Royal Gramma scratching

markon87 · Dec 10, 2021

Hi All,

last week I purchased Royal Gramma and placed it in a QT tank. After few days I saw it scratching against the heater and I started copper (copper safe) treatment. Copper lever is on 2ppm according to API test kit. Two days later and I see it scratching every now and then. Sometimes 3-4 times repeatedly. I don't see any white spots and it's eating (brine shrimp) fine. I ordered Prazipro to start in case copper is not the way to go.
Do you have any idea of that can this be and if I need to switch to Prazipro can I still do it since there is copper in the tank?
I'll try to make some video so you can see.

Thanks!

vetteguy53081 · Dec 10, 2021

Something not unusual to see them do. As a safety, you can add ruby rally pro to the tank as a precautionary measure and it’s reef safe

markon87 · Dec 10, 2021

I tried to record the moment when it's scratching but nothing for now. Here is the video that I managed to record when it's feeding:

markon87 · Dec 10, 2021

I managed to catch it scratching against the heater. Sorry that the video is a bit longer and not the greatest quality.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 10, 2021

markon87 said:
I managed to catch it scratching against the heater. Sorry that the video is a bit longer and not the greatest quality.

Grammas often get flukes. They don’t kill fish as fast as protozoans do, so you should run copper and the Prazipro 2x with good aeration. I don’t like to run both together, but some people do.
Jay

markon87 · Dec 10, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Grammas often get flukes. They don’t kill fish as fast as protozoans do, so you should run copper and the Prazipro 2x with good aeration. I don’t like to run both together, but some people do.
Jay

Thank you Jay. I'll probably start with Prazipro tomorrow. So you think 2 rounds of prazi should be ok?
I have an airstone that I could dump inside the tank. Last time I used it, I installed it in the evening just to wake up to see that my fish were dead. So I'm hesitant to use it again. I don't know what happened then.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 10, 2021

markon87 said:
Thank you Jay. I'll probably start with Prazipro tomorrow. So you think 2 rounds of prazi should be ok?
I have an airstone that I could dump inside the tank. Last time I used it, I installed it in the evening just to wake up to see that my fish were dead. So I'm hesitant to use it again. I don't know what happened then.

The fish dying after adding an air stone was coincidental, they must have had some underlying issue.
Prazipro has glycol in it. Bacteria feeds on that, using oxygen in the process. The aeration helps balance that.
Jay

markon87 · Dec 10, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
The fish dying after adding an air stone was coincidental, they must have had some underlying issue.
Prazipro has glycol in it. Bacteria feeds on that, using oxygen in the process. The aeration helps balance that.
Jay

Thank you Jay! I will start with Prazipro and I'll add an airstone too. Hope this gramma ends up in DT

markon87 · Jan 8, 2022

So here is a little update on the Royal Gramma quarantine adventure. After treating the water with Copper Safe for a week I started with Prazipro on the 11th of November. One week of Prazi, then a water change, and then I repeated the treatment with Prazi for one more week. During this period I saw it scratching every now and then during the day. After two weeks of Prazi, I decided to do a water change and add a filter with carbon. The scratching stopped for a few days and almost a week later I noticed the Gramma scratching again. I see it scratching like maybe once a week. The fish is eating, there is no medication in the water, but still occasional scratching.
Not really sure what to do. Should I medicate again with Prazipro or Copper Safe? I also have API General Cure at home and Cupramine.
I will definitely keep the fish in the quarantine tank for a few more weeks. I am just not sure if I should use any medication. Any suggestions?

Jay Hemdal · Jan 9, 2022

markon87 said:
So here is a little update on the Royal Gramma quarantine adventure. After treating the water with Copper Safe for a week I started with Prazipro on the 11th of November. One week of Prazi, then a water change, and then I repeated the treatment with Prazi for one more week. During this period I saw it scratching every now and then during the day. After two weeks of Prazi, I decided to do a water change and add a filter with carbon. The scratching stopped for a few days and almost a week later I noticed the Gramma scratching again. I see it scratching like maybe once a week. The fish is eating, there is no medication in the water, but still occasional scratching.
Not really sure what to do. Should I medicate again with Prazipro or Copper Safe? I also have API General Cure at home and Cupramine.
I will definitely keep the fish in the quarantine tank for a few more weeks. I am just not sure if I should use any medication. Any suggestions?

