article. Lot's of conclusions that have no facts to support them. Annectodal accounts do not make good science.
This is a perfect way to kill the hobby. The high mortality of fish is the best evidence that the collection, even sustainable, of ornamental fish should be banned. This was the argument used in Hawaii. Encouraging people to be irresponsible is not helpful.

 

[Humblefish]

I apologize but...
There is no science in this article. Lot's of conclusions that have no facts to support them. Annectodal accounts do not make good science.
This is a perfect way to kill the hobby. The high mortality of fish is the best evidence that the collection, even sustainable, of ornamental fish should be banned. This was the argument used in Hawaii. Encouraging people to be irresponsible is not helpful.

I feel it's important for people to see/read all sides of an issue. So they don't feel like just one way is behind shoved down their throats. People need to have the freedom to decide for themselves, and hopefully learn from their mistakes. From my way of thinking, hopefully the majority of hobbyists will decide that proper quarantining is the lesser of two evils. If not, and being irresponsible eventually puts an end to this hobby... so be it.

 

[keithdoc]

It would be wise for others considering QT /no QT to realize, that years of experience and success cannot be overlooked.
These tanks most folks here are advocating are well fed, well maintained, rock solid, and don't suffer from the tank swings that plague new reefers.

I would suggest that the use of the term "immunity" is really describing health/fitness, in a stable system, where unstressed fish are not susceptible to pathogens.

My experience (which I would NOT have shared, but for this thread):
I have been slowly moving away from strict QT as I have become more comfortable with a stable tank and balancing my desire to expand my livestock. After losing a number of nice fish (from good sources) in QT, I've recently begun introducing healthy fish directly into my DT.

I feed pellets daily, frozen LRS almost daily, and nori 2-4x week. I run Triton without water changes, and have a funky refugium full of chaeto/algae in various stages of growth/decline that's never harvested.

Before this, I only lost fish that jumped/snuck into overflow. Now, while I no longer lose fish in quarantine, I have introduced stress/disease, and watched a few established fish succumb. Overall, I've been able to maintain healthy fish, but I still feel like I'm gambling each time. An established yellow kole tang got velvet from a newly introduced purple tang - both casualties. I saw ich on a different purple tang (and some of my residents), but they all recovered without any losses.

I have strongly considered adding UV, and wonder if that might be the one item I'm missing to significantly increase success?

 

[Land Shark]

This (the tank) ran for 5 years in one house, then I moved and it (the tank) was in the second house for 42 years, then 5 months ago I put it all in vats and moved it (the tank) here to my new house.

I sense a bit of baloney here as the old tank never made it to the new place. The fish and corals are now in a brand new tank that is cleverly disguised to look like the old tank.

 

[theMeat]

I sense a bit of baloney here as the old tank never made it to the new place. The fish and corals are now in a brand new tank that is cleverly disguised to look like the old tank.



View attachment 934331

Are you saying the new glass or silicone is the secret to his success? You may be on to something

 

[Paul B]

Encouraging people to be irresponsible is not helpful.

I agree. That is why I devised a method where no fish ever dies from disease. How many hobbiests can say that?
To me being irresponsible allows fish to become sick or die by removing an essential part of their wellbeing, their immunity.
In 2 minutes and on the first page of the disease forum I found these threads of fish in trouble in quarantine. It is not a Panacea and will not make you lose less fish. It's another method but not the only method and my method is not the only one either. But I don't consider myself Irresponsible in my fish keeping ability especially that I have the oldest tank and fish on here that never get sick. I see fish dying in quarantine unnecessarily as being irresponsible.
Show me the old quarantined fish that only die of old age. If your fish die from something else, you were irresponsible and it is your fault.

If my fish spawn, never get sick and only die from old age, how is that irresponsible?

I just looked right now at how many fish are dying in or right after quarantine.
Here are some.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lethargic-anthias-in-qt.535572/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/loss-of-fish-after-qt-need-help-to-understand-why.534907/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wrasses-stressed-in-quarantine.535350/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-or.522047/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-for-the-first-time.505981/

 

[Land Shark]

Are you saying the new glass or silicone is the secret to his success? You may be on to something

Lack of integrity can cancel out the positive impact of expertise.

 

[Paul B]

I sense a bit of baloney here as the old tank never made it to the new place. The fish and corals are now in a brand new tank that is cleverly disguised to look like the old tank.

