Apex Controlled Battery Backup Solution?

[spawn79]

This reminds me I should start using my bank of 48V LiFePO4 batteries - I have several kWh just on a shelf. Was going to use them less for backup (don't lose power here) but for solar generation time shifting - the tank runs into the evening and it would be nice to be purely or mostly solar powered

Well get on it! Especially since you spent a small fortune on those batteries. That kind of setup is pretty simple too. It's crazy how popular it is these days so there are all kinds of resources online for learning. No expensive companies putting panels on your roof. DIY all the way and amazon for the parts.

 

[theatrus]

I'll make sure to mention that with the dual input module (coming soon, I promise!) the DCBuddy can do this port switching too. Different setup, and your control isn't from the APEX, but a different way to maybe slice the problem.

 

[theatrus]

Well get on it! Especially since you spent a small fortune on those batteries. That kind of setup is pretty simple too. It's crazy how popular it is these days so there are all kinds of resources online for learning. No expensive companies putting panels on your roof. DIY all the way and amazon for the parts.

Oh, the AC grid tied panels are already on the roof (all 13kW). Just grid tied batteries are not cost effective for my utility for their lifespan. These... were much cheaper batteries and would exist entirely on the DC side.

 

[bakbay]

I used to run an APC UPS with Apex Fusion code to detect power loss from above. However, as you mentioned, AC to DC conversion is inefficient so only good for ~4hrs. If you have Ecotech gear (which most of mine are) you can do something like below. All my tanks have at least one MP40/MP60 connected to LiFePO4 batteries. It can run the tank for 36-40hrs, no Apex/controllers necessary.

DIY Bootleg "EcoTech" Battery Backup

Decided to make my own instead. BTW, I'm a huge fan of EcoTech products, just not the battery backup. Not feeling like soldering (and I have a background in micro-soldering), I decided to make it a plug and go system right off the shelves of Amazon (mostly). Been working great for a year and...

www.reef2reef.com

https://a.co/d/0GcUYkj

 

[spawn79]

I saw that thing. Pretty intriguing actually considering I've thought about setting up home assistant. But in this case I'm trying to cut down on failure points too. Having the apex control everything is bad enough but something has to do it somewhere.

 

[spawn79]

I used to run an APC UPS with Apex Fusion code to detect power loss from above. However, as you mentioned, AC to DC conversion is inefficient so only good for ~4hrs. If you have Ecotech gear (which most of mine are) you can do something like below. All my tanks have at least one MP40/MP60 connected to LiFePO4 batteries. It can run the tank for 36-40hrs, no Apex/controllers necessary.

DIY Bootleg "EcoTech" Battery Backup

Decided to make my own instead. BTW, I'm a huge fan of EcoTech products, just not the battery backup. Not feeling like soldering (and I have a background in micro-soldering), I decided to make it a plug and go system right off the shelves of Amazon (mostly). Been working great for a year and...

www.reef2reef.com

https://a.co/d/0GcUYkj

That's about the only reason why ecotech was attractive to me at first is the ability to go into power save mode based on voltage. The friggin price tag on them however is a bit to rich for my blood. While my setup can get kinda pricey I can also drive my main pump and keep the sump alive along with the display.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

I will say, depending on how you plan to do things when a power loss occurs….you may want to add a lag/cushion for items such as a skimmer. I initially had my apex turn the skimmer back on immediately after power was restored to the apex brain, but found this would overflow the skimmer due to changing water level in sump and other gear ramping up still after power came back online. I now have a 10 minute lag in place so the skimmer doesn’t turn back on until things have stabilized in the sump. I guess in short…do a lot of testing and mimic quite a few power failures.

 

[bakbay]

That's about the only reason why ecotech was attractive to me at first is the ability to go into power save mode based on voltage. The friggin price tag on them however is a bit to rich for my blood. While my setup can get kinda pricey I can also drive my main pump and keep the sump alive along with the display.

My frag tank has a Vectra S2 so with a booster cable (available on their website) you can get the sump going. However, I don’t feel it’s needed it in an emergency — I don’t need the skimmer / heater anyway where I’m at. Without circulation, many things will die!

You can buy MP40qd’s used for $250. I like these wavemakers (have 6 running) — besides the built-in battery backup connection, it lasts a long time and very easy to clean the wet side. Above all, no wires inside the tank!

Good luck with your DIY project!

