Radium metal halide bulbs will not be produced anymore!

[A. grandis]

Yea I'd say reef tax but it really is more of a hobby tax.
Anyways to be a "bit" helpful.. seem like a nice daylight bulb.
Supposed to use an hps rated ballast though.
This "crossover" (conversion) stuff is getting weird...
Anyways..

Narva G.L.E. – Light, urban lighting, Plant light, HPI, HPS, HPM

NARVA G.L.E. offers a wide range of lighting products for all lighting applications. For example, for street- and plant light interchangeable with all HPS and HPM pre-switch units.

narva-gle.com

The "reef lamps" are already overpriced for the hobby @ $60.00 - $100.00. Their production is supposed to be much less than the mass productions for horticulture, household and such, since back in the day. We used T12/ T8 Philips blue bulbs for reefs too, much cheaper, for example. That was going on since the beginning...

 

[Celestion]

If you got any humidity problems in winter , halide helps solve this , lol

 

[BeanAnimal]

Oh, you're here... Thanks for stopping by.
False?
You want to read more?
Show me any other technology that will give exactly what halides give in terms of the qualities of light and I'll shut up forever.

Begging the question. I don't concede that one needs "exactly" what halides give, that is the whole point.

Show me any result that will be legit (not from bias nor from LED companies!) comparing LEDs, T5s and halides that will be the same.

Same as what? All of the technologies that you listed grow coral.

Show me your corals under LEDs! Be truthful and tell me that you can do the same (or even better) with LEDs that you did with halides/T5s.

Fallacy - too many variables to even bother even if I did post tank photos (I don't), but yes my coral is doing under LEDs. I don't have halides anymore so can't compare directly. My tank looks better now that it has in over a decade.

For most guys that say LEDs are better will be defending their sales!

You are the guy always concerned about "better". Everything is better with butter... unless you don't like butter. Better is a matter of preference. Better at what, exactly?

I'm not alone in this anymore and many are starting to realize that generally speaking LED lighting isn't the OPTIMAL for reefing! It's acceptable.

See above: "Better", "optimal" etc. You speak in superlatives, and are not alone. But what you are missing is that EACH OF US defines value "better, optimal, etc." via our own criteria. Optimal to Bob may be the lamp that doesn't burn his elbow when working in the tank. Better to Suzy may be bluer than blue cool-aid and better to Stan may be low enough power consumption that his wife allows him to have a tank. They all grow coral. Ahh you say "fastest" (more superlatives) growth. Is "fastest" best? Tall spindly? What about slow and thick? But even then, does halide x grow coral "faster" than LED y or T5 z??? You can't answer that, there are too many variables.

I see many wonderful tanks under LEDs, but not quite like under halides. They are just different! And we should be able to choose whatever we want!

Nobody said you shouldn't be able to choose what you want. I simply said that you appear to be incapable of having a lighting discussion without ending every thought with some iteration of "halides are better".

All I posted is the truth!

No, you posted your opinion. It may be your "truth" but you continue to conflate that with fact.

This LED market only wants to put halide down for profit! Everyone can see that!!

The nature of business is to outcompete your competitor.

Oddly "halides" are not your "business" (that I know of), but you are on a mission to put down LEDs. You rant about LED makers aggrandizing (lol ) their product by spinning half truths about halides, yet here you are aggrandizing (lol again) halides by spinning half truths about LEDs. Do you not see that absolute and utter irony here?

Ask Sanjay! Ask Mike!

Are you on a first name basis with them, or is that name dropping for effect? Both are local, Mike Paletta a few miles. Sanjay Joshi an hour or so. While I was a board member, Dr Joshi was a regular fixture at our events. The club has changed and Sanjay does not show up here often and we don't go there as often. Mike Paletta presented not long ago and (as always) was available for club members to chat with afterwards.

