The DOs and DON’Ts of Quarantine

[TaylorPilot]

You are probably right. Lower SG = more dissolved oxygen in the water and less metabolic demand on the fish. So, treating with any medication at 1.017-19 would be better. I also prefer to treat at 75-76F for the same reasons. Below is alprazo's "Salvage protocol for very sick fish":

That is all pretty interesting. I had always heard to run the temp higher because it speeds up the rate that the Ich goes through its stages. I wonder how you could get the prescription for the dexamethasone. An airstone with o2 sounds like a good idea also. It's actually pretty cheap to keep around.

 

[booth2010]

So I have a question, I cant remember if I read this before or not but in another post you have said:

"Life Cycle - Ich is most often introduced into an aquarium by a fish carrying trophonts. However, cross contamination from theronts or a tomont brought in on a coral/invert are other possibilities. Assuming we are dealing with a fish carrying trophonts, this is how the life cycle plays out:

1. A trophont will typically spend 3-7 days feeding on a fish, before dropping off to become a protomont.
2. The protomont crawls around for 2-18 hours, looking for a surface to encyst upon. Once it finds this, it sticks to the surface, and begins the encysting process. The parasite is now called a tomont.
3. It takes about 8-12 hours for the cyst to harden around the tomont. After this, the tomont goes into “reproductive mode” producing numerous daughter tomites. These tomites are then released into the water column as theronts. How long it takes for theronts to be released varies greatly, depending upon which strain of ich you are dealing with. The average time is 7-14 days; however in at least one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997), it took 72 days for all the theronts to be released from a group of tomonts.
4. The now “free swimming” theronts seek out fish to feed on, thereby becoming trophonts, and the cycle starts all over again. A given strain will die out after 100 generations or so. Given the average life cycle of ich is 2 weeks, this could take almost 4 years (on average).

As you may have noticed, the timing for each stage to “move forward” to the next varies considerably. Therefore, ich is rarely in sync. For example, it is not unusual for a fish to be battling trophonts, while simultaneously theronts are swimming around looking for a host to feed on. This is especially true if your tank is plagued by more than one strain of ich. It’s this “perfect storm” that sometimes allows ich to overwhelm an immune system and the fish dies."

Now for my question, wouldnt the period to keep fallow be more than 72 days? The last of the theronts would be looking for a host on the 72/73 day mark. How long would the theronts be alive if there is no host to be found? Or have I confused a couple of time periods and the fallow time is longer than 72 days?

 

[ksfulk]

So I have a question, I cant remember if I read this before or not but in another post you have said:

Now for my question, wouldnt the period to keep fallow be more than 72 days? The last of the theronts would be looking for a host on the 72/73 day mark. How long would the theronts be alive if there is no host to be found? Or have I confused a couple of time periods and the fallow time is longer than 72 days?

1.) Remove fish from tank (Day 0) Any tormonts left should "hatch out" within 24 hours
2.) All free swimming theronts in the tank try desperately to find a fishy host to latch onto (Days 1 -72), but cannot so they die
3.) Add treated and ich free fish back into the tank (Day 73)

Thats how I read it at least.

 

[booth2010]

The way I am understanding is:

Day 1 - 2hr-18hr protomont crawls around
Day 1-2 -8-12 more hours protomont hardnes to cyst
Day 7-72 - theront is released
Day 72-? - Theronts die off due to no host

Granted 72 days is the longest recorded tomont stage the theronts should all be dead but there is that chance of them stil being alive...

