Radium metal halide bulbs will not be produced anymore!

[Madison Reef]

Yea those were mine. Glad you are going to put them to good use. Those are some of the best fixtures ever made, imo.
Here they are in action with a litte halide candy, lol.

I have seen your tanks before and it was one of the reason I decided to go with metal halide. I think you also answered some of my question regarding MH. Thank you for inspiration. It was the right decision!

1 - yes things get marked up for niche markets that are otherwise sold as-is to larger industry. Part of that however is volume based.

2 - without the markups, the vendors selling to THIS hobby would never survive at the low volume they are turning over. At the same time no manufacturer is going to give you the time of day for a small order of 10 bulbs or even 200 bulbs.

3 - There were several companies that were in-fact having bulb runs done with specific phosphors for THIS hobby. A line that was doing thousands of 10K street lamps a day for $20 each has to be paused for the jobber run of 500 lamps with a different phosphor and screen print, etc. The jobber pays $40 per bulb and a job setup fee of some amount that has to be backed into the bulbs as well. Likewise, the aquarium lamp vendor is now taking on huge risk for a SMALL market, so as in point #2 the markup has to be substantial to keep the vendor afloat.

Is there greed involved? Sure, but not to the extent that most of you think.

The calculus is even worse now, as these really are a niche product with no easy means of production. I assume there are still a handfull of poorly spec'd China lamps to choose from if one looks hard enough though.

Best case is one or two shops pop up to do jobber runs of custom lamps. The price will be high, but they will have a small steady stream of business.

So instead of paying for "aquarium specific" bulbs (expect for few brands such as radium ofc), is it possible to find bulbs that are used for horticulture? They use bulbs with 6500k kelvin, but it seems like no one has tried them or I just could not find any info on this forum.

 

[BeanAnimal]

If the bulbs are 400w then you will need an ANSI code m135/155 ballast or 400w electronic ballast. The m80 is for 250w Radium’s.

Correct - I missed that he said 400W. The M80 will draw about 300W - so does overdrive the 250W a bit and that is what gives the color people like. At least at the time, most of the electronic ballasts were lower output (excluding HQI or this with a selectable output).

 

[BeanAnimal]

So instead of paying for "aquarium specific" bulbs (expect for few brands such as radium ofc), is it possible to find bulbs that are used for horticulture? They use bulbs with 6500k kelvin, but it seems like no one has tried them or I just could not find any info on this forum.

Yes, but it ca be a lot of trial and error finding a bulb that is actually good or has a decent life. In fact a large portion of "aquarium" bulbs in the past were exactly that... just random import bulbs with "aquarium packaging. A classic example were the IceCap bulbs. They were whatever IceCap could get their hands on, just random China MH bulbs and if you ordered 6 months apart, likely got bulbs from two different OEMs.

 

[A. grandis]

I have the same model but without the pendants. Pendants does make it look prettier. Wish pendant version is still around.

I actually use 2 x lumen bright mini version on my 75 gallon and it doesn't bother my eyes.

Thank you for keeping it out of this thread. I really do appreciate your decision to do so.

I haven't finished reading your article yet and only skimmed part of it so far but wow very well written article with lots of juice. Thank you so much for sharing this with us!

Oh I see what you mean now. I was mistaken; My apologies.
I agree with you that "for aquarium" sticker should not magically make it more expensive.
It was that you promoted your friend's company despite the fact that there exists another source from UK that sells significantly at a lower price as that said company sells all sorts of bulbs including Radium. To them Radium is just another bulb.

Has anyone tried 6500k bulbs that is intended for horticulture? for example, Hygro 6500k bulbs?

If you paid $90.00 for each Iwasaki bulbs, I'm sorry to say this but you got ripped off. Better find a better source (pun not intended).

My real friend is the truth and what works in practice. That is the reason why I reject any sponsorship of any kind. If this new company starts to mess up and produce less than satisfactory gear, or customer service, I will tell the truth! Facts are facts.
I know the owner because he used to work for Hamilton and I was a Hamilton customer for many years. That's all. I guess we all could call him a friend? Just like anyone here is my friend too, including Oreo and Beananimal. LOL! I have no enemies, thank God. Not even the owners of Eco Tech. Ha!