Do you really want their answers? Mike Paletta runs Radions. He ran halides for decades. He has indicated (go read/watch for yourself) that the explosion of SPS color in the hobby is partly due to corals coloring up under LEDs. He has been in the hobby long enough to form tested opinions. FWIW he used to fly to California to pick up corals and carry them home, DECADES BEFORE anybody here (with the exception of Paul B) even knew what a reef aquarium was. He is not an LED conspirator, he uses them for a reason.

You copy and paste and cherry pick so much crap that I honestly don't think you really know what any of these people think or believe or when you sources are actually contradicting the superlative point you keep trying to make.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Begging the question. I don't concede that one needs "exactly" what halides give, that is the whole point.


Same as what? All of the technologies that you listed grow coral.


Fallacy - too many variables to even bother even if I did post tank photos (I don't), but yes my coral is doing under LEDs. I don't have halides anymore so can't compare directly. My tank looks better now that it has in over a decade.


You are the guy always concerned about "better". Everything is better with butter... unless you don't like butter. Better is a matter of preference. Better at what, exactly?


See above: "Better", "optimal" etc. You speak in superlatives, and are not alone. But what you are missing is that EACH OF US defines value "better, optimal, etc." via our own criteria. Optimal to Bob may be the lamp that doesn't burn his elbow when working in the tank. Better to Suzy may be bluer than blue cool-aid and better to Stan may be low enough power consumption that his wife allows him to have a tank. They all grow coral. Ahh you say "fastest" (more superlatives) growth. Is "fastest" best? Tall spindly? What about slow and thick? But even then, does halide x grow coral "faster" than LED y or T5 z??? You can't answer that, there are too many variables.



Nobody said you shouldn't be able to choose what you want. I simply said that you appear to be incapable of having a lighting discussion without ending every thought with some iteration of "halides are better".


No, you posted your opinion. It may be your "truth" but you continue to conflate that with fact.


The nature of business is to outcompete your competitor.

Oddly "halides" are not your "business" (that I know of), but you are on a mission to put down LEDs. You rant about LED makers aggrandizing (lol ) their product by spinning half truths about halides, yet here you are aggrandizing (lol again) halides by spinning half truths about LEDs. Do you not see that absolute and utter irony here?


Are you on a first name basis with them, or is that name dropping for effect? Both are local, Mike Paletta a few miles. Sanjay Joshi an hour or so. While I was a board member, Dr Joshi was a regular fixture at our events. The club has changed and Sanjay does not show up here often and we don't go there as often. Mike Paletta presented not long ago and (as always) was available for club members to chat with afterwards.

Do you really want their answers? Mike Paletta runs Radions. He ran halides for decades. He has indicated (go read/watch for yourself) that the explosion of SPS color in the hobby is partly due to corals coloring up under LEDs. He has been in the hobby long enough to form tested opinions. FWIW he used to fly to California to pick up corals and carry them home, DECADES BEFORE anybody here (with the exception of Paul B) even knew what a reef aquarium was. He is not an LED conspirator, he uses them for a reason.

You copy and paste and cherry pick so much crap that I honestly don't think you really know what any of these people think or believe or when you sources are actually contradicting the superlative point you keep trying to make.

Stating that LEDs color up corals better, is an opinion worth thinking about. I think you can see different pigmentation develop dependent on light source, but you’re taking Mike’s statement out of context. The actual pigmentation does not drastically improve. The royal blue LEDs just make them appear more colorful. Just like a purple plus ATI T5 directly over a pink birdsnest will make it appear more pink. You put an acro colony grown out under a 6500k MH and then move it under a strip of royal blue LEDs and it will be just as colorful. LEDs have ushered into the hobby the all blue/dark/black light look…the coral colors aren’t any better, but you can’t argue with the pop and appearance the corals take on.

Mike, Sanjay, Keith/Reefbum, Andrew Sandler, Joe Tusi, Chris Meckley, the late Jake Adam’s, etc…I don’t recall any of them saying leds grow corals faster, in fact I do recall most of them saying that they had to give up/sacrifice some growth when moving to led but are happy with the less heat. Half those names still run MH or went back to them in some capacity. We are talking opinions still though of these individuals…but when you hear enough of the same opinion, weight gets added. Though Andrew at Polo Reef has run a semi controlled experiment, same water, but MH vs Led, and easily concluded better growth and coloration on the MH side. The video is out on YouTube when WWC toured his lab. I haven’t seen another semi-controlled example like it. Is there something better out there that has been done that shows the contrary to Andrew’s observation and findings?

