problem controling a nicrew 50W lamp

[Sral]

Made the changes to the board and not a single flicker, solid as a rock so I would like to document that layout for anyone that wants to run these lights without a robotank, since I think Rob has his working fine but the standard Kessil circuit will not work. Really appreciate you laying that out, thinking I will have three lights and want to control the one light separate from the 2 end lights so I will need to work another one up.

Now back to the problem child, something with that board is whack, I removed the connector on the board and soldered the wire directly and if i tap that board all the lights flicker or light up etc, so something on that board is not solid but not sure what or where it could be, maybe I should re-touch all of the solder joints on the top side, maybe one is cracked but something is not happy...lol.

Will do that in the morning, since I am not sure what else to do at this point....

Yeah, sounds like a cracked solder point.

We know that you were able to measure 5V and the stepped down signal voltages, so I would hazard the guess that the 5V, 24V and GND, as well as the stepped down signal voltages (e.g. those 4 resistors next to the microController) are less likely to be cracked, unless you closed while measuring.

My starting point would therefore be that PS line, the PWM lines, the mystery line with the haphazardly soldered LED and all microController pins.

 

[SpyLand]

FYI, the controls on the front panel only go from 5%-100%, they do not turn the lights off.

Hi, sorry to steel this, but for going off you have to keep pressing the button, like short press makes the 3 preset percentage changes, long press turns that channel off.

I also had one of this NICREW lamps, my was the 100W, looks the same only with a second led board identical from this 50W so doubles it to 100W but I return it.
The design of the driver of this things are too flaky and has some annoying problems if we need nice smooth DIM and lower initial DIM values like 1%, this can't be achieved.
By the time since was new didn't want to open it and change all the design so can I have a proper direct normal PWM control to the leds.

 

[Sral]

Hi, sorry to steel this, but for going off you have to keep pressing the button, like short press makes the 3 preset percentage changes, long press turns that channel off.

I also had one of this NICREW lamps, my was the 100W, looks the same only with a second led board identical from this 50W so doubles it to 100W but I return it.
The design of the driver of this things are too flaky and has some annoying problems if we need nice smooth DIM and lower initial DIM values like 1%, this can't be achieved.
By the time since was new didn't want to open it and change all the design so can I have a proper direct normal PWM control to the leds.

True, that was also a Nicrew, wasn‘t it ? Darnit, completely forgot about that … would be interesting if they used a similar driver to the MT7201 used here, but also with the „wrong“ frequency …

 

[bishoptf]

Hi, sorry to steel this, but for going off you have to keep pressing the button, like short press makes the 3 preset percentage changes, long press turns that channel off.

I also had one of this NICREW lamps, my was the 100W, looks the same only with a second led board identical from this 50W so doubles it to 100W but I return it.
The design of the driver of this things are too flaky and has some annoying problems if we need nice smooth DIM and lower initial DIM values like 1%, this can't be achieved.
By the time since was new didn't want to open it and change all the design so can I have a proper direct normal PWM control to the leds.

Yeah I reported in your other thread I run vipar's on my other tanks and what I usually do is to also run some low wattage led strips that I can use a mosfet and just ramp up and down for moon lights. Then what I do in the morning is ramp them up before turning on the main lights so there is a more subtle blend, plus I like the moon lights at night. All of these black boxes are too bright for moon and a led strip works great, not bright at all and allows me to use them as moon and ramp up and ramp down ending to the main lights.

 

[oreo54]

I patched that one cable but it's still flaky, move that cable and it goes full blast, not real sure which cable is doing it and its just one end, guess I need to at least replace that cable but even when its full blast it ignores the front panel and seems to ignore reef-pi settings, so still lost at this point, lol.

Pwm connection is lost.
Many drivers if that circuit " floats" lights will go to 100%.

No "control" will work .no signal.

 

[oreo54]

Maybe a bit of going backwards will help.
Like what are the drivers?
Should be on the led board.
The 24v on the jack are for going backwards to the controller. I assume coming from the main ps.

