ReefKeeper's Departure Hurts The Industry

[BigJohnny]

I have been stewing about this for weeks since I found out that Digital Aquatics aka ReekKeeper has finally closed it's doors. Even though it was no real shock because there was no service or updates for a very long time, the official word of their demise still has a significant impact. First, even though there was non existent customer service or updates, there was always hope of someone buying out the company or the parent company taking an interest in it again. So while that was happening many people were still buying and investing in ReefKeeper. So now that the whole thing is dead, and BRS like many other retailers have blown out the remaining inventory, we are stuck with a system that will become harder and harder to find parts for.

The ReefKeeper was perfect for me . Well, it would have been if they could have just improved the web access a bit. The Net Module was an absolute nightmare. I would have liked to be able to access the controls from my iphone and a simple method should not have been that difficult or expensive in today's software availability. Otherwise, I absolutely loved it. It did everything you needed it to do and was expandable at a very affordable price. It was so easy to use as well. Even the controller was easy to navigate. So what now? APEX for a beginning reefer is so difficult to justify with the massive cost. It is a very robust system, industry leader and very high quality system with amazing support. I get that this hobby is very expensive but I think the whole APEX ecosystem is geared towards the high discretionary spending reefer to the very advanced aquarist. I understand that they still have the classic and the junior model that can save some cash. But I think the whole APEX ecosystem can be a little intimidating for new reefers and budget minded aquarists.

There are some other controllers but they seem to be positioned in the middle of the Reefkeeper and APEX cost or not a complete controller option. Tunze seems to be the best replacement option but it does not come with power outlets and seems more geared towards running their own equipment instead of a bare bones generic controller to run any mfg device. Seneye is awesome but it isn't a controller, but more of a monitor.

I was hoping to start a discussion on what ReefKeeper owners are planning on doing and if anyone has any knowledge of a replacement coming to market for the ReefKeeper?

Here's my setup that will be slowly heading out to pasture:

Hey bud, yea it sucks, only controller I've ever used. I have always enjoyed its simplicity. I luckily bought an extra for my qt tank recently so I have a few back up components. After that I will be switching to GHL. I dont trust apex and believe GHL has finer products and better customer service.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm afraid 'investing' in tech from small, boutique manufacturers is always a risk. Even though Neptune is hardly huge in the broader a electronics industry, I bought apex NOT because I necessarily thought it was the best tech but because I thought the company was most likely to persist. Time will tell, of course, but my experiences with hi-end audio equipment from small companies has taught me a good lesson about the value of product support.

 

[roberthu526]

Now Neptune can charge more since there is no competition. We will see how far they go.

 

[vetteguy53081]

A little excitement here but this is by no means the Death of ReefKeeper units. They seem to last forever as long as they are kept dry and away from surges. I/we can find Reefkeeper components and accessories all day long and because of this, prices are driven down.
RK units are Very User Friendly, easy to program and will always be the best Entry Level controllers out there.
I must be a hoarder , as since acquiring two Apex 2016 units, I still re-boxed and kept the RKL units ( not sure why, but likely the reliability and confidence they offer). I may sell them, and I may not but will forever love these units.
THE DEEPEST REGRET WITH ALL THIS , IS THAT THEY DID NOT GIVE A " HEADS UP" AND PREPARE THE MANY DEPENENT OWNERS OF UPCOMING PLANS TO SHUT DOWN, AND MAINLY GIVING ANY OF US A REASON THEY DECIDED TO SHUT DOWN.

 

[Ryanbrs]

I am also disappointed. This was a affordable but more importantly simple option that did what most people needed and without a long manual.

I personally reached out and tried to put them in touch with multiple potential buyers to keep it going but they didn’t seem interested in exploring that. Really odd.

Hopefully someone will fill this affordable and simple space.

 

[BillH]

As with almost any of these companies that put their eggs into a single category or products. They will either get out done or be bought by someone else even if its a competitor to take them off the market like happend here. Thats the problem with putting to much control into these things, always make sure you have a back up plan no matter what kind of controller you have or have been thinking about getting. Eventually, it/they will be gone. Untill there is an open source controller that gains popularity its the odds you take when you play their game.