I don’t fully understand how just because one or two of these individuals are local to you changes any of this.

If MH didn’t have the heat byproduct or require bulb changes, you’d be hard pressed to convince any of the big names to keep running led. MH for growth and color, supplemented with led for pop I’d wager would be the ideal choice in the current state of our hobby.

 

[A. grandis]

Begging the question. I don't concede that one needs "exactly" what halides give, that is the whole point.


Same as what? All of the technologies that you listed grow coral.


Fallacy - too many variables to even bother even if I did post tank photos (I don't), but yes my coral is doing under LEDs. I don't have halides anymore so can't compare directly. My tank looks better now that it has in over a decade.


You are the guy always concerned about "better". Everything is better with butter... unless you don't like butter. Better is a matter of preference. Better at what, exactly?


See above: "Better", "optimal" etc. You speak in superlatives, and are not alone. But what you are missing is that EACH OF US defines value "better, optimal, etc." via our own criteria. Optimal to Bob may be the lamp that doesn't burn his elbow when working in the tank. Better to Suzy may be bluer than blue cool-aid and better to Stan may be low enough power consumption that his wife allows him to have a tank. They all grow coral. Ahh you say "fastest" (more superlatives) growth. Is "fastest" best? Tall spindly? What about slow and thick? But even then, does halide x grow coral "faster" than LED y or T5 z??? You can't answer that, there are too many variables.



Nobody said you shouldn't be able to choose what you want. I simply said that you appear to be incapable of having a lighting discussion without ending every thought with some iteration of "halides are better".


No, you posted your opinion. It may be your "truth" but you continue to conflate that with fact.


The nature of business is to outcompete your competitor.

Oddly "halides" are not your "business" (that I know of), but you are on a mission to put down LEDs. You rant about LED makers aggrandizing (lol ) their product by spinning half truths about halides, yet here you are aggrandizing (lol again) halides by spinning half truths about LEDs. Do you not see that absolute and utter irony here?


Are you on a first name basis with them, or is that name dropping for effect? Both are local, Mike Paletta a few miles. Sanjay Joshi an hour or so. While I was a board member, Dr Joshi was a regular fixture at our events. The club has changed and Sanjay does not show up here often and we don't go there as often. Mike Paletta presented not long ago and (as always) was available for club members to chat with afterwards.

Do you really want their answers? Mike Paletta runs Radions. He ran halides for decades. He has indicated (go read/watch for yourself) that the explosion of SPS color in the hobby is partly due to corals coloring up under LEDs. He has been in the hobby long enough to form tested opinions. FWIW he used to fly to California to pick up corals and carry them home, DECADES BEFORE anybody here (with the exception of Paul B) even knew what a reef aquarium was. He is not an LED conspirator, he uses them for a reason.

You copy and paste and cherry pick so much crap that I honestly don't think you really know what any of these people think or believe or when you sources are actually contradicting the superlative point you keep trying to make.

Show me your tank now under LEDs and show me the one you had under halides!

You can get the best picture under LEDs and the worse decent picture under halides.
LEDs are a scam (as in telling lies to the public to promote a product, using other products for easy profit!) Every time you come in aggressively I become rude because you just come with very superficial talk as always. In other threads I posted some substantial info and you ignored, just keep talking about the superlatives I speak. Bold language bothers you, but I'm sorry, it's the truth.
You came here to defend LEDs. Guess what? I have the same right to defend halides and the same free speech!
Everything that I posted in regards to the LED marketing strategies, I proved to be truth, published by me and others for more than a decade. When I called them, I told them I would publish! It's open to the public. Just search and you'll find. They do want to say halides are "dead" and it's an "old technology" as a mantra...
Some people get upset saying that they know for a fact that many famous LED users get them for free and stuff like that... Too bad those guys don't expose fully what they know and how, right? Friendships in the industry... Sponsorships! All marketing strategies. All for money. If they only didn't go against halides and T5s talking about stupid bans and things like that spreading rumors when they publish their videos. Videos sometimes fully and exclusively dedicated to diminish metal halides AND T5s, just promote their LED sales! That's messed up!

