Nutrient Management by “Old School” Reefer

[Timfish]

From what I've seen over the decades when moving established systems cryptic sponges preffered place to grow is shaded and dark areas behind and under the aquascaping closer to thier food source. Cryptic sumps will grow some sponges but I don't see the density there can be hidden behind and under rocks. Unless a system is set up with very sparse aquascaping and no external filtration and isn't an AIO I wouldn't bother with a canister filter.

 

[besskurz]

I have these growing in my 4gal AIO.
I let this media inside my other tank for some months before starting this AIO tank and it was enought time to start the colony.
It's a very low flow tank though around 50 gph

 

[Patx]

Side view in sump baffle.

 

[Subsea]

I got some "rigid filter mat" for years in my baffle.
I can see some white sponge grown in it.

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Several years ago, I purchased similar mats for breeding live bearers with mollies adjusted to salt water. Now it’s full of pods & worms. I do see sponges on the live rocks in large middle compartment of cryptic refugium.

 

[Subsea]

From what I've seen over the decades when moving established systems cryptic sponges preffered place to grow is shaded and dark areas behind and under the aquascaping closer to thier food source. Cryptic sumps will grow some sponges but I don't see the density there can be hidden behind and under rocks. Unless a system is set up with very sparse aquascaping and no external filtration and isn't an AIO I wouldn't bother with a canister filter.

“Cryptic sumps will grow some sponges but I don't see the density there can be hidden behind and under rocks.“

@Timfish
I have stacked up live rock in my cryptic sump! Does that fill the gap? Cryptic Refugium?

 

[GARRIGA]

I have stacked up live rock in my cryptic sump! Does that fill the gap?

Would sponges live within the spaces provided by large bio-balls with selection based on having the largest void spaces? Thinking that would provide more surface area than rubble or any combination of rock formations.

 

[Subsea]

Would sponges live within the spaces provided by large bio-balls with selection based on having the largest void spaces? Thinking that would provide more surface area than rubble or any combination of rock formations.

I see no reason for bioballs not to work in this application. When Tim & I spoke about using canister filters, his objection was the fact that over time, they tend to leak. Because I don’t open them up after setup, they don’t leak on me. However, I can’t prove how well they work.

 

[GARRIGA]

I see no reason for bioballs not to work in this application. When Tim & I spoke about using canister filters, his objection was the fact that over time, they tend to leak. Because I don’t open them up after setup, they don’t leak on me. However, I can’t prove how well they work.

I understand the leak concern but O Rings are cheap and one could just replace them after each opening. I also construct my canisters so that they aren't frequently opened. Last used was the 90s and at one point stopped using floss and carbon and that went six months plus before I opened it and only because I was dismantling the tank due to work time constrains.

New test tank iteration based specifically on using a canister as I'm designing my main to be closed looped and canisters will be the main filtration. There are ways to prefilter therefore extending maintenance or use them with coarse enough material that natural decomposition will prevent it from clogging. Mulm tends to collect at the bottom of the canister which would be the only component likely needing attention at some point in the future. Can then use other means to filter out finer particulates that are less of an issue to maintain. Could also use coral snow to make the prefilter more efficient. Lots of options yet leaks shouldn't be a unworkable concern.

 

[Subsea]

I understand the leak concern but O Rings are cheap and one could just replace them after each opening. I also construct my canisters so that they aren't frequently opened. Last used was the 90s and at one point stopped using floss and carbon and that went six months plus before I opened it and only because I was dismantling the tank due to work time constrains.

New test tank iteration based specifically on using a canister as I'm designing my main to be closed looped and canisters will be the main filtration. There are ways to prefilter therefore extending maintenance or use them with coarse enough material that natural decomposition will prevent it from clogging. Mulm tends to collect at the bottom of the canister which would be the only component likely needing attention at some point in the future. Can then use other means to filter out finer particulates that are less of an issue to maintain. Could also use coral snow to make the prefilter more efficient. Lots of options yet leaks shouldn't be an unworkable concern.

