Sick clam, please help!

[Aeiyr]

I have three clams. All maxima. The first two (3 inches and 2.5 inches) are doing great. Healthy and open all the time. A month back I got a little Purple maxima. About 1.5 to 1.75 inches.

I will include photos of when I got it vs now. In the last two weeks it's really closed up and won't extend like before. I suspected PMD, although the other two show no signs. I gave it an rodi water bath for 30 min a week ago, and again 5 days later and still not much improvement. I have also let it bathe in a container of 20% phyto to make sure its getting food. When I do this, I let it sit for about an hour to get what it can before releasing the remaining phyto into the tank.

Really don't want to lose this clam, and ORA purples don't seem very common, and I actually had the help of a rep at ORA to get it to me on a stroke of luck. Any advice would be helpful.

Please note, tank is a nano, and I don't have the space to be able to set up any kind of QT to move the clam, but I do have a mushroom/nem box I can put it in if needed.

 

[therootcause]

It could be the photo perspective but are the rics touching it at all?

Was the RO water brought up to tank temp?

 

[Aeiyr]

It could be the photo perspective but are the rics touching it at all?

Was the RO water brought up to tank temp?

Yes, I have a 2cup measuring cup I use for scooping my salt mix. I cleaned it with RO water, then filled it with RO water and used the handle to "hang/float" it in the display for about a half hour before dip. Then put the clam in, swished it a little and left it for 30 min for both dips. I also went with the cup because it would keep it under lights, in the hopes it would peak open and allow the RO water to get at the mantle.

The ric's are actually new as of last night. I needed to get them off the rack they'd been on for a couple months, and each of the 3 clams is near-ish its own garden. My blue is around rhodactus, my gold is nearby (out of reach) my hammer garden, and last night I adorned this clam area with the rics, making sure to leave a radius larger than the clam in each direction.

Checking my logs from testing yesterday tank parameters are as follows.

Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.3
Alk: 8.6
Cal: 422
Mag: 1615 (I am retesting this today. I do not dose mag, and my salt mixes at 1350 at 1.026. It has never been this high, I think it was test error)
Nitrate: 16.5
PO: 0.02

Nitrate is a bit high but also not really? It's an lps Softie tank with 3 clams. I also have a featherworm and if this was too high one would think the worm would flip out first. Any rate, I will be doing a WC with AF hybrid pro salt which will likely cut it down to around 5-7ppm by the following day.

 

[minus9]

Don't force feed clams, this is a sure-fire way of stressing them out. Why do people insist that clams need to be fed phyto to survive? Also, the lighting requirements for T. maxima and Ricordea vastly different. Can the clam open fully? It looks like it's in between some rocks that might be preventing it from opening? It looks like there's growth, but I'm not sure how new the growth is from the pics? Do you have a FTS so we can see the whole tank and the other clams? Also, PMD starts with recession, not with the clam not opening fully. Have you checked for pests or any signs of tank-mates bothering it?

 

[Aeiyr]

Don't force feed clams, this is a sure-fire way of stressing them out. Why do people insist that clams need to be fed phyto to survive? Also, the lighting requirements for T. maxima and Ricordea vastly different. Can the clam open fully? It looks like it's in between some rocks that might be preventing it from opening? It looks like there's growth, but I'm not sure how new the growth is from the pics? Do you have a FTS so we can see the whole tank and the other clams? Also, PMD starts with recession, not with the clam not opening fully. Have you checked for pests or any signs of tank-mates bothering it?

Clam mantle was receded before the issue of not opening. Started with the tip of the mantle on the right side and has gotten worse. Clam can fully open. And I responded now the clam has opened its shell, but the mantle is still severely receded.

I have not force fed anything. I simply placed it in an environment where it would be able to get at the phyto if it wanted to before the other two clams, the featherworm, and my copepod culture. I've seen multiple posts before where people have suggested giving them time to filterfeed an a place with about 20% phyto to help get it the nutrients it needs if it can't get it from light as a result of PMD. I'll attach some photos of full tank with the other two clams in view.

 

[Tcook]

If those ricordia are happy my guess is that it is not getting anywhere near the amount of light it needs. What lights are you using? What is the par?

 

[minus9]

Is there new growth on the other clams? Again, the lighting required for clams is far more intense than the species of corals you're currently keeping, so there could be a number of factors that caused the clam to recede, but it could've been PMD?

 

[Aeiyr]

If those ricordia are happy my guess is that it is not getting anywhere near the amount of light it needs. What lights are you using? What is the par?

2 ai blade grows. Par in that spot does not exceed 175 for a short peak. Rics are likely moving.