Now, when a bulb like Radium is said to be completely out of production, by the manufacturer with an email to prove, and it becomes produced again, halide users do get exited!!!! You know why? Because those guys would never start producing again if there was really no demand, like BrS said in their videos! Than a LED user/defender come to a thread like this do exercise his bias!???? Do you know how many times in my life I go to LED threads? Almost never! Thanks for coming here... I will ask you to go search at home for videos I posted before in this forum showing Mike and Sanjay talking about their opinions on LED X halide recently. Go find Chris Meckley talking about the power of halides as a coral farmer... things like that. I think you saw the video of Jake's answer to "the best light for corals" in Keith's interview... Oh no... let's ignore all that, right?
People used to talk about "WWC is using Radion", as they were the "best coral farmers". All sponsored and $elling Radion too!!!!! Good for them! ... Sanjay... Mike... then when they spoke about halides again every LED user shuts up and don't like them anymore. It's all bias, man.
I use my superlatives as I want!
And most are afraid to say anything. I'm not sure why people are afraid of telling the truth! Everyone knows I have no enemies and a lot of LED friends. I mean... I love my friends. I still tell them the truth if they ask me! Most LED uses! That don't change the facts of light. When Tullio Dell Aquila speaks the truth, people ignore and say "he sells halides". Well... he says LEDs too. Oh man.. don't provoke me. LOL! Go search for his videos and learn some from him too.

Again... most of my friends have LEDs today and they are my friends... To each it's own.
By the way... I was always a strong T5 guy before (I'm still a T5 lover) I went back to defend halides, because of the stupid arguments LED users were shutting down halide users here more than a decade ago... While I used only T5s I always agreed that halides were the best of all! h

Do you think you will win any of these arguments? In what basis? You came to a thread full of metal halide enthusiasts that FINALLY have a space to talk about their excitement and how much they appreciate and how much halides MAKE A DIFFERENCE for them, and how much some of us see how LED propaganda have impacted negatively this hobby with LIES! What you came here for?
You can be impolite, but don't forget anyone can also get down to that category, with all the respect. I'm an old man, like you. Ha!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Stating that LEDs color up corals better, is an opinion worth thinking about. I think you can see different pigmentation develop dependent on light source, but you’re taking Mike’s statement out of context.

I did not state that and did not take any particular statement of Mike’s out of context. The point (context) is that he cited “Mike and Sanjay” as supporting his “halides are better and LED companies are liars” context. Context, is everything

Mike, Sanjay, Keith/Reefbum, Andrew Sandler, Joe Tusi, Chris Meckley, the late Jake Adam’s, etc…I don’t recall any of them saying leds grow corals faster,

I didn’t say they did say that, nor have I argued that they do grow corals faster.

I don’t fully understand how just because one or two of these individuals are local to you changes any of this.

I think you may have missed the point of the response.

If MH didn’t have the heat byproduct or require bulb changes, you’d be hard pressed to convince any of the big names to keep running led. MH for growth and color, supplemented with led for pop I’d wager would be the ideal choice in the current state of our hobby.

If only pigs could fly… We can pretend anything and then guess how it would change things. The reality is that there are “big names” using LEDs for a reason. Just like there are using halides. “Best” is subjective and defined by the circumstances. That IS the point.

 

[A. grandis]

And they can state LEDs as "best" since the beginning to sell?????

Go pay a visit to Mike and ask him. Go see Sanjay too and tell him I was serious when I told him I would go all the way there to clean his sump for free. LOL! I think he believed me and already cleaned his sump and the tank is doing much better... Give them a hug for me, would you?