With respect to MULM, I consider it beneficial. In 25 years of operating a miracle mud filter, the MULM depth has increased by 3/4”; it is spongy to the touch and crawling with worms.

This is what @Paul B says about MULM:

I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be propagated or grown in the dark. I realize most people would immediately get out the sponge, razor blade or grenade to remove it but there is a word I like to use to describe those people. That word is "wrong". Mulm is a natural product that you will find in the sea all over the world. Our tanks run on bacteria, algae and a food chain. Bacteria and a food chain are dependent on having a place to reproduce. Mulm is the perfect place. Rocks and glass are flat surfaces that are only two dimensional. Mulm makes these places three dimensional allowing much more space for bacteria and microscopic organisms to grow and do the macarana. (Then love to dance) Pods, which are needed for any small fish also need to eat and their numbers are directly related to how much food they can get their hands on (or whatever pods use to eat with) The more food, the more pods, the more pods, the easier to keep smaller fish. Larger fish such as copperbands and angels also eat pods.
Many people try to keep fish such as pipefish, mandarins or other dragonettes in a sterile tank and while feeding them a couple of times a day with tiger pods or some other expensive food. Those types of fish will not live for long in such a tank and they certainly won't spawn which I consider the "only" criteria to determine the state of health for any paired fish.
Mulm (after a while, maybe a few years) should grow on the back and sides of glass as well as under rocks.
Here in this picture of my clingfish, the mulm appears green. It is really brownish and that fish is on the side of my tank. I brightened up the picture and turned it sideways because it was in the dark and the fish was hard to see.
There is a thick layer of it on the back of my tank where my mandarins and pipefish like to hunt. My long spined urchin also grazes there most of the time as there is not much algae in my tank for him to eat. He is many years old as are the mandarins and pipefish and they are dependent on this food source.
A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem we have keeping certain fish healthy.
Sterile is good in an operating room but very bad in a tank.



I recently took this off Kauai Hawaii. The rocks are covered in Mulm. You can see a spotted moray eel in the center.



This was in the Caribbean. The mulm provides food for those fry.


This is off a mangrove Island in Key Largo Florida. Notice the growth on the roots.



I know many people will disagree with me. That is fine. But everything I propose I post pictures to back up my theories. None of my ideas come from re-hashed, inside the box rumors.

 

[GARRIGA]

I’m not dissing mulm. I retain it as well and was hoping mineralization would convert that and release the minerals trapped. My point is to when mulm builds up to the extent the canister becomes clogged. When that happens unknown but at some point it will.

 

[Subsea]

I’m not dissing mulm. I retain it as well and was hoping mineralization would convert that and release the minerals trapped. My point is to when mulm builds up to the extent the canister becomes clogged. When that happens unknown but at some point it will.

At some point can be a long time. As I pointed out on MULM accumulation; it took 25 years to increase 3/4”.

 

[Timfish]

“Cryptic sumps will grow some sponges but I don't see the density there can be hidden behind and under rocks.“

@Timfish
I have stacked up live rock in my cryptic sump! Does that fill the gap? Cryptic Refugium?

Oooops, my line should have said “Cryptic sumps will grow some sponges but I don't see the density there that can be hidden behind and under rocks.“

Yes it does Pat.

 

[GARRIGA]

At some point can be a long time. As I pointed out on MULM accumulation; it took 25 years to increase 3/4”.

Just accounting for the fact all systems are different and I prefer to prepare for the worse and glad if it never happens.

Plumb that canister with an external pump and one may never need to open it although not sure what happens if one seeds it with sponges. I'm assuming at some point those might cause clogs but could be wrong. Just considering the potential maintenance points for what I'm planning and what workarounds might be required. Why I'm reestablishing my test tank. Only one way to find out.

 

[besskurz]

"A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem"
That says everything to me.

Once the tank is set in the right direction, let stuff grow.
If you think, no one is siphoning the bottom of the ocean, that's why it thrives.

Here are more sponges