Radium metal halide bulbs will not be produced anymore!

[Nonya]

That is right. And what most people don't understand is that a watt is a watt...They think that 400 watts of LED produces less heat than 400 watts of MH...they don't, they produce the exact same amount...if they are both running 400 watts, they are both releasing 1364 BTU...same thing with pumps...I have seen guys who swore that two different pumps pulling the same wattage are heating their water differently...it's impossible...

Watts aren't a measure of heat output, but a measure of power input. LEDs are at least 5 times more efficient at converting electricity to light, meaning less energy wasted as heat.

 

[oreo54]

That is right. And what most people don't understand is that a watt is a watt...They think that 400 watts of LED produces less heat than 400 watts of MH...they don't, they produce the exact same amount...if they are both running 400 watts, they are both releasing 1364 BTU...same thing with pumps...I have seen guys who swore that two different pumps pulling the same wattage are heating their water differently...it's impossible...

Actually it doesn't "exactly" work that way.. At least as I understand it.
First off w MH some of those watts produce IR heating directly to the water. Something LEDs do not do. Second you have conversion efficiency..

Some leds convert more watts to photons not heat.
MH's are good but not as good as the current leds which may or may not be used.

What is the energy conversion of LEDs?


This is a measure of how well a light source converts energy (watts) into light (lumens). The old technology of tungsten incandescent bulbs only had an efficacy of about 15 lumens/watt. Depending on the bulb and the manufacturer, LED technology typically produces 75-110 lumens/watt.

“If 1 watt of electricity is put into a luminaire and 0.5 watt of light comes out, then there is 0.5 watt of heat generated by the luminaire,”

The overall difference (excluding the radiative heat part) is not as great as some believe but is a factor.

While energy conversion efficiency of incandescent lamps is between 10 and 20 percent, highly efficient LEDs currently achieve values between 40 and 50 percent. Nevertheless, this means that 50 to 60 percent of the power is lost as heat.

I wouldn't go near as far as 5x but one can get about 2x. So 1/2 of the energy input (watts) is released as heat since they can be 2x more efficient in producing photons.

Another way to put it is 1W of LED can produce 2x the photons of a Metal Halide.
Add in the more directional and less restrike and other reflector losses plus the production of "arguably" less useless energy (IR >800nm) well you get the picture.

 

[Nonya]

That is right. And what most people don't understand is that a watt is a watt...They think that 400 watts of LED produces less heat than 400 watts of MH...they don't, they produce the exact same amount...if they are both running 400 watts, they are both releasing 1364 BTU...same thing with pumps...I have seen guys who swore that two different pumps pulling the same wattage are heating their water differently...it's impossible...

Watts are a measure of power input (volts x amps), not heat output. LEDs are roughly 5 times more efficient at producing light as output, while halides produce that much more heat as a byproduct of wasted energy. Their efficiency is well known. Nobody would replace a 400W halide with an LED consuming 400 watts.

Sorry, a bit of a duplicate post here. The previous one took several minutes to actually show up, so I reposted.

 

[Pntbll687]

I just got an official email from my friends in Germany at the Radium factory saying that both Radium bulbs (250W and 400W) will not be in production anymore! This is very bad news for those who have been using them for such a long time! Radium bulbs were the best sellers for so many years! When used with the right ballast they produce one of the most spectacular and unique spectrum over any tank! One more way to regress in this hobby is to loose the opportunity of choice! The fact that many vendors have eliminated metal halide gear from their stock/website have contributed to a diminished number of lamps to be sold. Without gear new hobbyists naturally won't be able to try those lamps and with the number of hobbyists growing every day having to choose LEDs, the number of bulbs per percentage of sale will drop accordingly. A very nice market strategy to get rid of the metal halides as a whole. The qualities of the lamp are still the best for many applications, but Radium claims there was a significant "drop in sales".

This isn’t good or bad news, it’s just the natural progression of technology. Complaining about metal halide bulbs not being produced is like complaining cassette tapes aren’t being produced anymore.

You even said in your post “radium bulbs were the best seller for so many years”, key word there is WERE. Just cause they were the best at one point, doesn’t mean they are still the best.

Let’s all take a moment to mourn the death of halides . . . Ok, let’s get back to reality. LED’s are here to stay.

 

[oreo54]

Those SPS looks good ...but this SPS are definitely not high-end corals. Also , growth patterns of SPS that is grown under LED's are weird.

Yea that funny. If LEDS came first you would say the new mh lighting produces weird growth.
I'm sure in the ocean you can find all sorts of weird growth.
MH's are directional and can shadow.
No surprise that a popular light system is not mh alone but MH +

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

This isn’t good or bad news, it’s just the natural progression of technology. Complaining about metal halide bulbs not being produced is like complaining cassette tapes aren’t being produced anymore.

You even said in your post “radium bulbs were the best seller for so many years”, key word there is WERE. Just cause they were the best at one point, doesn’t mean they are still the best.

Let’s all take a moment to mourn the death of halides . . . Ok, let’s get back to reality. LED’s are here to stay.

The only thing to mourn is when our current led fixtures get replaced by the next years version.

 

[Nonya]

Yea that funny. If LEDS came first you would say the new mh lighting produces weird growth.
I'm sure in the ocean you can find all sorts of weird growth.
MH's are directional and can shadow.
No surprise that a popular light system is not mh alone but MH +

As far as the multiple pics go, they were 100% LEDs for several years. The single pic of the meandrina was taken about one month after I switched to all blue LEDs after growing the corals under MH & VHO for a couple of years. The only new growth I experienced with that coral came AFTER switching to blue LEDs.