Oddly since 3 contact audio jacks short it out you need a 5 v power supply to the controller.

4 just passed voltage to controller.

Now both the err " buttons " and the external controller can feed the dim signal to the led/driver boards one is always redundant BUT you need one to daisy chain.

Well except the button board runs the fans.
24 v or a voltage step down to 12 v ?

Now the button board has limited control.

Now here is the kicker. These lights should be able to plug and play with an Apex
which we know is 0-10v analog signal.

So just convert to 0-10v and Jack up.
Or am I missing something?

Nicrew Hyper Reef Led

Can't wait to hear your feedback. Please keep me updated. Will do. I'm hoping to get the lights running this weekend, I'll post an update once I do.

www.reef2reef.com

See post #257.

Not sure why you are having issues.
I understand the desire to know "what" that board does to the 0-10 volt signal, but it isn't necessary.
Using the driver chips # off the main board may solve that.

The " jack board" besides "passing" the 10v analog down the line it may just convert it to 5 v pwm to pass to the driver.
Circuit like this powered from the main ps (24v) :

Voltage to PWM Circuit, need to understand frequency

This is an off shelf component that might fit my need. Unfortunately the documentation is terrible. It should convert a 0-5v or 0-10v analog to PWM (0-5v/0-10v is a jumper). The analog voltage signal

electronics.stackexchange.com

 

[Sral]

Maybe a bit of going backwards will help.
Like what are the drivers?
Should be on the led board.
The 24v on the jack are for going backwards to the controller. I assume coming from the main ps.

Oddly since 3 contact audio jacks short it out you need a 5 v power supply to the controller.

4 just passed voltage to controller.

Now both the err " buttons " and the external controller can feed the dim signal to the led/driver boards one is always redundant BUT you need one to daisy chain.

Well except the button board runs the fans.
24 v or a voltage step down to 12 v ?

Now the button board has limited control.

Now here is the kicker. These lights should be able to plug and play with an Apex
which we know is 0-10v analog signal.

So just convert to 0-10v and Jack up.
Or am I missing something?

Nicrew Hyper Reef Led

Can't wait to hear your feedback. Please keep me updated. Will do. I'm hoping to get the lights running this weekend, I'll post an update once I do.

www.reef2reef.com

See post #257.

Not sure why you are having issues.
I understand the desire to know "what" that board does to the 0-10 volt signal, but it isn't necessary.
Using the driver chips # off the main board may solve that.

The " jack board" besides "passing" the 10v analog down the line it may just convert it to 5 v pwm to pass to the driver.
Circuit like this powered from the main ps (24v) :

Voltage to PWM Circuit, need to understand frequency

This is an off shelf component that might fit my need. Unfortunately the documentation is terrible. It should convert a 0-5v or 0-10v analog to PWM (0-5v/0-10v is a jumper). The analog voltage signal

electronics.stackexchange.com

Sry, but that's a bit too jumpy to read pleasantly.

I do agree that looking at the driver ICs on the LED board might indeed help and exactly as you pointed out, the driver over in this thread (an MT7201C) ramps the light to 100% as soon as there is no control signal, e.g. floating signal line due to a crack). That's a very good point.

I think you might have missed few parts though. The Signal input board has a 5V regulator itself that's powered off the +24V. The 24V supply on the 4 contact audio jack is overcurrent protected and both the microController on the signal input board and the main supply board can read this overcurrent status through the "PS" pin on the connecting cable.

He did actually connect a 0-10V signal and it didn't work well. On one lamp it worked fine (except for the flicker, which he ws able to resolve), but the other lamp doesn't seem to accept the 0-10V input signal either which way.

The issues probably arrive from either a damaged component or a damaged solder joint.

The "jack board" or "signal input board" is stepping down 0-10V to half, measures that and sends a likely 5V PWM to the main board. We have analyzed that so far.

 

[bishoptf]

Maybe a bit of going backwards will help.
Like what are the drivers?
Should be on the led board.
The 24v on the jack are for going backwards to the controller. I assume coming from the main ps.