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

I did not state that and did not take any particular statement of Mike’s out of context. The point (context) is that he cited “Mike and Sanjay” as supporting his “halides are better and LED companies are liars” context. Context, is everything

From @BeanAnimal - "Do you really want their answers? Mike Paletta runs Radions. He ran halides for decades. He has indicated (go read/watch for yourself) that the explosion of SPS color in the hobby is partly due to corals coloring up under LEDs."

Dude, it's not even worth writing back to you...lol. You didn't say this, who did? No need to respond, just send the video/article where he said leds color up corals better.

 

[oreo54]

Most tanks are not farms. Growth speed is not " the only" parameters.
As to colors I keep pretending LEDs came first and wonder how many would " question" the mh color.
I' d wager that even if 6500k Iwasakis were available at wally world for $10 few would probably prefer them for a stand alone use
Heck wasn't even that way in the past.
Needed vho actinics ect.

On that same line I've yet to see anyone using premium white LEDs and with equivalent output as a comparison.
This argument about spectrum has zero actual documented proof as to exactly what part and why would be different.
From an outside observation there may be things like the over abundance of IR that has some effect on growth rates.
Thing is that adds to the increased evaporation rates so no free lunch there.

Certainly nothing in the visible range and UV has always been a double edged sword

Now you want to go into aesthetics..well have at it. Plenty of opinions.

"IF mh didn't have ...." Well " If leds didn't have...." See pointless they do ..for some.
Add to the fact there isn't one mh that is easy to mount over a tank. Btw that very issue was found by brs to be the #1 factor.Go figure huh. Maybe the mh police should go correct them.

See " best" needs parameters.

Oh and to add to this a bit...t5's s have practically zero UV and IR yet they seem to get some sort of pass in this discussion.

Actually the only thing they really got going for them is the " flat field" effect.
That too is a choice. Flat or 3d lighting.

As " great" as mh's are they are deficient for many and require supplementation for many. Adds to the complexity.

Last .. I was going to make some comment about how the " led is a scam" quote but..... eh why.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

"Though Andrew at Polo Reef has run a semi controlled experiment, same water, but MH vs Led, and easily concluded better growth and coloration on the MH side. The video is out on YouTube when WWC toured his lab. I haven’t seen another semi-controlled example like it. Is there something better out there that has been done that shows the contrary to Andrew’s observation and findings?"

I noticed this comment keeps getting skipped over by the many point-by-point responses...if there is something out there where a better observational study was implemented, I'd be interested.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Add to the fact there isn't one mh that is easy to mount over a tank. Btw that very issue was found by brs to be the #1 factor.Go figure

Huh? That is not a fact...

Mounting my MH over my tank took all but a few minutes...ugh, I give up...

 

[oreo54]

Huh? That is not a fact...

Mounting my MH over my tank took all but a few minutes...ugh, I give up...

Soo . Ceiling mount?
You do understand that some people can barely use a screwdriver..

So how much weight you got pulling on the drywall. Ect.

Do you rent?

Sorry this is a big difference from tank mounts .

 

[BeanAnimal]

LEDs are a scam (as in telling lies to the public to promote a product, using other products for easy profit!)

Please indicate how they are a “scam”.

. In other threads I posted some substantial info and you ignored, just keep talking about the superlatives I speak. Bold language bothers you, but I'm sorry, it's the truth.

You have posted your opinion. Your bold language does not ‘bother me’, I am just pointing out that it is silly.

You came here to defend LEDs.

Not by a long shot. I actually have significant interest in the thread and the plight/fate of halides, even if it is unlikely I ever put them over my tank again. I certainly hope that they don’t disappear altogether.

Guess what? I have the same right to defend halides and the same free speech!

You certainly do! My point was that you (obnoxiously) defend them in almost every post you make, even when they are not being attacked. The rest of this is all snowball effect. That was/is the point.