 

[Yanir34]

Well , here some of my SPS that grows under ATI power module 10×54w bulbs.
there is some mistakes that I have done with this tank , especially at the chemistry section so I'm guessing that they could grow a lot faster .
it's 6 months difference between each photo.
Also , this corals was fragged multiple time during this time period and my tank is pretty young.

 

[Nonya]

The only thing to mourn is when our current led fixtures get replaced by the next years version.

Just like they have been doing for years. Same as TVs, computers, etc.

 

[oreo54]

Funny history..You can "almost" just change t5 to LED
GOOD timing Yanir34...

T5 vs Metal Halide debate answered

When you have a fixture that claims X watts, you have to also consider that (X= Input power). The true power you are using due to inefficiencies such as (Y=magnetic/copper loss) is equal to X+Y. For Example: Metal Halides: Claim: 250w puts out 16500 lumens Actual: 295w total due to...

forums.saltwaterfish.com

Sep 27, 2006

• When you have a fixture that claims X watts, you have to also consider that (X= Input power). The true power you are using due to inefficiencies such as (Y=magnetic/copper loss) is equal to X+Y. For Example:
  Metal Halides:
  Claim:
  250w puts out 16500 lumens
  Actual:
  295w total due to inefficiencies (Y) puts out 16500 lumens
  T5s
  Claim:
  54w puts out 5000 lumens
  Actual:
  62w total due to inefficiencies (Y) puts out 5000 lumens
  What does this mean?
  (2) 250 watt Metal Halides
  you burn 590 watts to get 33000 Lumens with Metal Halides
  (6) 54 watt T5s
  you burn 372 watts to get 30000 lumens with T5s
  Now if you love the Heat, High energy bills and the Shimmer Effect of Halides then the Metal Halide if the fixture for you.
  If you want the most bang for the buck then T5s are the fixture for you.
  I won't get into power compacts or T8s because those are not worth the research. Plus they are not enviroment friendly due to the higher mercury levels.
  All this Data is gathered from the Sylvania + GE 2006 catalogs so you can find out for your own which you want better. I did this because I got tired of people saying "You can only keep this animal with Metal Halides + Chiller." Wrong..... It's not about the Watts per gallon.
  There is also things that contribute to lumen gains/loss, here they are in order of most impact
  reflector design
  Height it is from top of tank
  Y factor
  Operating temp of lamp
  age of lamp

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Just like they have been doing for years. Same as TVs, computers, etc.

Yea, I suppose…expensive bulb replacements I guess are here to stay.

 

[Nonya]

Yea, I suppose…expensive bulb replacements I guess are here to stay.

I prefer DIY, but that's my way of choosing the spectrum I like, plus saving a shot ton of $$$.

 

[Troylee]

Get this thread back on topic! If you wanna argue led vs mh go find one of the millions of threads all about that! This is a mh post nothing to do with leds it’s an argument nobody will win.

 

[Nonya]

Funny history..You can "almost" just change t5 to LED
GOOD timing Yanir34...

T5 vs Metal Halide debate answered

When you have a fixture that claims X watts, you have to also consider that (X= Input power). The true power you are using due to inefficiencies such as (Y=magnetic/copper loss) is equal to X+Y. For Example: Metal Halides: Claim: 250w puts out 16500 lumens Actual: 295w total due to...

forums.saltwaterfish.com

That's magic math in those posts. Craziness.

 

[Nonya]

Get this thread back on topic! If you wanna argue led vs mh go find one of the millions of threads all about that! This is a mh post nothing to do with leds it’s an argument nobody will win.

You mean that the number of big-name MH producers is shrinking? So who's left? XM? Hamilton?

 

[A. grandis]

This isn’t good or bad news, it’s just the natural progression of technology. Complaining about metal halide bulbs not being produced is like complaining cassette tapes aren’t being produced anymore.

You even said in your post “radium bulbs were the best seller for so many years”, key word there is WERE. Just cause they were the best at one point, doesn’t mean they are still the best.

Let’s all take a moment to mourn the death of halides . . . Ok, let’s get back to reality. LED’s are here to stay.

What's your point?

 

[oreo54]

That's magic math in those posts. Craziness.

Yea I have questions but the underlying ratios are somewhat valid.
Anyways the point..Funny huh..

Now if you love the Heat, High energy bills and the Shimmer Effect of Halides then the Metal Halide (is) the fixture for you.
If you want the most bang for the buck then T5s are the fixture for you.

You should know what the answer will be. MH users will say Anything can just live under T5, but if you want stuff to thrive, get MH.

There are 13 pages of a "debate" of x vs y.
bit o/t the watts/gallon "rules" still have some validity. Tuillo backed it up in one of his vids.
Not recommended in this age of relatively inexpensive par meters though.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

I need to stock up on some 250 watt radiums. I think I have two years worth left. Anyone besides Hamilton sell them?

 

[A. grandis]

Hard to understand why some of the LED uses are so insecure and always bring themselves to a thread like this, where only halide users should be interested! LED users... this is a metal halide thread! You are welcome to come here to learn and help, but I don't think us, halide users, are very happy to see what you have to say about your LEDs in comparison. This is a halide thread! Spend your time on LED threads, please. You already have your troubles there!

 

[Nonya]

What's your point?

That Radium halides and cassette tapes aren't being produced anymore.