Oddly since 3 contact audio jacks short it out you need a 5 v power supply to the controller.

4 just passed voltage to controller.

Now both the err " buttons " and the external controller can feed the dim signal to the led/driver boards one is always redundant BUT you need one to daisy chain.

Well except the button board runs the fans.
24 v or a voltage step down to 12 v ?

Now the button board has limited control.

Now here is the kicker. These lights should be able to plug and play with an Apex
which we know is 0-10v analog signal.

So just convert to 0-10v and Jack up.
Or am I missing something?

Nicrew Hyper Reef Led

Can't wait to hear your feedback. Please keep me updated. Will do. I'm hoping to get the lights running this weekend, I'll post an update once I do.

www.reef2reef.com

See post #257.

Not sure why you are having issues.
I understand the desire to know "what" that board does to the 0-10 volt signal, but it isn't necessary.
Using the driver chips # off the main board may solve that.

The " jack board" besides "passing" the 10v analog down the line it may just convert it to 5 v pwm to pass to the driver.
Circuit like this powered from the main ps (24v) :

Voltage to PWM Circuit, need to understand frequency

This is an off shelf component that might fit my need. Unfortunately the documentation is terrible. It should convert a 0-5v or 0-10v analog to PWM (0-5v/0-10v is a jumper). The analog voltage signal

electronics.stackexchange.com

Yeah my thread is kind of long and winding but I've always had a circuit that was sending 0-10v that was working, just doesn't work with the nicrew light. I picked up a used one on ebay and plugged my circuit in and it worked fine (well I had a flicker issue but in general it controlled the light). My nicrew was one of the early editions before they had a controller and I never tested it, well I did and couldnt get it to work so I keep running in manual mode and couldnt really tear it down since it was my only light over my frag tank. I eventually got a kessil (which my control circuit works just fine on also) and was able to take the Nicrew apart and have determined that it works manually but not via the input board, something is wrong with that board and lately I have noticed that if I just tap the board or flex the wires the lights will flicker, go high etc..so something is not happy on that board and I would prefer to fix it if possible so I can continue to use the light.

But I am still not sure what the issue is so still trying to figure that out with help from everyone, I am in the process of a new build and wanted to use the light but I want 3 units and really want to be able to control them. I think my next thing is to touch the solder joints but starting to think its more than that, the board looks bent, is it possible that the board itself has been damaged causing a trace to be bad etc?

 

[Sral]

Yeah my thread is kind of long and winding but I've always had a circuit that was sending 0-10v that was working, just doesn't work with the nicrew light. I picked up a used one on ebay and plugged my circuit in and it worked fine (well I had a flicker issue but in general it controlled the light). My nicrew was one of the early editions before they had a controller and I never tested it, well I did and couldnt get it to work so I keep running in manual mode and couldnt really tear it down since it was my only light over my frag tank. I eventually got a kessil (which my control circuit works just fine on also) and was able to take the Nicrew apart and have determined that it works manually but not via the input board, something is wrong with that board and lately I have noticed that if I just tap the board or flex the wires the lights will flicker, go high etc..so something is not happy on that board and I would prefer to fix it if possible so I can continue to use the light.

But I am still not sure what the issue is so still trying to figure that out with help from everyone, I am in the process of a new build and wanted to use the light but I want 3 units and really want to be able to control them. I think my next thing is to touch the solder joints but starting to think its more than that, the board looks bent, is it possible that the board itself has been damaged causing a trace to be bad etc?

It’s definitely possible that traces are damaged, although I think this less likely since thin traces of copper are pretty elastic, whereas tinned pins and solder are rather brittle in comparison.

Try measuring the signals on the pH Connector while bending the board a little, that should help identify the problematic parts and traces.

 

[bishoptf]

It’s definitely possible that traces are damaged, although I think this less likely since thin traces of copper are pretty elastic, whereas tinned pins and solder are rather brittle in comparison.

Try measuring the signals on the pH Connector while bending the board a little, that should help identify the problematic parts and traces.