Hamilton used to make a 65K lamp. I've never tried other 65K over 6 months besides Iwasaki. It's really hard to find the Iwasaki 250's for less than $80.00. The 400's cost less.

 

[X-37B]

I may have posted this here earlier.
The Ushio 7K blue is another choice.
I ran the 600 for awhile and considered using it my new build but changed my mind as I only had one fixture and could not find a matching one. Plus I had 6 ballasts. I ran it for a few months and it grew coralline at an astonishing rate. Coralline grows better in low light, lol.
It was the brightest halide I ever ran for sure.
The one thing I liked was the adjustable ballast. You could run 300,450, or 600watts off the same 600 bulb.
Anyone looking for a 6500-7k bulb should look at this one. Run a few led bars to balance the color. That would be an interesting tank for sure.
They make 250 and 400's also.
Take a look.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Anyone have luck using 20k radiums on Reefbrite 400 watt electronic ballasts? Years ago, I tried to use 250 watt radiums on an original 250 watt Ice Cap electronic ballast to no avail (bulbs would not fire up at all).

I have a stock pile of newer 400 watt Reefbrite electronic ballasts. Hopefully Hamilton 400 watt 20k bulbs will become available again too (or something comparable for electronic ballasts).

I ran radium 250s for a couple years using the reef brite electronic ballasts. They fired just fine and everything ran cooler, PAR was about 10-15% less. Visually, to my eye, I couldn't really tell a difference in color..maybe a little more blue, but not enough to bother me.

 

[Borat]

Now I know my LEDS will burn out in 3 years - I will replace them with metal halide. I heard those are far superior and will outlast any of my LEDs?

Main country export Kazakhstan much oil. Sold by kiloliter so all other measure is same. Lights last 3 to 5 kiloliter.

High grade potassium - is our "OIL" of the economy! Kazakistan is the best country in the world!

 

[Reefering1]

Yea those were mine. Glad you are going to put them to good use. Those are some of the best fixtures ever made, imo.
Here they are in action with a little halide candy, lol.

Talk about sniping.. I been watching these lights(tank) for years. Got shot down a couple times and now they're tied up in my closet awaiting their final destination!! Thanks again bud!! - David

 

[alton]

Thanks for the pictures from those that posted them. The following is a retrofit fixture that contained two 250 SE and one 175 w SE lamps. I ran a small fan to keep the glass tops from getting warm.

and my 300DD with Lumin Brights and Build My Leds

And then my 310 with LED

my 180

At the end of the day run what ever lighting and equipment that works for you and enjoy. For me I care more about the fish, than the corals.

 

[jda]

Anyone have luck using 20k radiums on Reefbrite 400 watt electronic ballasts? Years ago, I tried to use 250 watt radiums on an original 250 watt Ice Cap electronic ballast to no avail (bulbs would not fire up at all).

I have a stock pile of newer 400 watt Reefbrite electronic ballasts. Hopefully Hamilton 400 watt 20k bulbs will become available again too (or something comparable for electronic ballasts).

400w radium were made to be run at about 360w and electronic 400w ballasts drive them very well. 400w Radium should run to spec and look right on those ballasts.

The 250w radium only shares the name is is true HQI - totally different animal. True HQI drives about 330w but when nearly all components were 220v, we got HQI in the US that was close enough - PFO and those AquaMedic ones are pretty close to 330w. If you have ever seen a 20k 250w Radium run on real HQI, you cannot forget it. They do get hot - this is a hot bulb, so have some fans ready, but the output is amazing and nearly as much as other brand's 400w bulbs. Radium on 250 or 275w (HQI setting) get porportionall hot without as much output.

The new 20k Hamiltons were made to look like 20k Radium but they don't get a hot and they don't need a HQI ballast. They look very similar.