 

[Humblefish]

@booth2010 You make an outstanding observation and it is something I have been thinking about for some time now. So, let's do the math and tweak the fallow period for ich using the parasite's known life cycle & worst case scenario:

1. Let's say a trophont drops off the last fish you catch before going fallow. We know that the protomont can only crawl around 18 hours max before beginning the encysting process. The process itself takes no longer than 12 hours until it has hardened around what is now called a tomont. 18+12=30 hours, but I'm just gonna call it 2 days to err on the side of caution.
2. The longest known time period it took for theronts (free swimmers) to be released from a group of tomonts is 72 days. However, I want to make it clear that this 72 days has only been encountered once; one study involving a single strain of ich. In most other studies, 7-14 days has been "the norm" for theront release.
3. Once released from it's tomont, a theront must find a fish host to attach to within 48 hours (2 days) or it dies. Thus ending ich's presence in your fallow tank. Although in actuality, a theront's infectivity is greatly reduced just 6 - 8 hours after it leaves the cyst. It's non-infective after just 8 hours, but still able to move for up to 48 hours. So again, to err on the side of caution, we're gonna say 2 days for this "final phase" of it's life cycle.

So, let's add it all up. 2+72+2 = 76 days. That would be the true maximum fallow period for ich. Probably a bit of overkill, but I will make the necessary adjustments to the stickies and start recommending 76 days from this day forward.

 

[booth2010]

That what I was thinking. Like you and I both mentioned that 72 day strain was one of a kind freak strain but lately I have had the luck that I would run into that one and have to start the fallow period over from day 1 lol. Thank you for the breakdown. After already going 72 days and extra 4 isnt gonna kill anyone for thats last 100% security blanket.

 

[Humblefish]

That what I was thinking. Like you and I both mentioned that 72 day strain was one of a kind freak strain but lately I have had the luck that I would run into that one and have to start the fallow period over from day 1 lol. Thank you for the breakdown. After already going 72 days and extra 4 isnt gonna kill anyone for thats last 100% security blanket.

Let's just hope a strain of ich is never discovered with theronts taking more than 72 days to be released. That would make me .

 

[drstratton]

I have two fish in quarantine and I used Amquel in conjunction with a water change. I ordered some Prazipro that I would like to treat my fish with as a preventative measure (do you believe this is necessary?), but now I'm not sure it will be safe since I used the Amquel. Is there a half life for Amquel, if so how long should I wait before treating with the Prazipro. I am also planning on adding BioSpira to the tank!

 

[Humblefish]

I have two fish in quarantine and I used Amquel in conjunction with a water change. I ordered some Prazipro that I would like to treat my fish with as a preventative measure (do you believe this is necessary?), but now I'm not sure it will be safe since I used the Amquel. Is there a half life for Amquel, if so how long should I wait before treating with the Prazipro. I am also planning on adding BioSpira to the tank!

I am a big believer in using praziquantel prophylactically as flukes often harbor in the gills unseen. However, you are right to be cautious mixing prazi with an ammonia reducer. According to posts I've read on various forums: Sometimes there are no ill effects - sometimes it's a disaster. I've never figured out the reason why for these differing anecdotal experiences. I personally have never had any problems mixing the two.

My advice would be to do another large WC (without using Amquel) before administering Prazipro. Do you have access to RODI water?

 

[BfishLpond78]

What is the recommended brand of copper to use during QT? Debating between Cupramine and Copper Power (blue or green which is best?)

Does anyone have a link to a thread that talks about what a successful QT system should have and what additives are useful during the QT process?

 

[drstratton]

I am a big believer in using praziquantel prophylactically as flukes often harbor in the gills unseen. However, you are right to be cautious mixing prazi with an ammonia reducer. According to posts I've read on various forums: Sometimes there are no ill effects - sometimes it's a disaster. I've never figured out the reason why for these differing anecdotal experiences. I personally have never had any problems mixing the two.

My advice would be to do another large WC (without using Amquel) before administering Prazipro. Do you have access to RODI water?

Yes, I have an ro/di system. My QT is 29g. I just did a 5g water change yesterday without adding Amquel. I can do another before I administer the Prazi. I use a hob with a bio wheel and a bio sponge. Also should I remove the bio wheel before I treat? I have extra sponges, so I'm not really concerned about that. Should I also add the BioSpira during this time or wait until after treatment? Thank you!

