Sponges & Silicates

[nano reef]

For folks who do not use water already loaded with silicate, I have recommended (and used) regular silicate dosing for many years.

Along with organic carbon dosing to boost bacteria levels, it does appear to promote sponge growth.

Dosnt silicates cause diatoms? Wonder why so many people are trying to get it out of their system? Does adding something new like acrylic frag racks cause diatoms? I have them covering new frag racks and killing of my newly purchased high end zoas!

I also have a new frag tank and thought I should be ready for some zoa transfers but getting all over them so thats what made me really realize that had to be diatoms! I added an anion resin filter to my rodi because BRS said that should help! Havnt hooked it up yet. What are your thoughts on that?


Also you are a proponent of carbon dosing? May I ask what type you use? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to get my no3/po4 down in several tanks that has reached 25,28 and 28. I guess its from the new fish. I do mainly feed pellets but I use a feeding ring and they pretty much catch every drop! I do feed corals Hikari powered coralific delight!


I am also wanting to quit using GFO for po4 so was considering carbon dosing but I also have slow coral growth so also considering a hob fuge (space limited) or maybe a dyi cheato reactor or algae scrubber. I was looking for lowering nutrients and upping ph. Pods would be nice too and help with the diatoms and coral fish food!

I suppose I could just carbon dose and add a Co2 scrubber!

Tring to be cheap since I am adding to 3 tanks! lol

What are your thought on that as well if you dont mind!

Sorry so long yet again! lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dosnt silicates cause diatoms? Wonder why so many people are trying to get it out of their system? Does adding something new like acrylic frag racks cause diatoms? I have them covering new frag racks and killing of my newly purchased high end zoas!

I also have a new frag tank and thought I should be ready for some zoa transfers but getting all over them so thats what made me really realize that had to be diatoms! I added an anion resin filter to my rodi because BRS said that should help! Havnt hooked it up yet. What are your thoughts on that?


Also you are a proponent of carbon dosing? May I ask what type you use? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to get my no3/po4 down in several tanks that has reached 25,28 and 28. I guess its from the new fish. I do mainly feed pellets but I use a feeding ring and they pretty much catch every drop! I do feed corals Hikari powered coralific delight!


I am also wanting to quit using GFO for po4 so was considering carbon dosing but I also have slow coral growth so also considering a hob fuge (space limited) or maybe a dyi cheato reactor or algae scrubber. I was looking for lowering nutrients and upping ph. Pods would be nice too and help with the diatoms and coral fish food!

I suppose I could just carbon dose and add a Co2 scrubber!

Tring to be cheap since I am adding to 3 tanks! lol

What are your thought on that as well if you dont mind!

Sorry so long yet again! lol

Diatoms are rarely a problem in an established tank because silicates are not available enough to allow problematic levels, unless your RO/DI fails or you try to use tap water.

It can happen in new tanks, but I would not be sure what you have is diatoms as opposed to other pests such as dinos or cyano if it is killing something.

Yes, dosing silicates allows diatoms to grow to some extent, which is not a problem, IMO. I found the glass visually clearer when allowing diatoms to grow (with silicate dosing) as opposed to allowing green algae to grow on the glass (when not dosing silicate).

The silicate is also needed by other organisms such as many sponges.

I am a proponent of carbon dosing in many systems, since the bacteria can feed filter feeders such as corals, sponges, etc. I prefer vinegar (less cyano in my tank compared to vodka), but vodka or mixtures of the two are widely popular. For phosphate consumption, algae is often a better bet than organic carbon dosing.

 

[Subsea]

“I am a proponent of carbon dosing in many systems, since the bacteria can feed filter feeders such as corals, sponges, etc. I prefer vinegar (less cyano in my tank compared to vodka), but vodka or mixtures of the two are widely popular. For phosphate consumption, algae is often a better bet than organic carbon dosing.“

@Randy,
I am presently dosing liquid kelp concentrate . I was surprised with 0.3% nitrogen and zero phosphate.. I was not surprised with the large amount of potash. When I sent Gracilaria Hayi to a regional agriculture lab, the N/P ratio was 30/1. Hower, potassium to nitrogen ratio was 5 to 1.

In the worded description of components, many trace elements are listed, then carbohydrates.

Is glucose or DOC considered a carbohydrate.?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

“I am a proponent of carbon dosing in many systems, since the bacteria can feed filter feeders such as corals, sponges, etc. I prefer vinegar (less cyano in my tank compared to vodka), but vodka or mixtures of the two are widely popular. For phosphate consumption, algae is often a better bet than organic carbon dosing.“

@Randy,
I am presently dosing liquid kelp concentrate . I was surprised with 0.3% nitrogen and zero phosphate.. I was not surprised with the large amount of potash. When I sent Gracilaria Hayi to a regional agriculture lab, the N/P ratio was 30/1. Hower, potassium to nitrogen ratio was 5 to 1.