 

[djf91]

I agree, and tank size makes alot of difference too. A rimless 20g tank might look crazy with one of those on it, but a sleek/ small led fixture almost disappeared. Most people like what looks cool. The giesmans look awesome over something smaller/ open top

I would say for me it’s just knowing the power of what’s in that big reflector and the capabilities of it for growing SPS and imitating the South Pacific sun. The same way I might enjoy looking under the hood of a 1970 Chevelle SS more than a Tesla. To each their own.

 

[t5Nitro]

I would say for me it’s just knowing the power of what’s in that big reflector and the capabilities of it for growing SPS and imitating the South Pacific sun. The same way I might enjoy more looking under the hood of a 1970 Chevelle SS more than a Tesla. To each their own.

Oh man, out of all the picks, the greatest muscle car of all time gets the light. I like you

 

[djf91]

Oh man, out of all the picks, the greatest muscle car of all time gets the light. I like you

The best. There are some other good ones too

 

[Madison Reef]

My real friend is the truth and what works in practice. That is the reason why I reject any sponsorship of any kind. If this new company starts to mess up and produce less than satisfactory gear, or customer service, I will tell the truth! Facts are facts.
I know the owner because he used to work for Hamilton and I was a Hamilton customer for many years. That's all. I guess we all could call him a friend? Just like anyone here is my friend too, including Oreo and Beananimal. LOL! I have no enemies, thank God. Not even the owners of Eco Tech. Ha!

Hamilton used to make a 65K lamp. I've never tried other 65K over 6 months besides Iwasaki. It's really hard to find the Iwasaki 250's for less than $80.00. The 400's cost less.

I'm glad to hear that you will stand up for the truth. Well I was also a Hamilton customer (for only little more than a year) and that makes him my friend i suppose lol. If he actually brings back Hamilton 20k back in stock again I will treat him my bestie.

Yeah I ordered the original Iwasaki bulb from lighting warehouse (?) for all kinds of lighting. I am not sure why it has not shipped my bulb yet and now I am thinking maybe I got scammed? lol
Luckily it was just one bulb. I will keep it posted!

 

[Reefering1]

I would say for me it’s just knowing the power of what’s in that big reflector and the capabilities of it for growing SPS and imitating the South Pacific sun. The same way I might enjoy looking under the hood of a 1970 Chevelle SS more than a Tesla. To each their own.

I agree. So much engine it's sticking out the hood and you feel it running in your chest.
but it seems the trend has been rimless sterile tanks, minimal light, glow in the dark corals and cool looking pictures to share for likes... the art of building a balanced ecosystem is being lost to quick chemical "fixes" and shortcuts for people to provide what they think corals need. Instead of understanding needs and diy/ experimenting/ innovation/ pure infatuation with these creatures- people seek ready to run, instant gratification status symbols; trying to buy their way to success. Back in the day they figured out that a streetlight(radium) grew the bajesus out of coral. Anybody think that if there was something better, than halides, t5, or led, anybody will figure it out? I don't, the masses want something proven to be sufficient, there is no innovation towards "best". Just money chasing hype. Is mh the "best", I think so, but who knows. Plasma sounded like a good idea, but faded quickly. Maybe it is better but was never optimized because halide uses shunned it into extinction(hmm, sounds familiar) .. who knows, this is human nature. It's hard to change the convinced mind.(especially the smart ones)
Sorry for the rant, this started as a comment on reflectors, my 80 hd may have kicked in. And this gin.
But yea, It's all about the reflector. Easy to visualize by looking into the reflector and seeing dozens of reflections of the bulb. Half the light being produced being bounced back in dozens of angles. I can't imagine any led accomplishing this. Maybe instead of lenses and diffusers, prisms or crystals can bridge the gap.

 

[ogasman]

Anyone have luck using 20k radiums on Reefbrite 400 watt electronic ballasts? Years ago, I tried to use 250 watt radiums on an original 250 watt Ice Cap electronic ballast to no avail (bulbs would not fire up at all).