This clam was open and extended on the sand for a couple of weeks before being moved up to the rocks. It is also a very small clam at 1.5 inches. Common knowledge is that clams this small receive very little of their energy from light and rely mostly on phyto at this size for between 65-70% of their energy needs.

This is not a light issue. Lack of light should not cause mantle recession. In fact it should cause hyperextension.

Clams can also survive in lower PAR as long as they are also being supplemented with phyto. So while I appreciate you asking what equipment i have, I'm still going to have to decline that this is a light issue when all three clams have a bright growth band on them, with the other two clams being kept this same way for 4 months.

 

[Aeiyr]

Is there new growth on the other clams? Again, the lighting required for clams is far more intense than the species of corals you're currently keeping, so there could be a number of factors that caused the clam to recede, but it could've been PMD?

Yes, all three clams have a bright growth band. I'm thinking it's PMD, but would have hoped that two ro baths In a week would have helped more. What gets me is that they other two clams show no signs of PMD and open fully, so I'm guessing if it is, it's spread mostly through close proximity/contact?

 

[minus9]

2 ai blade grows. Par in that spot does not exceed 175 for a short peak. Rics are likely moving.

This clam was open and extended on the sand for a couple of weeks before being moved up to the rocks. It is also a very small clam at 1.5 inches. Common knowledge is that clams this small receive very little of their energy from light and rely mostly on phyto at this size for between 65-70% of their energy needs.

This is not a light issue. Lack of light should not cause mantle recession. In fact it should cause hyperextension.

Clams can also survive in lower PAR as long as they are also being supplemented with phyto. So while I appreciate you asking what equipment i have, I'm still going to have to decline that this is a light issue when all three clams have a bright growth band on them, with the other two clams being kept this same way for 4 months.

So there is a lot to unpack here. First, it's not common knowledge that smaller clams need food, in fact, there's no scientific proof that they need to be fed at all in order to stay alive. The whole "they need to be fed" myth is exactly that, a myth. There have been multiple studies that showed clams that were completely devoid of any food were able to grow just fine and compared to clams that had access to food, showed no difference between the two. Clams receive well over 100% of their nutritional energy from light alone. Clam size does not matter in this regard. The only time it's a factor, is when they first settle out after a spawning event and they are just millimeters big and need to acquire zooxanthellae. They do require nitrogen, which they can get from feeding and other means (ammonium, fish poo, nitrate from water directly).
Second, symptoms of lack of light come in various forms, bleached mantle, mantle unable to fully open or extend, no new shell growth, etc. When they starve to death, they start to consume themselves and lack the energy to fully extend their mantle, which gets worse over time. Clams will never survive in lower light situations on feeding alone, it's biologically impossible for them to do this and has been proven time and time again, so don't assume this is the case with your clam. Once they reach the point of no return, there's nothing you can do to stop it.
It could be PMD or some other pathogen, but it could also be the final stages of starvation. Clams can appear to be healthy until they reach a point where they simply can't survive and start to recede. 30+ years of keeping clams and you can see the signs of this all the time. Simply looking at the clams neighbors can tell me all that I need to know about what's going on.
I apologize for being so direct, but I can't tell you how many times I've had this very conversation with other reefers who think they know something because someone else told them something or they read it on a forum. 90% of the time, the clam will tell you everything you need to know. If it is a pathogen and you can't remove the clam from that environment, then there's nothing else you can do. Going forward, I urge you to buy James Fatherree's book on clams (the white book that talks about their care, etc). It's packed full of great information that every clam keeper (or potential keeper) should read/know. It's information that's been vetted by the science community and not someone researching on a forum or just making it up.
I will say this though, I've lost clams that seemed perfectly healthy, then one day they took a turn and died shortly after. It's very hard to watch this happen, especially when you can't do anything about it. But you can arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can, instead of relying on what other people may have said on a forum post or at a LFS. I want nothing more than this clam to survive, that's always my motivation for helping others, as I have a true passion for these amazing animals and want people to be successful with them.
I wish you and the clam luck.

 

[Aeiyr]

