Serious question - how DO you grow LPS?

[Roberto CRC]

Any depth under led, assuming a basic 14 to 20k spectrum. each light has a different par value. including the Sun. so depth is irrelovant.
http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/conversion-ppf-to-lux/

T5, Led, the sun, different MH bulbs all have a different conversion number. Afet a long time researching I found that 60 is the closest for all led so far.

Mine Is similar to this one. It will let you test higher light levels. https://www.amazon.com/Trendbox-Lux...UTF8&qid=1491844950&sr=8-8&keywords=lux+meter

Milwaukee makes one that can be used under water.
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-In...491845031&sr=8-1&keywords=milwaukee+lux+meter

I only test the top of the tank and estimate the bottom. If you can test the bottom, you'll want about 100 PAR or more generally.

First of all thanks for the explanation.

This theme of the lights is really complete, or so I think.

Now that you mention the Kelvin, what should be the proper Kelvin measure? Or does not this have to do with the PAR that has?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Now that you mention the Kelvin, what should be the proper Kelvin measure? Or does not this have to do with the PAR that has?

Corals are grown sucesfully from 6000k to 24000 kelvin. IMO As long as the light contains enough of the correct spectrum it doesn't matter as long as it has the correct intensity..
LUX is intensity alone. Par is intensity and color.


What I recommend to everybody is to set the color ratios by eye and make the tank look great. Then set the intensity using those ratios. If it is not an extreme ratio setting, it will more than likey grow coral.


I have had only 2 lights, that despite having high intensity would not grow coral well. A par meter will not show why. The meter tells you what you have but not how you got it. (color or intensity or missing color) my guess was missing colors.


A good friend was growing coral in a filterless tank with a home depot(hardware store) Philips 48k led. All had great color and grew like crazy.

 

[JamesP]

So what PAR do you want to shoot for? I know it is a huge variance between different species and I even heard brighter colors like lower PAR as they are from deeper waters usually. If anyone has a list that would be great info. It seems that PAR meters are becoming more popular but there is still no good info on the readings we should be shooting for.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So what PAR do you want to shoot for? I know it is a huge variance between different species and I even heard brighter colors like lower PAR as they are from deeper waters usually. If anyone has a list that would be great info. It seems that PAR meters are becoming more popular but there is still no good info on the readings we should be shooting for.

This is because corals are HIGHLY adaptable to light levels(assuming there are enough nutrients).
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666

I have xenia that are growing out of the water with some palys. They get the same light my acros do(about 600 par).

The basic rule has been get 100 to 200 par on the sand bed(clams like 200+ zoas and others seem fine around 100) and deal with the increase at the top. BUT acclimation to light levels is very important, thus the old school method of start them on the bottom and move them up.

Different lighting sources (t5 mh led) have different characteristics in regards to "penetration". IE an led prob has a lens, a t5 is a "soft source" , MH has different reflectors.

I am really looking for more info on Truly low light coral, ones that will not adapt to higher light.

 

[lou dog420]

Thanks @Jakepen !

Can I get second opinion on this before I start cranking the intensity up (gradually) to 90%?

Anyone welcome to chime in.

If you have experienced with 2 foot cube and Kessil A360WE light would even be better!

#reefsquad @Mattyice008

PS: This Kessil A360WE has been the one and only lighting for the tank since it's establishment date, which approximately 4 years back.

I don't have PAR meter and don't intend to purchase one for this matter; am sure plenty folks out there have similar scenario: Kessil A360WE, 2 foot cube, LPS.

I have 2 360s on my tank that run at 100% for 8 hours a day. I too am seeing little to no growth, going on 1 year. Im not impressed with these lights and want to switch to t5s, just dont have the $$$ right now.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have 2 360s on my tank that run at 100% for 8 hours a day. I too am seeing little to no growth, going on 1 year. Im not impressed with these lights and want to switch to t5s, just dont have the $$$ right now.

The photoperiod may not be long enough depending, or their set too high above the tank. Also chemistry is important.

 

[JamesP]

How deep is your tank? I run the 360w in a 24" deep and par was barely over 100 at the sand. I had to put 4x t5s to supplement. The combo is nice because you get the shimmer of kessil and the blanket of light of t5s. By themselves though, maybe better for a shallow frag tank.

 

[JamesP]

Oh yeah, and im 16" from the water.