Yeah, I think some component is toast but just tapping the board and it flickers the lights, which I think means its one of the PWM traces. I didnt have time yesterday to touch the joints, water changes and a run to get some snails etc, just not enough time in the day, lol...

 

[oreo54]

This looks like a pretty dodgy repair ..

 

[bishoptf]

This looks like a pretty dodgy repair ..

Yup and that was factory..there was another one on the other side also....all done at the factory..again this board never worked from the start and I should have made them replace it but they had no controller and I just thought the one that I made up was not correct but I know now it was this board...

Scroll down in that pic and you will see they are even missing a capacitor, lol.

 

[Sral]

This looks like a pretty dodgy repair ..

Yeah, the more I look at this the more I think this might be the reason why this doesn't work ... as the pins on that side are connected to this 24V supply / jack detection mechanism that feeds some signal back to the pins to detect whether a TRS or TRRS plug has been inserted.

If that screws up the "jack is in, you can go" signal, it can not work for obvious reasons ... looks like an LED though. Why would that be connected there ? @Tom Bishop Have you ever seen it light up ?

 

[bishoptf]

Yeah, the more I look at this the more I think this might be the reason why this doesn't work ... as the pins on that side are connected to this 24V supply / jack detection mechanism that feeds some signal back to the pins to detect whether a TRS or TRRS plug has been inserted.

If that screws up the "jack is in, you can go" signal, it can not work for obvious reasons ... looks like an LED though. Why would that be connected there ? @Tom Bishop Have you ever seen it light up ?

Not sure I follow, what do you mean light up? The light works when connected manually from the front panel, just does nothing when something is plugged into the jack...I see no led's on the board at least what I can see...

Oh I think you are saying you think that is an led, if it is it does not work...is that the question?

 

[Sral]

Not sure I follow, what do you mean light up? The light works when connected manually from the front panel, just does nothing when something is plugged into the jack...I see no led's on the board at least what I can see...

Oh I think you are saying you think that is an led, if it is it does not work...is that the question?

Pretty much. Not sure what it is supposed to be, but it does look like it could be one and if it’s dead, it might screw up the signals.
Lots of IFs though.

 

[Sral]

Not sure I follow, what do you mean light up? The light works when connected manually from the front panel, just does nothing when something is plugged into the jack...I see no led's on the board at least what I can see...

Oh I think you are saying you think that is an led, if it is it does not work...is that the question?

If you power up the board, what voltage do both sides of this „could be an LED“ read ?

 

[bishoptf]

Pretty much. Not sure what it is supposed to be, but it does look like it could be one and if it’s dead, it might screw up the signals.
Lots of IFs though.

I can take it out for sure... I have a hotair station and should be able to remove it fairly easily, lol....

 

[bishoptf]

If you power up the board, what voltage do both sides of this „could be an LED“ read ?

I took a voltage across the mystery component, I think that is what you were wanting me to do, 3.6v with + coming form the processor. If I tap on the board it flickers all the leds, the other thing I notice that if if it goes high meaning full brightness then the controls on the front panel do not work...

Or did you want me to get voltage for each side, sorry...let me know I took the voltage across vs each side, I can do that also, will post back...

I see 5v on the processor side and 1.39v on the other side...

 

[oreo54]

I'm sticking with the jack board is nothing but 2 analog to Pwm converters based on a 555 type timer, a 10 v ( control signal from say apex) bypass to the next light and a 24 v line to power the add on controller.

Which chip on there do you think is a microcontroller?

There should be one on the push button board though.

Voltage regulator is to change 24v to what the 555 needs

Large resistor to limit 24c current.

 

[bishoptf]

I'm sticking with the jack board is nothing but 2 analog to Pwm converters based on a 555 type timer, a 10 v ( control signal from say apex) bypass to the next light and a 24 v line to power the add on controller.

Which chip on there do you think is a microcontroller?

There should be one on the push button board though.

Voltage regulator is to change 24v to what the 555 needs

Large resistor to limit 24c current.

I really do not care one way or the other, I'd just like to get it to work, right now the input board does nothing..