I have a stock pile of newer 400 watt Reefbrite electronic ballasts. Hopefully Hamilton 400 watt 20k bulbs will become available again too (or something comparable for electronic ballasts).

Hi Tim
I actually tried this last week. I tried a number of 400w mogul bulbs with a ReefBrite 400w E. ballast, simple reflector in a dark room aimed at a white sheet of paper. I got a few of the 20k ReefBrite bulbs on sale and wanted to see how the color compared to the Radiums that I am currently running. The ballast ran all the bulbs without any difficulty. This ballast seemed to take longer to ignite all of the bulbs. Longer than I am used to with other ballasts. It took a few minutes for the bulbs to heat up and achieve good color. All of the bulbs ran fine, no flickering or other issues. The Radiums were the most blue, but the ReefBrites 20k were very close in color. I also tried a Hamilton 14k, and a Ushio 14k ( thanks Tim). Both of these bulbs were very similar in color, and whiter than the ReefBrite. I currently have 400w Radiums on 3 other E ballasts without any issues. Two on Ice Caps, one Coral vue, and a Galaxy.
In my humble opinion, nothing beats the color of a 250w Radium on a M80 old school ballast. I like them better than the 400 w Radiums. That said I have run the 250w Radiums on Ice cap, Lux core, and a few other E ballasts without any incident. Maybe the problem you had was unique to the first generation of Ice cap ballasts.


Paul

 

[jda]

The original IceCap blue MH ballasts were not like the ones today - like when IceCap was it's OG self. It is already dangerous to lump all electronic ballasts together, but these were especially not good at all pulse and probe start bulbs like the more modern ones are.

 

[A. grandis]