 

[James Kanouff]

First I have no flat worms in my system. dip dip dip then six line and springer damsels patrols all the time. Dedicated tank section under my frag system has ultra low flow via a gyre 130 in a 90 gallon tank. The corals are suspended on a egg crate in the middle of the tank with flow in a reverse gyre top to bottom across the floor and back up other side giving good flow in all direction on the frag heads. Entire system volume is 550, DKH 8.7, ca 470, mag 1390, N03 2-5, po4 0, temp 78, lights are cheap china led with blue channel used only at 8 hrs a day on lowest setting at 4" above the water 16 inches from frags. max par is 80-100 in hot spots many spots are 40 ish. Growth is great colors amazing, no feeding. very very gentle almost unnoticeable swaying movement of the polyps. Everything but torches are in this section of my tank system, which i find want more flow and more light than other common LSP. I keep many hammers, frog spawn variations, a 50+head colony of master pallys, various mushrooms varieties , Duncans, long tentacle goniopora, and some bubble corals as well as one delicate scolly in this area. All in groups separated by space from the others. You should always look for living tissue well below the polyp top area and visible down the stems sides. Other wise there declining or already in bad shape. I know a picture is worth thousand words. But I can never get a good shot thru deeper water and the blue light on this system. And honestly folks who's opinion matters to me always ask to see them in person. GL bud, I'd bring down the nitrates and reduce light, give them room, reduce flow for a few weeks. These corals react slowly. I could never keep many other types of corals in the low flow i have in this area, let alone the low light and stinging tentacles all over.

 

[sn2per]

Hi,

I've read almost every post here and there's a lot of advice but I hate not seeing people's results as well.... I'm going to be honest with my post....

I don't dose anything anymore.... I use carbon if I remember to buy it.... I use a filter sock but only one out of the two that I could use and a skimmer...

For me I think the key has been the basic bio load.... I love my tangs and I think that helps the lps

Current fish list

X-large Salfin tang
Pair Chocolate tangs
Kole Eye tang
Caribbean Blue Tang
Six line wrasse
Tassel File fish
Pair Fox faces

In the picture below you can see an almost 24" wide Bi-colour hammer that has grown from a dozen heads, a bubble Coral which is now the size of a basket ball when inflated, half dozen Tri colour BTA's and my monster Heliofungia top left... They are directly fed twice a week using a pellet food.. small LPs pellets and larger Nem pellets... the rest of the food is for the fish twice a day with a flake mixture and 2 cubes of frozen mix once a day...

Now for the honesty.... I don't test I have no idea of the parameters and although I know I have three Gen2pro Radions running the Coral Labs LPS schedule at 70% peak I have no idea what the par is.... and I use the return and a single Mp40qd on my Redsea Reefer 525xl

I do monthly water changes of about 100ltrs....

But what I do every day is make time for tank watching.... I've come to know when Coral types aren't happy I can even judge within a day or two when my bta's will split they have gone from two to six now...

You can see my Acans,blastos,zoas in this picture but they are thriving as well...

What's my point you might be thinking by now.... We'll it's this.... Dosing, lighting,flow,feeding,bio-load,water changes,expensive equipment,testing units.... Take the time to understand your tank use all of the above in moderation to help prove your conclusions but give your tank the time it needs and understand it.... You can spend $$$$$$$ on crap just because.... and for no real reason...

I am prepared to get a bashing for being so relaxed and dismissive of spending rather wasting money on the rest of the crap... however my tank speaks for itself...

Good Luck I hope you see some growth soon...

 

[sn2per]

Couple more pics.

 

[Theo15]

Hi,

I've read almost every post here and there's a lot of advice but I hate not seeing people's results as well.... I'm going to be honest with my post....

I don't dose anything anymore.... I use carbon if I remember to buy it.... I use a filter sock but only one out of the two that I could use and a skimmer...

For me I think the key has been the basic bio load.... I love my tangs and I think that helps the lps

Current fish list

X-large Salfin tang
Pair Chocolate tangs
Kole Eye tang
Caribbean Blue Tang
Six line wrasse
Tassel File fish
Pair Fox faces

In the picture below you can see an almost 24" wide Bi-colour hammer that has grown from a dozen heads, a bubble Coral which is now the size of a basket ball when inflated, half dozen Tri colour BTA's and my monster Heliofungia top left... They are directly fed twice a week using a pellet food.. small LPs pellets and larger Nem pellets... the rest of the food is for the fish twice a day with a flake mixture and 2 cubes of frozen mix once a day...

Now for the honesty.... I don't test I have no idea of the parameters and although I know I have three Gen2pro Radions running the Coral Labs LPS schedule at 70% peak I have no idea what the par is.... and I use the return and a single Mp40qd on my Redsea Reefer 525xl

I do monthly water changes of about 100ltrs....

But what I do every day is make time for tank watching.... I've come to know when Coral types aren't happy I can even judge within a day or two when my bta's will split they have gone from two to six now...

You can see my Acans,blastos,zoas in this picture but they are thriving as well...

What's my point you might be thinking by now.... We'll it's this.... Dosing, lighting,flow,feeding,bio-load,water changes,expensive equipment,testing units.... Take the time to understand your tank use all of the above in moderation to help prove your conclusions but give your tank the time it needs and understand it.... You can spend $$$$$$$ on crap just because.... and for no real reason...

I am prepared to get a bashing for being so relaxed and dismissive of spending rather wasting money on the rest of the crap... however my tank speaks for itself...

Good Luck I hope you see some growth soon...

I agree...alot of problems in this hobby can be seen with the naked eye mostly , when people take the simplicity out or reef keeping that is when money gets wasted and frustration builds..

 

[pickupman66]

Ill have to second the comment form above on the Health of the coral. Look for the polyp tissue to be down the stalk a good ways.

