reef_ranch
Well-Known Member
I'm using kalk slurry at the moment but I'm finding its leaving deposits. How are you dosing it?
Stupid or Crazy? Lye in my kalk chamber.
- Thread starter RSnodgrass
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RobB'z Reef
2500 Club Member
I'm not getting any abiotic precip with my setup. I designed an inline injector and a calculator to go with it to determine dose amounts etc. Avg pH is 8.28 and avg dKH is 8.4. this explains it more
reef_ranch
Well-Known Member
Great video and explainer! Thank you! Next question: who sells the venturi??
RobB'z Reef
2500 Club Member
Nobody, it's something I worked with a buddy on designing and producing using a 3d printer. All the other parts are available at any home Depot/ace hardware type store. In the description of the video you'll find links to download the .STL file for the venturi portion so you can print it yourself as well as a parts list and assembly drawing.
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Any further info you can share as to why? I'll not likely ever go back to kalk.
What was your pH targeted at? Running 1 or 2 probes? Placed before or after the dosing line? Controller? Concentration? Containment vessel? pH range (with spikes)? Dosing amount? Age of tank? Other issues at the time?
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Update I switched to a 2sec every 10min dose. It appears to run just long enough with my current pump to keeps my pH w/in ~0.02 of 8.3!
Also, increasing my AFR dose again. Consumption by coral seems to be picking up and it's showing in my MG and Calc dropping consistently.
I believe I started at 30ml a day and now AFR is at 45.
Long way away from working long term but it's a start. I still need to put my container in Polypropylene bucket in case of a leak.
Also, increasing my AFR dose again. Consumption by coral seems to be picking up and it's showing in my MG and Calc dropping consistently.
I believe I started at 30ml a day and now AFR is at 45.
Long way away from working long term but it's a start. I still need to put my container in Polypropylene bucket in case of a leak.
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Update, alk and pH were stable for a long time but my MG and CA cannot maintain. Normally I'd think it was some kind of interaction causing precipitation but I'm not seeing it and the dosing is offset.
My AFR is now at 110ml/day and they suggested between 60-250ml or something which seems reasonable with what others have experience.
That said now that I'm increasing my AFR I'm finding that my Alk is spiking. As such I've cut back my overnight dosing to a lower pH of 8.1.
My AFR is now at 110ml/day and they suggested between 60-250ml or something which seems reasonable with what others have experience.
That said now that I'm increasing my AFR I'm finding that my Alk is spiking. As such I've cut back my overnight dosing to a lower pH of 8.1.
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Update: my AFR dose appears to be stable and is at a significantly higher rate than where I started. Coral health in general is good as well.
Currently, I've cut back my dose to 3hrs every morning (2sec every 10min) to get the pH up. I cannot dose all day/night like I had at first because the alk increase is considerable. This is a big departure from the start where the AFR dose was low (unable to increase) and I could dose alot more NaOH.
Now I'm trying to get my Alk lower because it runs at 10.15 dkh vs. straight AFR at just 7.5 dkh. This seems to illustrate a few things currently about NaOH.
1) It does have a considerable alk impact.
2) It does have a consistent and considerable pH impact.
3) The greater the need for pH increase, the greater the need for a mature/high uptake system to offset the alk input.
Keep in mind my normal pH is ~8. If my normal pH was 8.2 this would be a slam dunk imo. Targeting 8.3 will not work until I buy more stony corals, that's the real solution.
I'm now scaling back my dose until I see my alk start to lower. It's a race to the bottom and hoping to find the balance. This will lower the starting pH for the day as thus alk uptake will lower at the same time.
Currently, I've cut back my dose to 3hrs every morning (2sec every 10min) to get the pH up. I cannot dose all day/night like I had at first because the alk increase is considerable. This is a big departure from the start where the AFR dose was low (unable to increase) and I could dose alot more NaOH.
Now I'm trying to get my Alk lower because it runs at 10.15 dkh vs. straight AFR at just 7.5 dkh. This seems to illustrate a few things currently about NaOH.
1) It does have a considerable alk impact.
2) It does have a consistent and considerable pH impact.
3) The greater the need for pH increase, the greater the need for a mature/high uptake system to offset the alk input.
Keep in mind my normal pH is ~8. If my normal pH was 8.2 this would be a slam dunk imo. Targeting 8.3 will not work until I buy more stony corals, that's the real solution.
I'm now scaling back my dose until I see my alk start to lower. It's a race to the bottom and hoping to find the balance. This will lower the starting pH for the day as thus alk uptake will lower at the same time.