Reflector is indeed everything for the best utilization of photons produced by halides, for the best application! It shows in the results, how much distribution you will get out of that bulb. An art in itself, figuring out the right fixture/reflector ,or the best we can get our hands on, to apply for the dimensions to be illuminated, so the photons can be distributed, and at the same time what depth those photons will reach distributing that light equally, as much as possible. The wattage will need to be taking in consideration too, within the plan. Once we have the right application, halides will deliver the real power/quality they can. So the reflector is a lot! BUT... as we know, because the metal halide technology is already in itself so forgiving in many aspects, we can find so many applications that aren't indeed the optimal and still produce the amazing results!! That is a huge plus for us with the low availability of gear we have today! We can also use positioning of the rocks/corals to help to achieve excellent results. Oh man, corals and clams just love metal halides so much!!! But yeah, when the distribution is optimal we see that same evenly distributed colonies that happens under T5s, but with the real boost in growth rate and pigment/ skeleton formation!
Let's talk about the optimal lighting for growth... One thing people don't understand is that the growth rate under halides, normally called "fast" for some species, within the correct application range; offering the best combination using the right wattage/ dimensions/ spectrum differences, and right reflector angles; is basically what happens in nature. The NATURAL GROWTH RATE for some of the species found in shallow water. The metabolism of each species is attached to that natural coral growth rate for that species. It is written in their DNA! That's why we find them in shallow water to start with! To change that, is to change the speed of the natural growth rate! When the less than optimal growth rate is applied, using any type of artificial lighting, we are not offering to that organism what it needs to metabolize and to achieve what it would achieve normally in nature. That is true to ANY organism. Great examples is zoanthids. The worse misconception in this hobby is to say zoanthids "need low light". In reality, the opposite is true, when the great majority of zoanthid species are found exclusively in extremely shallow water environments, exposed in low tides for hours and receiving the powerful sunlight. Those species of zoanthids have extremely healthy colonies in nature because they were designed for that environment! You won't find most species of zoanthids in deeper waters, UNLESS that environment has very clear water for the most part of the year. So, no, they don't "need low light". They can adapt to low light and struggle, and they won't present themselves in their best health! So, health isn't truly subjective at all! I'm not going to discuss about that! Unless people dive frequently and know well the organisms they keep, they can't argue about things like that. Even biologists today don't spend time observing nature like before. They are in their computers writing papers to prove points and get grants. Anyways... When zoanthids are kept under low light conditions, they are extremely prompt to have infections and therefore to melt! "High light" and "low light" terms in this hobby are just for hobby reference, cause comparing to nature we all have low light with the most we could offer for a decent maintenance in a closed system! The very best I could achieve with zoanthids was under metal halides and that was the only time I had a normal spawnings of some of the harder species to be kept in captivity. Those hard to keep species can be maintained with other types of light when food particles are offered to substitute the qualities of energy they NORMALLY get in nature. Not the same though! They just survive a bit better with the food particles we offer. What about shallow water corals? Same thing!
Corals species have their "preferred" geographical area for survival on the reef. In fact most species will ONLY thrive in restricted areas. Flow, water quality and light are the main responsible for that. They will occupy that range and have different growth within that range according to the limiting factors of the environment. Some species that grow on the extreme limits of their ranges will suffer and you will see "die offs" after a while in the colonies. They collapse with their colonies because of their own weight after so much growth happens because the metabolism in some deeper areas change their abilities to form the normal skeleton, without the intensity of light they need, they can't calcify to produce the exact same strength they can in a shallow water environment, to sustain the colony. Plus, they will grow more to enlarge their structure in a more longitudinal pattern, more than they normally do in shallow waters, to obtain higher than normal surface area in order to absorb more light. All that with a slower than normal growth rate written in the DNA of that species. Acropora is a great example of that. Many physical aspects play like for example seasonal density of particles in the water column, the seasonal changes in light, temperature fluctuations and various occasional physical damages for coral growth too. The partial substitution of the light energy is the greater availability of plancton in deeper waters.
The coral larvae needs to find a spot that is "the best" (to it's judgement and limits in that particular time) for the development of the colony. The 2 most important aspects is lighting and substrate. The planula will try to find the best spot within the time it has, and that is the fist step, then the adult colonies will be found later only where those planulae indeed scored with their instinct, or the natural modifications of that environment didn't compromise the growth of the colony. That's one of the reasons why sometimes we find small colonies dead on the reef.
All this to say that in our tanks, we place the coral in the best position we think for the development of that coral, or in that position we want to see it grow. That coral shouldn't be moved in order to enjoy the optimal availability of lighting possible during the process the development of the colony. Part of the stability factor! The colony formation acts as they need according to the environment. So the plan during the set up is very important! The development of the colony needs to follow what it receives since the beginning. To move a colony in the system means changes in the colony's natural guidance of structural formation. That guidance is already in their DNA. That is also why sometimes people don't understand why the corals grow so distorted in aquariums. Another huge mistake is to "frag" corals too frequently. That is why people have colonies with healing marks all over. The art of reefing is getting lost!
There is a very important question we should ask ourselves as reefers about the species we keep in captivity... is the healthiest coral of that species found in the wild as healthy as the one we are keeping? Why not? The definition of a health for a coral is directly related to it's appearance, showing thick tissue, relatively strong and homogeneous skeleton structure, natural strong coloration, and growth rate, according to each species in their natural environment, which makes judgement fairly easy.

Yup, reflectors are very important! That's why we need new different reflectors made for the aquarium industry!!
Gotta love Acros!

 

[Madison Reef]

Some of the very old bulbs I had showed the arc with marks like salt spray and such and when I started for the first time they reacted a bit differently at first, then fired without poblems after that. That is probably the effect of gravity with the components in the arc while in storage for so long. So, in my experience, they will be fine. I guess it would also depend how the bulb was in storage, like temperature, position, etc...

So I received the Iwasaki today without any notice or tracking. The store was not a scam!
It fits the description of @A. grandis as it also has white salt spary like marks inside.
Excited to compare Iwasaki with Hamilton 20K right next to it.

Does the bulb look okay to use??????

The photos were taken before I tried it. Currently burning in.

 

[A. grandis]

The normal need for fragging under metal halides comes only when space calls that need. Notice the health of the coral colonies in this video. Notice the size of the frags to give or sell to his friends!! That should be the nomal in this hobby! Gotta love Acros!