You caught me. Here is the original tank in 1971. It was kind of scratched so I polished and stretched it.

 

[Paul B]

Lack of integrity can cancel out the positive impact of expertise.

OMG!!

I tell people I have hair too. I am just a big fat liar.

 

[Mortie31]

Lack of integrity can cancel out the positive impact of expertise.

Wow your a desperate man...

 

[Bradley Keck]

I have a problem with some of the comments of irresponsibility and laziness in regards to what he is talking about. I could not disagree more. He is trying to inform others there is another way to keep HEALTHY, HAPPY, THRIVING FISH. How is that at all irresponsible or lazy!? I also keep reading about "no science" to this method. Other than the biochemical science behind quarantine/medicating it too is antidotal. You quarantine for however long and medicate with however many medications, and then you put them in your tank. OK now what? Where is your science for what occurs after you place the fish in the DT? Where is the science for the long term condition of the fish that has been through quarantine? Where are the statistics for the longevity of fish that have been quarantined versus those that were not? I would guess any of the answers to these questions are going to be antidotal and not scientific evidence. To criticize someone for sharing their success in keeping happy healthy fish because they have no scientific proof is just silly. Sorry this thread has just struck chord with me. I care VERY MUCH for my fish. They all have names and are apart of our family just as our dog is. I get the feeling on some of these comments, that because I do not quarantine, I'm a lazy, irresponsible aquarist.

 

[Paul B]

I have to apologize if I am not my usual jovial self and my comments may reflect that. I am in rather heavy pain where I would climb the walls but my wife would go nuts over the footprints. I ran out of narcotics a week ago and Tylenol is great for eyelash, Snowflake, Girly Man pain but this hunk of Titanium or aluminum in my knee feels like it wants to get out and I would like to let it. Even my fish are hiding from me. Yes, even the 27 year old non quarantined ones that I so irresponsibly threw into my tank because I am so lazy. They hate me for that and really wanted to be dipped in tree stump remover, then Prizapro then put in a PVC elbow for three months and they really hated not to be included on the disease forum

I was thinking of painting some black ich spots on my 10 year old copperband because I can't paint white spots. At least he would feel like I love him and don't want him to croak.
I am in so much pain now that I may set up a quarantine tank just to see how long my fish could live in there. I will have my great friend Humblefish come over to set it up for me. I am secretly trying to get him to move near here so he can take care of my fish for me when I am out buying quarantine tanks and Prizapro which I use to make chicken soup.
OK why don't we list our quarantined fish and how old they are. How about that. Any 20 year olds, how about 15, OK 8.

It's time for another Tylenol so just ignore this post because I have no idea what I just wrote.

Here I am watching my copperband swim around my boat for a little vacation.

 

[Mortie31]

I have to apologize if I am not my usual jovial self and my comments may reflect that. I am in rather heavy pain where I would climb the walls but my wife would go nuts over the footprints. I ran out of narcotics a week ago and Tylenol is great for eyelash, Snowflake, Girly Man pain but this hunk of Titanium or aluminum in my knee feels like it wants to get out and I would like to let it. Even my fish are hiding from me. Yes, even the 27 year old non quarantined ones that I so irresponsibly threw into my tank because I am so lazy. They hate me for that and really wanted to be dipped in tree stump remover, then Prizapro then put in a PVC elbow for three months and they really hated not to be included on the disease forum

I was thinking of painting some black ich spots on my 10 year old copperband because I can't paint white spots. At least he would feel like I love him and don't want him to croak.
I am in so much pain now that I may set up a quarantine tank just to see how long my fish could live in there. I will have my great friend Humblefish come over to set it up for me. I am secretly trying to get him to move near here so he can take care of my fish for me when I am out buying quarantine tanks and Prizapro which I use to make chicken soup.
OK why don't we list our quarantined fish and how old they are. How about that. Any 20 year olds, how about 15, OK 8.

It's time for another Tylenol so just ignore this post because I have no idea what I just wrote.

Here I am watching my copperband swim around my boat for a little vacation.

You need to mix half bottle brandy with half bottle of port, sit somewhere comfy and watch your tank.... trust me your knee will not bother you any more.... unless you fall over going for a pee... take care and thanks for being you, this hobby needs characters

 

[Paul B]

I went through a couple of bottles of Grand Marnier already but that stuff is like $85.00 a bottle and I can't afford that every hour or so.