This seems very similar to Randy’s and Jim’s 2 part recipe they put out in 2017 using sodium hydroxide. I would probably encourage people to use that recipe as it’s quite easy, I used it for a long time.
www.reef2reef.com
New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost
Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...
www.reef2reef.com
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Why did you stop?This seems very similar to Randy’s and Jim’s 2 part recipe they put out in 2017 using sodium hydroxide. I would probably encourage people to use that recipe as it’s quite easy, I used it for a long time.
New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost
Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of...
No you need to do trace separately. All for reef is about the only solution I know of that all the parts can be together. Of course does nothing for ph.
RobB'z Reef
2500 Club Member
Great stuff, love the data. This illustrates all the more why chemicals shouldn't be the primary way to attack pH as they are more scaled to be successful in conjunction with a larger alk uptake life you mentioned. CO2 is the real enemy. I get a lot of people asking me why they can't get higher pH with kalk etc without losing control of alk and they have newer systems with low consumption. It's a great discussion.Update: my AFR dose appears to be stable and is at a significantly higher rate than where I started. Coral health in general is good as well.
Currently, I've cut back my dose to 3hrs every morning (2sec every 10min) to get the pH up. I cannot dose all day/night like I had at first because the alk increase is considerable. This is a big departure from the start where the AFR dose was low (unable to increase) and I could dose alot more NaOH.
Now I'm trying to get my Alk lower because it runs at 10.15 dkh vs. straight AFR at just 7.5 dkh. This seems to illustrate a few things currently about NaOH.
1) It does have a considerable alk impact.
2) It does have a consistent and considerable pH impact.
3) The greater the need for pH increase, the greater the need for a mature/high uptake system to offset the alk input.
Keep in mind my normal pH is ~8. If my normal pH was 8.2 this would be a slam dunk imo. Targeting 8.3 will not work until I buy more stony corals, that's the real solution.
I'm now scaling back my dose until I see my alk start to lower. It's a race to the bottom and hoping to find the balance. This will lower the starting pH for the day as thus alk uptake will lower at the same time.
Aye it’s pretty simple when boiled down. Alkalinity and co2 level are the primary drivers of ph. Just that simple for the most part.
Now where you start to lose people is when supplementing the alk demand the mechanisms of carbonate, bicarbonate or hydroxide (or bacterial conversion of acetate or formate) - but even those just interact with the co2 in the water to raise ph (if they raise it at all which isn’t the case with bicarbonate or organics)
RobB'z Reef
2500 Club Member
Or better yet with a low CO2 level and a really high alk demand the inability to elevate your carbonates with hydroxides to the level you need to.
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Update... I added a "fresh air" line to my skimmer (got it run near an eve but still in the attic space).
Had definitely boosted pH and then the skimmer collection filled and my pH dropped a fair bit more than it had been. The last two days while running my pH has been improving.
Going to wait for it to stabilize some more and start messing with the sodium hydroxide based one alk drops to 9 dkh. Has been at 10 for a couple of weeks.
Had definitely boosted pH and then the skimmer collection filled and my pH dropped a fair bit more than it had been. The last two days while running my pH has been improving.
Going to wait for it to stabilize some more and start messing with the sodium hydroxide based one alk drops to 9 dkh. Has been at 10 for a couple of weeks.
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RSnodgrass
Active Member
Last update for awhile.
Readings have been very stable, dkh stays 9.5 (I'd prefer closer to 9), 440 CA, & 1340 MG.
pH is running consistently 1 Pt higher from the fresh air skimmer line.
Sodium hydroxide only runs for an hour (2sec every 10min) and must have considerable alk impact because the AFR is supposed to run closer to 7.5 dkh. It is still providing a morning pop to the pH, it's unclear how much high end pH impact it has but it does get the pH up to target faster.
My current conclusion is that this method (as a function of using with AFR has minimal benefit unless you are on a high demand system. Dosing anything else that's less toxic and easier to handle would be easier.
If pH woahs are really an issue then dosing an intentional mix from Randy Holmes Farley, where sodium hydroxide is the only alk additive, makes more sense.
For what it's worth I've been having really good growth rates and my AFR consumption rate keeps going up.
Readings have been very stable, dkh stays 9.5 (I'd prefer closer to 9), 440 CA, & 1340 MG.
pH is running consistently 1 Pt higher from the fresh air skimmer line.
Sodium hydroxide only runs for an hour (2sec every 10min) and must have considerable alk impact because the AFR is supposed to run closer to 7.5 dkh. It is still providing a morning pop to the pH, it's unclear how much high end pH impact it has but it does get the pH up to target faster.
My current conclusion is that this method (as a function of using with AFR has minimal benefit unless you are on a high demand system. Dosing anything else that's less toxic and easier to handle would be easier.
If pH woahs are really an issue then dosing an intentional mix from Randy Holmes Farley, where sodium hydroxide is the only alk additive, makes more sense.
For what it's worth I've been having really good growth rates and my AFR consumption rate keeps going up.
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