Power Generation and Storage

[siggy]

BRS talks about a power outage

 

[JoshH]

@siggy what are your thoughts on salt water batteries?? They are a very slowly emerging technology but seem REALLY promising.

 

[User1]

When I first stopped by this thread I was thinking you are talking about getting to positive solar generation and storage in battery units similar to Tesla's.

It is a good goal if one can generate positive energy and save for during the evenings or off generation windows. That is our battle now actually because during this time of year we are generating more and I'd like to store that for after hours...Anyway good article thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Hope all is well!

 

[siggy]

@siggy what are your thoughts on salt water batteries?? They are a very slowly emerging technology but seem REALLY promising.

This is actually news to me, I will look into it. I remember making batteries in grade school out of salt water and alum-foil.

Anyway good article thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Thank you.

 

[JoshH]

This is actually news to me, I will look into it. I remember making batteries in grade school out of salt water and alum-foil.
Thank you.

It is a very new technology and I believe the fluid in the battery is technically saline. But they call them salt water batteries. To my knowledge only one company is making them and the only real downside to them is they are very large for the charge they store.

 

[RobW]

Great article and very interesting timing!
I set up an appointment with an electrician 2 weeks ago to get a appraisal on a LP powered automatic standby generator provided and installed. He just left and I log on and see this article. What he has proposed is a Generac Guardian Series generator. View attachment 1003298
He's a certified Generac rep so I can get a free 7 year parts and labor warranty by buying thru him. The unit has a maximum delay from power out to power restored of 30 seconds, most likely less than 30 seconds. He calculated the entire house load and this unit will keep my home fully functioning in the event of an outage. I already have a 500 gallon LP tank that's filled monthly so I'd be covered for an extended outage no worries. I'm a plumber by trade so I'll make the gas connection.
I figure the value of the livestock I have in my 240 reef, 30 cube and 40 breeder frag tank far exceed what the entire package will cost. Kind of a no brainer for me.

I'm an electrical contractor in Florida. I sell Kohler and Generac. My wife and I bought a new house 3 years ago. First thing i did was was change the service on my house and install a generator. I have a 48kva Kohler. It backs up my main 200 amp panel. Non-important stuff is in the other 150 amp panel.

 

[siggy]

I have a 48kva Kohler. It backs up my main 200 amp panel. Non-important stuff is in the other 150 amp panel.

;Wideyed Nice size House

 

[RobW]

;Wideyed Nice size House

Not huge. I have a detached garage and added extra power for all my tools and for a future pool, etc.

 

[Variant]

For those in the northeast, maybe look into fuel cells. Natural gas lines are usually underground and less likely to have disruptions in service because of a storm compared to electrical lines. Just an idea.

 

[siggy]

I'm an electrical contractor in Florida. I sell Kohler and Generac.

Hey seeing that your in the mess of things, Care to add or correct anything? always learning.
also take a look at this when you have time https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/power-quality-and-surge-protection.558689/

 

[siggy]

maybe look into fuel cells.

Have they come far enough to become feasible?
Remember "Plug Power" I know a lot of folks lost their butts on that stock.

 

[Tastee]

We have a good household solar power industry down under in Australia and I had a 6.6 Kw system fitted earlier this year. So at the moment when the sun shines my tank costs me $0 in electricity. Excess electricity I generate gets sold back to the grid.

I made sure my system is battery ready and has outage protection. Within 12 months (when battery prices drop a little more) I plan to put in a battery to run the house overnight when the sun isn’t shining. At that point I hope my tank (and house) electricity costs approach $0.

This will also allow me to use the outage protected circuit in my solar inverter. I already have my aquariums on a separate circuit, so I will move the fridge onto that circuit also and then install a VSR to automatically switch it to the solar inverter’s outage protected circuit if there is a power outage to the grid. That will give me battery backup from the solar battery for as long as I have charge (initially plan to put in a 10K VA battery, can always add a second).

It may not be intuitive but in a standard solar system, even without a battery, the solar power is cut to the house if there is an outage to the grid. This is to stop household solar systems electrocuting the engineers fixing the grid. That is part of the reason there is a separate outage protected circuit on the inverter.

 

[RobW]

We have a good household solar power industry down under in Australia and I had a 6.6 Kw system fitted earlier this year. So at the moment when the sun shines my tank costs me $0 in electricity. Excess electricity I generate gets sold back to the grid.

I made sure my system is battery ready and has outage protection. Within 12 months (when battery prices drop a little more) I plan to put in a battery to run the house overnight when the sun isn’t shining. At that point I hope my tank (and house) electricity costs approach $0.

This will also allow me to use the outage protected circuit in my solar inverter. I already have my aquariums on a separate circuit, so I will move the fridge onto that circuit also and then install a VSR to automatically switch it to the solar inverter’s outage protected circuit if there is a power outage to the grid. That will give me battery backup from the solar battery for as long as I have charge (initially plan to put in a 10K VA battery, can always add a second).

It may not be intuitive but in a standard solar system, even without a battery, the solar power is cut to the house if there is an outage to the grid. This is to stop household solar systems electrocuting the engineers fixing the grid. That is part of the reason there is a separate outage protected circuit on the inverter.

My generator automatically transfers over. As soon as there is an outrage, the generator starts. And as soon as the generator spools up it transfers automatically and power is restored. The transfer switch takes the house off the grid so the lineman are not affected by energized lines. As soon as the generator senses that utility power has been restored it will transfer back over and go into cool down mode. Then it shuts down. The generator also exercises itself every week for 15 minutes.