So there is a lot to unpack here. First, it's not common knowledge that smaller clams need food, in fact, there's no scientific proof that they need to be fed at all in order to stay alive. The whole "they need to be fed" myth is exactly that, a myth. There have been multiple studies that showed clams that were completely devoid of any food were able to grow just fine and compared to clams that had access to food, showed no difference between the two. Clams receive well over 100% of their nutritional energy from light alone. Clam size does not matter in this regard. The only time it's a factor, is when they first settle out after a spawning event and they are just millimeters big and need to acquire zooxanthellae. They do require nitrogen, which they can get from feeding and other means (ammonium, fish poo, nitrate from water directly).
Second, symptoms of lack of light come in various forms, bleached mantle, mantle unable to fully open or extend, no new shell growth, etc. When they starve to death, they start to consume themselves and lack the energy to fully extend their mantle, which gets worse over time. Clams will never survive in lower light situations on feeding alone, it's biologically impossible for them to do this and has been proven time and time again, so don't assume this is the case with your clam. Once they reach the point of no return, there's nothing you can do to stop it.
It could be PMD or some other pathogen, but it could also be the final stages of starvation. Clams can appear to be healthy until they reach a point where they simply can't survive and start to recede. 30+ years of keeping clams and you can see the signs of this all the time. Simply looking at the clams neighbors can tell me all that I need to know about what's going on.
I apologize for being so direct, but I can't tell you how many times I've had this very conversation with other reefers who think they know something because someone else told them something or they read it on a forum. 90% of the time, the clam will tell you everything you need to know. If it is a pathogen and you can't remove the clam from that environment, then there's nothing else you can do. Going forward, I urge you to buy James Fatherree's book on clams (the white book that talks about their care, etc). It's packed full of great information that every clam keeper (or potential keeper) should read/know. It's information that's been vetted by the science community and not someone researching on a forum or just making it up.
I will say this though, I've lost clams that seemed perfectly healthy, then one day they took a turn and died shortly after. It's very hard to watch this happen, especially when you can't do anything about it. But you can arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can, instead of relying on what other people may have said on a forum post or at a LFS. I want nothing more than this clam to survive, that's always my motivation for helping others, as I have a true passion for these amazing animals and want people to be successful with them.
I wish you and the clam luck.

Pretty long winded way to say "I don't agree so I'm not helping you" thanks anyways.

 

[TokenReefer]

Pretty long winded way to say "I don't agree so I'm not helping you" thanks anyways.

Awe.. Pretty thoughtful response is what I took away from it. Too bad you took it the way you did. Good luck

 

[minus9]

Pretty long winded way to say "I don't agree so I'm not helping you" thanks anyways.

If I didn’t agree with you, I would’ve simply said that and left it alone. I was trying to convey that what you think is going on isn’t so simple and your basis of knowledge on clam care isn’t accurate. Which is why I clearly pointed out the misinformation. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have taken the time to help in the first place. I can tell you from experience, lighting is the number one cause of clam mortality among novice keepers. It’s just simple ignorance with the keeper and I mean that in the classic sense. What appears to be a healthy clam is a clam slowly wasting away and living on borrowed time.

 

[ArachnoJoozt]

This clam was open and extended on the sand for a couple of weeks before being moved up to the rocks. It is also a very small clam at 1.5 inches. Common knowledge is that clams this small receive very little of their energy from light and rely mostly on phyto at this size for between 65-70% of their energy needs.

65 to 70% is a pretty specific number, can you name the source?

This is not a light issue. Lack of light should not cause mantle recession. In fact it should cause hyperextension.

And what would happen when the clam dies or is close to death? Will it keep extending?

You've gotten a long, well written response from someone with a lot of experience, how did you figure he was not trying to help?

 

[minus9]

Aquarium Invertebrates: Tridacnid Clams (Usually) Don’t Need to Be Fed in Aquaria

James discusses the myth that Tridacnid clams must be fed in order to prevent starvation.

reefs.com

 

[TokenReefer]

Literally just watched this yesterday. They jump right into this topic ~2min mark. Maybe this guy's full of it but that's not my take

 

[minus9]

At a depth of 10m on the reef, light intensity is around 600 micro moles. Maximas aren’t found deeper than 10m and most are found 5m or less.

 

[exnisstech]

lighting is the number one cause of clam mortality among novice keepers. It’s just simple ignorance with the keeper and I mean that in the classic sense. What appears to be a healthy clam is a clam slowly wasting away and living on borrowed time.

From my experience I have to say I totally agree with this. Off and on for years I tried keeping clams. Perfectly healthy then gone within days.
Once I invested in a par meter I learned why I could never keep one alive. Coming up a 1 year with mine now so still young but way better than the 1 or 2 months I would get under weak lighting. My Derasa is under 300 par and maxima 350-400. I'm sure there are exceptions where some folks have kept them under low par but that isn't a skill set I posses.

 

[gbroadbridge]

65 to 70% is a pretty specific number, can you name the source?


And what would happen when the clam dies or is close to death? Will it keep extending?

You've gotten a long, well written response from someone with a lot of experience, how did you figure he was not trying to help?

Preconceived ideas about what is wrong and not hearing what they wished to hear would be my guess.

Clams need light and very little else.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Are you sure nothing is/was touching the clam mantle, anything at all? You mention it was a nano tank with not much room. If anything touches it, even a non aggressive coral, it will recede its mantle. Any fish or inverts that may have picked at it?

However, in the long term, I agree the par level is too low and it would not have done well long term.