Everything that I posted in regards to the LED marketing strategies, I proved to be truth, published by me and others for more than a decade. When I called them, I told them I would publish! It's open to the public. Just search and you'll find. They do want to say halides are "dead" and it's an "old technology" as a mantra...

“They” is the world moving on, for better or worse, depending (again) on who is defining “better”. It is not a conspiracy.

Some people get upset saying that they know for a fact that many famous LED users get them for free and stuff like that... Too bad those guys don't expose fully what they know and how, right? Friendships in the industry...

You don’t think halide bulbs and reflectors were handed out in the same fashion?

Videos sometimes fully and exclusively dedicated to diminish metal halides AND T5s, just promote their LED sales! That's messed up!

No, it is marketing. See my closing statement.

Because those guys would never start producing again if there was really no demand,

You are confusing niche demand with classical supply and demand. It is great that somebody is taking the risk to supply a tiny market, but the “demand” for halides has gone off of a waterfall and therefore most plants don’t produce them anymore or even have the tooling to do so. Our hobby was supplied by the convenience of a massive industry, it was not an industry.

While I used only T5s I always agreed that halides were the best of all!

The “best” for you, not everybody.

Do you think you will win any of these arguments?

Already did

You came to a thread full of metal halide enthusiasts

I am one too. I prefer the Phoenix 14k over the radiums.

If you go search my 15 year old posts you will find that I railed against LED misinformation and the LEDs “are better” zealots in the early days. Not that they wouldn’t grow coral, but that people were giving them magic qualities and spreading misinformation about both technologies as fact. It wasn’t conspiracy then either, it was just marketing and misinformed people. You are doing the same thing they were, using confirmation bias to argue.

In any case, I am not anti-halide or pro-led but am aware that halides, love them or not are going to be more of a rarity as time goes on.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Soo . Ceiling mount?
You do understand that some people can barely use a screwdriver..

So how much weight you got pulling on the drywall. Ect.

Do you rent?

Sorry this is a big difference from tank mounts .

I'd reckon if you can't use a screwdriver, this hobby may be pretty difficult for you. Tbh, I am not sure how you could mount your leds using L brackets, without a screwdriver or similar device, such as an allen wrench. At this point, I can just see your trying to save yourself.

I don't know why we have to argue about this now. You stated a "fact" which actually wasn't a "fact"...so I simply felt responsible to add some clarity. Not all MH units are hard to mount. I suppose we could get into a dissertation on how to define "hard" vs. "easy" similarly, as to how you want to do the same for "best"...but I'm tired, and this is all semantics, with the point of arguing just to argue.

I am not sure why I need to tell you whether I own or rent and go down another wormhole. You're welcome to pm me and I can respond.

Stating "facts" from BRS projects though is concerning...without at least acknowledging the clear conflict of interest...as if they don't want to sell led units.

 

[BeanAnimal]

"Though Andrew at Polo Reef has run a semi controlled experiment, same water, but MH vs Led, and easily concluded better growth and coloration on the MH side. The video is out on YouTube when WWC toured his lab. I haven’t seen another semi-controlled example like it. Is there something better out there that has been done that shows the contrary to Andrew’s observation and findings?"

I noticed this comment keeps getting skipped over by the many point-by-point responses...if there is something out there where a better observational study was implemented, I'd be interested.

It is interesting for sure. I am not aware of comparable studies, but don’t search for them either. It goes back to what we are defining as “best” and what other controls were in place. Was it power based, par based, spectrum based, etc.?

I did not respond, as I am not here to argue what is “better”. Don’t mistake that for tiring of hearing “halides are best and leds are a scam”.

 

[A. grandis]

Please indicate how they are a “scam”.


You have posted your opinion. Your bold language does not ‘bother me’, I am just pointing out that it is silly.


Not by a long shot. I actually have significant interest in the thread and the plight/fate of halides, even if it is unlikely I ever put them over my tank again. I certainly hope that they don’t disappear altogether.


You certainly do! My point was that you (obnoxiously) defend them in almost every post you make, even when they are not being attacked. The rest of this is all snowball effect. That was/is the point.