 

[Nicolemcd777]

I would do a couple 25% water changes to bring the nitrates down to 0 because that's where it should be and when you are spot feeding I would turn off pumps so the food doesn't just get blown away

 

[potatocouch]

But what I do every day is make time for tank watching.... I've come to know when Coral types aren't happy I can even judge within a day or two when my bta's will split they have gone from two to six now...

You can see my Acans,blastos,zoas in this picture but they are thriving as well...

What's my point you might be thinking by now.... We'll it's this.... Dosing, lighting,flow,feeding,bio-load,water changes,expensive equipment,testing units.... Take the time to understand your tank use all of the above in moderation to help prove your conclusions but give your tank the time it needs and understand it.... You can spend $$$$$$$ on crap just because.... and for no real reason...

Thanks @sn2per I appreciate your feedback and I did read your post line by line and tried to digest it.

You keep mentioning about "understanding your tank" and "noticing if anything is unhappy" ... and if I can conclude from your post, if you keep corals constantly happy, growth will happen. Am I correct so far?

What I am trying to understand is: what did/do you do if all (some) things are unhappy ? I'm assuming it's when common sense comes in? trial and error? play with wavemaker flow setting, test water params (dose if required), do WC, trial and error with lighting ... basically all those husbandry things?

 

[potatocouch]

I would do a couple 25% water changes to bring the nitrates down to 0 because that's where it should be and when you are spot feeding I would turn off pumps so the food doesn't just get blown away

An update on paramater (as of 14-04-17):
Ca 570
Alk 9.4
Mg 1500
Salinity 1.026
Temp 80
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

Stupid question: reef roids is not Amino Acid, is it?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I would do a couple 25% water changes to bring the nitrates down to 0 because that's where it should be and when you are spot feeding I would turn off pumps so the food doesn't just get blown away

An update on paramater (as of 14-04-17):
Ca 570
Alk 9.4
Mg 1500
Salinity 1.026
Temp 80
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

Stupid question: reef roids is not Amino Acid, is it?

It should be noted that true zeros should generally be avoided. Corals absorb nutrients from the water.

 

[sn2per]

Thanks @sn2per I appreciate your feedback and I did read your post line by line and tried to digest it.

You keep mentioning about "understanding your tank" and "noticing if anything is unhappy" ... and if I can conclude from your post, if you keep corals constantly happy, growth will happen. Am I correct so far?

What I am trying to understand is: what did/do you do if all (some) things are unhappy ? I'm assuming it's when common sense comes in? trial and error? play with wavemaker flow setting, test water params (dose if required), do WC, trial and error with lighting ... basically all those husbandry things?

Sorry for the delay I'm based in the UK and had to go to bed was shattered... Common Sense in this hobby of ours is your biggest weapon... Dip Corals, QT fish (if possible) Acclimation is a key word slowly slowly with water changes, lighting changes flow changes...

Healthy polyp extension, feeding fish a lack of pesky hair algae to be fair even how often you clean the glass can tell you a lot... Remember sunlight helps but that pesky dusty algae on the glass is feeding on the water column... if you cleaning the glass twice a day phosphate and nutrient levels are higher than they should be and or there is too much direct sunlight...

I ran every test there was for the first three months of this hobby nearly 12 yrs ago... It made sense then as I was just starting... I have test kits that are older than my dog just sitting in boxes that really should be thrown away but they cost a lot of money...

Be sure of your water quality always. RO should be zero TDS

If your buying your water in pre mixed ask the supplier for their RO TDS readings and confirm what brand of salt they are using. Different brands offer different levels LPS don't need very high levels so look into that a bit. If you switch salts again do it slowly..

Feeding a mixture of flake and frozen can also add unwanted extra nutrients... if you can defrost and drain your frozen food so the liquid isn't added. With flake/pellet food check out the ingredients and buy the best you can afford.

The lights have just started to come on my tank... Everything is awake and starting to react to the light... it's an important part of my tank awareness... Damage to tissue and mouths can be seen pests in the tank might still be crawling around (a red LED torch is great for stalking the tank at night fish have trouble seeing the red spectrum so in a dark room after lights out you can inspect the tank)

My last point is this.... Every post in this thread has merit in one way or another... I tend to go on a bit and write lots of words (sorry just me) trying to take in everything will be tough but hang in there... I'd be willing to bet that you will find the sweet spot in your system and growth will come just keep a track of the changes you make as you go... that way if they don't work after a few weeks you can change back...

 

[pickupman66]

Not the easiest to see in photos but you can see in the first the very yellow skeleton of my hammer. Then the very light colored polyp flesk leading up to the head. This is at least an inch worth of tissue and is a sign of a healthy euphelia.

That said, I can't keep acans because I don't target feed. I have a pair of scoly and they seem fine with not being target fed. One is new however and needs a bit of help so I'll attempt to feed it cyclopeze.

 

[Evan West]

I run a mixed tank but love my LPS i find that a slightly less sterile tank grows them best, not dirty just not clinically clean or ULN