 

[merlberg]

Now that @drstratton ask that question about the biowheel, should that be changed everytime you use the qt after letting it sit for a while since my qt is not always running or can I always reuse the same biowheel esp now that i started treating with copper?

But i think from now on i will always treat new fish with copper since this outbreak. I learned the hard way!

 

[Humblefish]

What is the recommended brand of copper to use during QT? Debating between Cupramine and Copper Power (blue or green which is best?)

This really is a matter of personal preference. I mostly use CP nowadays, but will sometimes still use Coppersafe on certain fish. However, I think I will be trying out Copper Power soon as I have read very good reviews. Cupramine is what most folks use, and is considered the safest as it is ionic copper. I think all 3 are good choices.

Does anyone have a link to a thread that talks about what a successful QT system should have and what additives are useful during the QT process?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

 

[Humblefish]

You can continue to use the bio wheel & sponge while you treat with medications. You also can add BioSpira (or any other bacterial additive) at any time during treatment.

Whether or not to reuse your bio-media post treatment is a matter of personal preference. Generally speaking, if things went smooth in QT (no losses) then I'd say continue to use your existing bio-media so long as it's not getting all gunky. But if you lost a bunch of fish in QT to some unknown disease, then it's time to break down the QT, clean it out thoroughly and discard anything from it you can. I personally like giving each & every fish I QT a "clean slate". So what I usually do is break down and sanitize the QT in-between batches of fish. I always keep 2-3 "new" sponges going down in my DT's sump, so they are seeded at all times and can be used the next time I need to QT.

 

[drstratton]

You can continue to use the bio wheel & sponge while you treat with medications. You also can add BioSpira (or any other bacterial additive) at any time during treatment.

Whether or not to reuse your bio-media post treatment is a matter of personal preference. Generally speaking, if things went smooth in QT (no losses) then I'd say continue to use your existing bio-media so long as it's not getting all gunky. But if you lost a bunch of fish in QT to some unknown disease, then it's time to break down the QT, clean it out thoroughly and discard anything from it you can. I personally like giving each & every fish I QT a "clean slate". So what I usually do is break down and sanitize the QT in-between batches of fish. I always keep 2-3 "new" sponges going down in my DT's sump, so they are seeded at all times and can be used the next time I need to QT.

Thank you! My fish look super healthy, so far. I've had them in quarantine for almost 2wks. My product arrived today, I just made up new salt water, so I will let that continue to mix until tomorrow then do another 5g water change and start treatment!

 

[4FordFamily]

Let's just hope a strain of ich is never discovered with theronts taking more than 72 days to be released. That would make me .

We had a chat about my strain. 82 days--- I'm 100% sure they were in 2-3x effective cupramine dose during this period (the fish) and then run through a FULL 12 day TTM just to be extra safe.

All nets buckets and things used were soaked in vinegar water 50:50 for no less than 12 hours then dried no less than 24 hours following this. Everything was dried in front of a fan in a room with an enormous dehumidifier that dries full buckets in a week.

That said, I am questioning my claim that they still have ich. I saw early stages I thought but it may well have been paranoia and something else. It's been 10 days in the DT now and I don't see any definitive ich signs.

I will keep you posted. I am starting to suspect perhaps something else. Haven't seen any remote evidence in 3-5 days.

 

[saltysilverado]

Parasites hate the warm water

 

[Humblefish]

Parasites hate the warm water

 

[DiverGirl82]

So I've got my first two fish in quarantine and I'm planning on treating with prazipro and cupramine and I just realized that the little hang on back aqueon filter I have on the tank has carbon in it. That's what comes with the filter. That won't work will it?

 

[drstratton]

So I've got my first two fish in quarantine and I'm planning on treating with prazipro and cupramine and I just realized that the little hang on back aqueon filter I have on the tank has carbon in it. That's what comes with the filter. That won't work will it?

You should be able to remove the carbon. It depletes so it is something that needs to be replaced.

If you want, you can purchase media pads that don't have carbon in them.