 

[tacosricos]

I run an RKL on a client's tank and an Apex on my home tank, you really do get what you pay for. I can't say I'm sad or surprised about the demise of DA. It was nice having options, but we need better options.

 

[ca1ore]

Now Neptune can charge more since there is no competition.

Do you really think RK was viewed by Neptune as viable competition (I do not)? I think the demise of RK will have no impact on apex pricing. I'd imagine they're much more concerned with GHL, and the potential for new entrants like ETM or Chinese rip-offs.

 

[Mical]

Yup. And, as I said, the reason I bought one was the price justification that BRS made. Buy a heater controller, a couple of decent light timers, and a power strip, you're in for the same money.

Once you're 'in', and see what controllers can actually do for you, things can change. I'm doing some fairly advanced things with my Apex these days, and I'm quite happy to be doing so. At this point, knowing what I know now, realizing the functionality I get from a controller, the $800 Apex doesn't seem out of line. Even the $1100 GHL isn't really out of line.

At the bottom level, as a replacement for a heater controller and a few timers, well, even the $239 Apex Jr seems a bit steep. Sure, you're getting the benefits of the Fusion web portal, and some expansion capabilities, but if all you're wanting is a safety for your heater and to turn your lights on and off, well, it's a bit much... and the old RKL (if it were dependable!) is much more in that ballpark.

Wireless is _cheap_ to implement these days... IMHO, there isn't a reason in the world that Apex isn't putting wireless in their entire line... except that doing so would likely lower sales of their more advanced model. It's a nice feature. Fortunately, anyone that has a bit of networking knowledge can get around that issue with the classic or Jr. models fairly easily. (The $25 Netgear N300 works real well!)

I'd like to see Apex, or someone, come out with a more modern but similarly priced replacement for the RKL. I wouldn't be in that market any more, since I _like_ the higher end capabilities, but there are many reefers who would be.

I agree 100%. I consider RKL for the cost savings but "black friday sale" swayed me towards Apex Classic and glad I did. I control 2 tanks with one controller and am doing advanced programming I never considered.

 

[mcarroll]

Minimalism is out and "more is better" is de rigueur at this point, so as part of that trend this isn't really surprising.

As much anti-DA posting as we're seeing (which I don't get – they're gone – why post hate – be quietly happy you didn't buy one )

They had a really capable product at an excellent price. Sometimes that's not enough.

It's still a bummer to see a long time community member like DA fall by the wayside.

Haters can just ;Stop.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I am also disappointed. This was a affordable but more importantly simple option that did what most people needed and without a long manual.

I personally reached out and tried to put them in touch with multiple potential buyers to keep it going but they didn’t seem interested in exploring that. Really odd.

Hopefully someone will fill this affordable and simple space.

Sounds like an opportunity for brs
I purchased a used rkl, and a week later the company discontinued their aquarium controller line and shut down their website. There are still a load of reefers selling and trading parts and this controller has worked out very well for me so I'll be keeping it. Still a very good controller and there are people put there you can reach out to for support

 

[Greybeard]

As much anti-DA posting as we're seeing (which I don't get – they're gone – why post hate – be quietly happy you didn't buy one )

My anti-DA posts, and yes, I've made several, aren't about their products, but their service, or lack thereof. I bought my RKL with a normal expectation of some level of support. When I needed it, that support was not available, and yes, I resent it. RKL + PB4 + SLX + pH probe... I consider the entire transaction a huge waste of money, and the single largest mistake I've made in this hobby. It was months AFTER I gave up and dumped my RKL that rumors they had closed their doors started circulating. I am hopeful that my negative posts saved a few people from making the same mistake I made.

If you've got one, and are happy with it, or plan to buy closeout or used DA gear KNOWING that they are closed, hey, that's your call. As long as you know they're not going to be there to support you, fine, you've made an informed decision. I was denied that opportunity.

 

[Ben Henwood]

To be honest, the Apex system isn't that much more expensive than the ReefKeeper was. If you compare feature to feature, it would cost almost the same in RK equipment than the Apex. And what you are really paying for with the Apex is Fusion. Nothing can touch Fusion, not even the DIY projects. I love DIY...but going with something that is tried and true is worth the expense to me.