In the worded description of components, many trace elements are listed, then carbohydrates. Is glucose or DOC considered a carbohydrate.?

Glucose is a simple carbohydrate. DOC can be any dissolved organic compound, which would include any dissolved carbohydrate.

I’m not sure how a kelp concentrate is made, but it is odd it does not have more phosphate. Maybe it is in the expected range for organisms, but gets rounded to zero.

 

[crazyfishmom]

For folks who do not use water already loaded with silicate, I have recommended (and used) regular silicate dosing for many years.

Along with organic carbon dosing to boost bacteria levels, it does appear to promote sponge growth.

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley wouod you be able to comment or point me toward a dosing regimen?

I have been dealing with pesky dinos in one tank and started dosing sponge power just two days ago. Going extremely slow but if dosing silicates is beneficial altogether I might adapt it in all my systems.

 

[X-37B]

I have always had a good amount of sponge in all my systems. I have never directly fed them although all my systems fish are well fed.
When I have broke down systems in the past I always find a considerable amount of sponge under the rockwork.
Also never intentionaly added them to my system.
All the sponge came in on the vast amount of live rock I have used and still do use in all my systems.
Currently have visible red, orange, and yellow sponge that came in on my GLR's.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley wouod you be able to comment or point me toward a dosing regimen?

I have been dealing with pesky dinos in one tank and started dosing sponge power just two days ago. Going extremely slow but if dosing silicates is beneficial altogether I might adapt it in all my systems.

Sure:

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

How much and what to dose?​

I’d suggest dosing sodium silicate solution, as it is a readily soluble form of silica. It is very inexpensive. I initially used a high quality laboratory grade, but I’d expect the bulk grades sold to the world at large to be good enough (and I use it now). Remember, you aren’t dosing much, and the solutions available are very concentrated. You may find “water glass’ in certain stores because it is used by consumers for things like preserving eggs. Buying chemicals can be problematic for many people, however, and this hobby chemistry store 43 sells to individuals. Ten dollars (+ shipping) gets you enough to last 150 years of dosing with a 100-gallon tank, so cost is not an issue. I just ordered some from them myself and it came broken open, unfortunately. Some of you may have gotten Christmas presents that had ¾ of a gallon of sodium silicate solution coating them as they passed my package in the mail. Nevertheless, I
still have enough for several years!).

Many “water glass” or sodium silicate solutions are sold with the concentration indicated by “° Baume”. Degrees Baume is a measure of the specific gravity, and values in the 40’s are typical of these concentrated solutions.44 A concentration of 41° Baume equates to 29% SiO2 by weight. Note that the density is high (1.38 g/mL for 41° Baume), so volume measurements should take this into account. Maybe eventually, some of the hobby supplement manufacturers will provide a supplement.

Safety note: Sodium Silicate solution is very basic (high pH). In fact, the pH can be substantially higher than limewater, so it is very corrosive to tissue and to metal devices. Be careful to not spill it on yourself, wear some eye protection, and if you spill it on something metal, wash it. In all cases, extensive washing with water is recommended in case of spills or exposure.

Based on my dosing experience, aquarists are probably safe dosing the equivalent of 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2) once every 1-2 weeks. That is based on the fact that my tank used that much in less than 4 days without having any sort of “bad” reaction. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with starting at a tenth of that and ramping up. And, of course, if you do get too much in the way of diatoms, just back off on the dosing. I presume that all that I added to my tank went into various organisms that us it (sponges, diatoms, etc), but perhaps I have more sponges than other aquarists, and diatoms consequently may be more of a concern in some tanks than in mine.

I’d also advise occasionally checking the soluble silica concentration in the water, in case the demand in your tank is substantially less than mine. If the concentration started to rise above 50 uM (3 ppm SiO2), even in the absence of diatoms, I’d probably reduce the dose rate because that is close to the maximum concentration that surface seawater ever attains.

Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2) dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2). I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area.

 

[Subsea]

I have always had a good amount of sponge in all my systems. I have never directly fed them although all my systems fish are well fed.
When I have broke down systems in the past I always find a considerable amount of sponge under the rockwork.
Also never intentionaly added them to my system.
All the sponge came in on the vast amount of live rock I have used and still do use in all my systems.
Currently have visible red, orange, and yellow sponge that came in on my GLR's.

Kudoes to your post.
I also like Gulf Live Rock. I think any premium diver collected uncured live rock would be full of diversity.including Bryozones & sponges. The ones in the dark side of your rocks are most likely cryptic sponges. I use sponges as part of recycling nutrients.