“They” is the world moving on, for better or worse, depending (again) on who is defining “better”. It is not a conspiracy.


You don’t think halide bulbs and reflectors were handed out in the same fashion?


No, it is marketing. See my closing statement.


You are confusing niche demand with classical supply and demand. It is great that somebody is taking the risk to supply a tiny market, but the “demand” for halides has gone off of a waterfall and therefore most plants don’t produce them anymore or even have the tooling to do so. Our hobby was supplied by the convenience of a massive industry, it was not an industry.

The “best” for you, not everybody.


Already did


I am one too. I prefer the Phoenix 14k over the radiums.

If you go search my 15 year old posts you will find that I railed against LED misinformation and the LEDs “are better” zealots in the early days. Not that they wouldn’t grow coral, but that people were giving them magic qualities and spreading misinformation about both technologies as fact. It wasn’t conspiracy then either, it was just marketing and misinformed people. You are doing the same thing they were, using confirmation bias to argue.

In any case, I am not anti-halide or pro-led but am aware that halides, love them or not are going to be more of a rarity as time goes on.

Easy to distract replying this way.. cutting the message and answering all out of context...Alright then... search my 15 year posts too and find out why I defend whoever wants halides. Again, all I say is well known.

 

[oreo54]

"Though Andrew at Polo Reef has run a semi controlled experiment, same water, but MH vs Led, and easily concluded better growth and coloration on the MH side. The video is out on YouTube when WWC toured his lab. I haven’t seen another semi-controlled example like it. Is there something better out there that has been done that shows the contrary to Andrew’s observation and findings?"

I noticed this comment keeps getting skipped over by the many point-by-point responses...if there is something out there where a better observational study was implemented, I'd be interested.

Hanging your hat on one amateur " study"?
There was the " coral labs" study that is ignored..

Soo do you have the measurements and standard deviations?

I'd reckon if you can't use a screwdriver, this hobby may be pretty difficult for you. Tbh, I am not sure how you could mount your leds using L brackets, without a screwdriver or similar device, such as an allen wrench. At this point, I can just see your trying to save yourself.

I don't know why we have to argue about this now. You stated a "fact" which actually wasn't a "fact"...so I simply felt responsible to add some clarity. Not all MH units are hard to mount. I suppose we could get into a dissertation on how to define "hard" vs. "easy" similarly, as to how you want to do the same for "best"...but I'm tired, and this is all semantics, with the point of arguing just to argue.

I am not sure why I need to tell you whether I own or rent and go down another wormhole. You're welcome to pm me and I can respond.

Stating "facts" from BRS projects though is concerning...without at least acknowledging the clear conflict of interest...as if they don't want to sell led units.

Not talking about me. Just the gp and what brs said..

Btw historically best has been pretty pro mh and t5.
They dumped both when neither were selling well and just taking up $$$$ space.

That IS how capitalism work.
Sold lots of bulbs though.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Easy to distract replying this way.. cutting the message and answering all out of context...Alright then... search my 15 year posts too and find out why I defend whoever wants halides. Again, all I say is well known.

Nothing was taken out of context, that is 100% inline. If you are distracted, it is your own doing. You said LEDs are a scam. I asked you to explain.

 

[Hawaii hobbyist]

MH for the win. IMO, LEDs just don’t have the punch that halides do and I’ve never seen coloration or robustness under LEDs like MH. It’s not even close. Not saying Leds don’t have some advantages but let’s get real…we are keeping animals that thrive around the equator under a tropical sun. They need that. That’s natural. Anything we can create that somewhat simulates the natural environment should be utilized

 

[oreo54]

MH for the win. IMO, LEDs just don’t have the punch that halides do and I’ve never seen coloration or robustness under LEDs like MH. It’s not even close. Not saying Leds don’t have some advantages but let’s get real…we are keeping animals that thrive around the equator under a tropical sun. They need that. That’s natural. Anything we can create that somewhat simulates the natural environment should be utilized

There is nothing preventing LEDs from emulating sunshine...