 

[Ben Henwood]

BTW...In about 3-4 weeks I will have a RKE Plus with several modules (SL2V2, Net and 3 maybe 4 PB4's) for sale. I may even have a RKL laying around. If someone wants to take it off my hands I'll make you a really good deal. Im out of the country right now...but when I get home it will get posted, message me if your interested.

 

[ArowanaLover1902]

Well on the bright side us cheapo second hand people will be waiting like vultures now, people will be moving on to Apex and the works, we'll be buying these secondhand models for cheap.

 

[Ryanbrs]

My anti-DA posts, and yes, I've made several, aren't about their products, but their service, or lack thereof. I bought my RKL with a normal expectation of some level of support. When I needed it, that support was not available, and yes, I resent it. RKL + PB4 + SLX + pH probe... I consider the entire transaction a huge waste of money, and the single largest mistake I've made in this hobby. It was months AFTER I gave up and dumped my RKL that rumors they had closed their doors started circulating. I am hopeful that my negative posts saved a few people from making the same mistake I made.

If you've got one, and are happy with it, or plan to buy closeout or used DA gear KNOWING that they are closed, hey, that's your call. As long as you know they're not going to be there to support you, fine, you've made an informed decision. I was denied that opportunity.

I think there are a lot of people in this boat. Behind the scenes DA was just side project of a larger company and wasn't getting a lot of attention. About twice a year we had meetings on of we should drop the line because no one there answers customer emails or calls and not the kind of business we want to support but in the end it was undeniable that the product provided a lot of value at the price point they were in. Certainly a unique situation but this is why you very rarely saw us talk about the brand or product in the last few years.

Various leaders there have reached out to me on how to grow their business and my input was always increase the cost of the product $10-20 and hire proper customer service. Fact of the matter was the price point they were at couldn't support multiple or even one quality CS agent. IMHO we all want affordable products but we also want proper instructions on how to use them as well as support when we need it. If your price point doesn't allow for the later there is a value mismatch in here somewhere. I realize 80% of the buyers don't need either of those two things and would prefer it was just cheaper but almost no brand will survive one in five customers publicly disappointed with their purchases.

I get that DA's two big value messages were cheap and simple but I am pretty sure at $135 or even $145 they could have maintained the first one and improved the the other but I don't think they agreed. In the end this is very disappointing because they filled a market I don't think anyone will attempt to fill again. Others "might" go after this price point again but I don't think anyone will go after this simplicity again.

 

[Servillius]

Add me to the list of broken hearted folks. I love my Reefkeeper. It’s insanely stable compared to all the alternatives (I never went web).

I’ll add this, I had no idea this was coming. There’s a very slim chance I’m interested in the company if anyone knows who to talk to.

 

[n2585722]

Add me to the list of broken hearted folks. I love my Reefkeeper. It’s insanely stable compared to all the alternatives (I never went web).

I’ll add this, I had no idea this was coming. There’s a very slim chance I’m interested in the company if anyone knows who to talk to.

Dynon Instruments out of the Seattle area.

 

[Rcpilot]

There are many things about the Neptune Apex that I do not like, and as a result, will not get one. Not unless something substantially changes with the way Apex works now.

I'm getting back into the hobby. I'm looking at controllers and the APEX was on my list. I don't want to bring negetive stuff into this thread, but I'd really appreciate your insight. Can you PM me and tell me why you don't like the APEX?

I know NOTHING about controllers. I would be so grateful for an honest opinion of the current market offerings.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

I'm a software engineer and a beginner with reef tanks. I just wanted to chip in and say it is hard to develop cross-platform and web applications (i.e., browser support, iPhone, Android, etc). Yes there are packages that allow you to render a web app natively on the iPhone but that doesn't mean there's a whole load of migrating, adjusting, support, etc to be made to make that possible. A small company like DA could maybe afford in-house development? But outsourcing a project like this is still extremely difficult and expensive due to the very specific nature of the software; this isn't a student web portal or whatever, it's a full blown system that needs development all the way from embedded systems to end user's hardware. And then you having hosting and support costs on top of that.

All I'm trying to say is it must be extremely difficult to make hardware/software succeed in this industry due to the small user base and highly technical nature. For that I applaud the Apex product and team, although it certainly isn't for me -- yet

Sorry, just wanted to offer my .02 as to why this kind of technology is scarce and expensive.