So - the gramma has only had one week of copper? At a minimum, it should have two full weeks and I usually go 30 days.

However, that is unlikely to be the cause of the continued scratching. Egg laying flukes can be difficult to control with prazi, you need to break the life cycle because the prazi doesn't affect the eggs.

A few options: you could give the fish a 5 minute FW dip. If it stops scratching two days or so later, then you can confirm flukes and go back and hit it with prazi again. Or - you could try hyposalinity in the QT for 30 days - that would handle ich and flukes.

Jay

markon87 · Jan 9, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
So - the gramma has only had one week of copper? At a minimum, it should have two full weeks and I usually go 30 days.

However, that is unlikely to be the cause of the continued scratching. Egg laying flukes can be difficult to control with prazi, you need to break the life cycle because the prazi doesn't affect the eggs.

A few options: you could give the fish a 5 minute FW dip. If it stops scratching two days or so later, then you can confirm flukes and go back and hit it with prazi again. Or - you could try hyposalinity in the QT for 30 days - that would handle ich and flukes.

Jay

yes, gramma was only one week in copper before I switched to prazi because I didn't see it effecting scratching and I didn't see any white spots on the fish. So I thought I am probably treating for the wrong thing.
I see the fish scratching maybe ones every 5 days so I don't think I would see difference after the FW dip. I never did hyposalinity so I don't know if that's too risky for the fish. So I guess it will have to be another round of prazi...

markon87 · Jan 27, 2022

Just a quick update on the story. Didn't see Gramma scratching for a few days so I didn't treat with anything. Left the fish in the QT for few more weeks. Since the gramma ate fine and it was about a month in the QT without any treatment I decided to move the fish to my display tank.
Hope I won't regret...

Breadbox · Feb 8, 2022

Any update on this? Mysterious gramma scratching and discolouration is so incredibly common yet there seem to be no definitive answer to what it is.

markon87 · Feb 8, 2022

Breadbox said:
Any update on this? Mysterious gramma scratching and discolouration is so incredibly common yet there seem to be no definitive answer to what it is.

I moved the Gramma to my DT on 01/22. She is still alive and eating well, she is just a bit camera shy

Not sure if I saw her scratching once. My other fish seems to be fine too.

markon87 · Feb 8, 2022

markon87 · Feb 8, 2022

The whole gang

Sebastiancrab · Feb 8, 2022

Mark, I just recently lost my gramma to flukes. It kept periodically flashing it's gills. Prazi would not work. I have ended up using Ruby Reef Rally Pro and Hydroplex. I would encourage you to purchase both asap and do the 10 minute dip on the gramma. The DT can be treated with the Ruby Reef as it is reef safe. I have ended up moving my fish to a hospital tank because I would rather keep my DT fallow.

markon87 · Feb 8, 2022

Sebastiancrab said:
Mark, I just recently lost my gramma to flukes. It kept periodically flashing it's gills. Prazi would not work. I have ended up using Ruby Reef Rally Pro and Hydroplex. I would encourage you to purchase both asap and do the 10 minute dip on the gramma. The DT can be treated with the Ruby Reef as it is reef safe. I have ended up moving my fish to a hospital tank because I would rather keep my DT fallow.

Hi Sebastian,

sorry to hear you lost your gramma. How long it took flukes to kill your gramma? I am asking because my gramma is not on medications since 25th of December so 45 days. That's why I decided to move her to my DT. However my QT is still running just in case there is some aggression or disease outbreak in my DT.

Also tank you for suggesting those medications, it's worth having them for sure.

Sebastiancrab · Feb 8, 2022

It's taken about a month or more. The original flashing was not often so it's hard to tell how long they were present. I would keep a close eye on your fish. The bad thing is if she has got the bug you will have to treat all your fish.