 

[siggy]

It may not be intuitive but in a standard solar system, even without a battery, the solar power is cut to the house if there is an outage to the grid. This is to stop household solar systems electrocuting the engineers fixing the grid. That is part of the reason there is a separate outage protected circuit on the inverter.

Are you saying that, The community has a Shared Solar network? if so an Isolation Contactor much like a lighting contactor thats magnetically held would easily fix that. Im not really versed in Solar other than the basics but it seems that a Auto transfer switch has to be in play at some point due to these hazards.
One another Note: any talk over there about a separate DC grid in the home 12 or 24 volts to power lighting and electronics? The bricks and power supplies are waist-full, Solar creates dc converts to ac then we plug in adapters
back to dc for all the electronics. Led's, TV's CPU's all use low voltage DC to operate, not to mention the the Torq thats produced from a true DC motor. Now getting Back to Fuel Cells, I can see a single DC power supply powering a home in the future. Tesla got transmission write but Edison may have been write and ahead of his time....
Thoughts Anyone?

 

[RobW]

Are you saying that, The community has a Shared Solar network? if so an Isolation Contactor much like a lighting contactor thats magnetically held would easily fix that. Im not really versed in Solar other than the basics but it seems that a Auto transfer switch has to be in play at some point due to these hazards.
One another Note: any talk over there about a separate DC grid in the home 12 or 24 volts to power lighting and electronics? The bricks and power supplies are waist-full, Solar creates dc converts to ac then we plug in adapters
back to dc for all the electronics. Led's, TV's CPU's all use low voltage DC to operate, not to mention the the Torq thats produced from a true DC motor. Now getting Back to Fuel Cells, I can see a single DC power supply powering a home in the future. Tesla got transmission write but Edison may have been write and ahead of his time....
Thoughts Anyone?

I'm actually working on a house right now that has been a customer of ours since 2004. Originally the main house that was built was just over 9,000 square feet and was valued just under 8 million. It had a 600 amp service. 2 years after the house was built, the house next door came up for sale. The owner purchased the house next door for 5.2 million and bulldozed it. He wanted to build a guest house on the property and expand the summer kitchen on the main house. He had all the plans drawn up, submitted for permits and was ready to start the construction. Just as we were ready to start, the house next door to that came up for sale as well. He also purchased that house for right around 5 million and bulldozed that. He made the builder stop moving forward. He ended up having the guest house built on the third lot. Had a huge garden now in between the two houses. We ended up with a 1000 amp electrical service on the house with a 150kva generator to back up the entire property. Also, at the time we installed a Gray's Power System's battery backup/power conditioner on the house that way the electronics that run the home would never go off line in an outage. To understand the capacity of what is going on with this property is ridiculous! The entire house is operated by Crestron. We have a movie theater in the guest house that was just over a million dollars. We also have an outdoor theater that we built where a 20 ft. Screen comes out of the ground. All the speakers come out of the ground. Three tables where you sit come out of the ground and one of them houses a projector for the movie screen. Basically the house has now cost about 30 million dollars to get it to where it is today. Unfortunately last September, even with whole house surge, lighting arrestors on the house, etc. There was a lightning strike. Lighting hit a 40ft tall royal palm tree in the front corner of the yard at the end of the main driveway. There is a concrete column there with a light on top of it. Lighting hit causing a huge surge of power to also hit that light on the column. It blew the light clean off the column, shattered the PVC pipe underground and melted all the jackets off the wiring. That surge traveled backwards into the house and electrical service destroying just about every piece of electronic equipment in the home. The surge traveled over 350 feet to the other side of the property blowing out the controls on a 1000 amp transfer switch, the controller on the 150kva generator, and even blew the metal boxes out of being encased in the concrete dock pilings at the back of the property. 21 out of 27 TVs in the house were damaged. The entire lighting control system was damaged in the main house. The touch panels for the control system fried. You name it! The worst damage that I have ever seen from lightning even with all the stuff in place to prevent and arrest such things. Theres no protection from a direct hit. We are still sorting out all the mess and bringing the house back online. Luckily it is just a vacation home and not a full time residence. Insurance company had forensic electrical engineers out there. What a nightmare! Almost a million dollars in electronics and electrical damage! So everyone who wants to move to Florida... beware of lighting! Lol

 

[siggy]

So everyone who wants to move to Florida... beware of lighting! Lol

You cant escape the wrath of God ....BTW What does his Reef tank look like
thanks for story and your retirement plans

 

[TheHarold]

We just got this submarine installed!! Also in Florida

 

[RobW]

We just got this submarine installed!! Also in Florida

Wow! That's like a 1000 gallon tank

 

[TheHarold]

Wow! That's like a 1000 gallon tank

Precisely! It's currently in the ground and filled with propane for a Generac. We're waiting on one more permit fix before it can be finished up! Very excited. During Irma, for 14 days I was refilling a small 3000w generator every 6 hours. For my reef, a fridge, a bunch of fans, internet router, etc. A bit traumatized... definitely need AC xD

 

[siggy]

filled with propane for a Generac

Wow! That's like a 1000 gallon tank

A Gent mentioned that running Generators During a Hurricane is hazardous due to water/flood home damage and horizontal rain, saltwater ect. How do you protect from these conditions, your client isn't going to stand for that.