 

[bakbay]

I will say, depending on how you plan to do things when a power loss occurs….you may want to add a lag/cushion for items such as a skimmer. I initially had my apex turn the skimmer back on immediately after power was restored to the apex brain, but found this would overflow the skimmer due to changing water level in sump and other gear ramping up still after power came back online. I now have a 10 minute lag in place so the skimmer doesn’t turn back on until things have stabilized in the sump. I guess in short…do a lot of testing and mimic quite a few power failures.

I do a few things wrt skimmer protection:
1. Delay for 5min
2. AutoAqua skimmer sensor (below) to protect against overflow (very important if you run recirculating CO2 scrubber)
3. Turn off due to high pH (hit 8.53 several times due to new CO2 scrubber media replacement)

Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output RtnPump_3 = OFF Then OFF
If FeedA 005 Then OFF
Defer 005:00 Then ON
If pH > 8.55 Then OFF

https://a.co/d/7XxUiPg

 

[Peanut]

The brain has a 12v input. In my case I would hook that up to DC backup. When the brain senses 120v power loss at the eb832 then it would trigger programming to shut off/turn on whatever ports needed.

I think this works a little differently...You would plug the EB832 into the UPS and the 12v into the wall....when the APEX senses the power loss at the wall you can programmatically shut things off on the UPS'ed EB832

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

RIB “Relay In a Box.” Just pay attention to which wires to hook up for the Coil Voltage, and Cap the rest. Everything is enclosed and they are highly moisture resistant. Available on Amazon, or a HVACR Supplier.

 

[spawn79]

I will say, depending on how you plan to do things when a power loss occurs….you may want to add a lag/cushion for items such as a skimmer. I initially had my apex turn the skimmer back on immediately after power was restored to the apex brain, but found this would overflow the skimmer due to changing water level in sump and other gear ramping up still after power came back online. I now have a 10 minute lag in place so the skimmer doesn’t turn back on until things have stabilized in the sump. I guess in short…do a lot of testing and mimic quite a few power failures.

Yup. I've got a delay on mine based on the main pump power on/off already. That's another thing on my list is replacing that stupid thing. I've got a Simplicity. When it works well it really works but it's so frigging temperamental I can blink wrong and it will stop skimming or overflow. Any skimmer would likely remain offline during an outage though. Not essential in my book as long as pumps are flowing water.

 

[spawn79]

I do a few things wrt skimmer protection:
1. Delay for 5min
2. AutoAqua skimmer sensor (below) to protect against overflow (very important if you run recirculating CO2 scrubber)
3. Turn off due to high pH (hit 8.53 several times due to new CO2 scrubber media replacement)

Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output RtnPump_3 = OFF Then OFF
If FeedA 005 Then OFF
Defer 005:00 Then ON
If pH > 8.55 Then OFF

https://a.co/d/7XxUiPg

I've thought about some kind of sensor in the skimmer cup myself but my thought is it would get gunked up pretty quick and stop working anyway. When I get around to a skimmate collector I'll probably put a sensor in that however. Would make me paranoid having a water export channel and not have a drain or some kind of safety in place in case the skimmer decides to go nuts and flood everything.

 

[spawn79]

I think this works a little differently...You would plug the EB832 into the UPS and the 12v into the wall....when the APEX senses the power loss at the wall you can programmatically shut things off on the UPS'ed EB832

Right. If I wanted to back the whole system up and have all the failovers work in programming I could certainly do that. With the way this will be set up however it will bypass that entirely and keep the whole system on DC power which will extend the life of the supply without all the inverter and converter losses. I can also still have safety in place through leak sensors and whatnot and kill the power in case something springs a leak at the same time since the brain will still be alive as well.

 

[spawn79]

RIB “Relay In a Box.” Just pay attention to which wires to hook up for the Coil Voltage, and Cap the rest. Everything is enclosed and they are highly moisture resistant. Available on Amazon, or a HVACR Supplier.

Oh I like that! I completely forgot about that relay solution. Some are just like you'd have in a car. That would also give me another fuse point dedicated to those circuits. If I found the right one I could have a dedicated 12v and 24v relay and fuse if I wanted to have them switched independently for some reason.

 

[areefer01]

A couple of reasons not to do this. The biggest reason is runtime. Unless you spend a small fortune on a UPS the runtime is pretty short. The batteries are relatively small and the inverters are quite inefficient so there are a lot of current losses.
This will be a lifepo battery setup at least 100AH. I'm not looking for an hour or two of backup. I want at least 24 hours if not 48 hours of backup power. (I'm in tornado and winter storm alley) Keeping the whole backup system on DC power will eliminate most of the losses.
UPS systems also use lead acid batteries which need regular replacement to keep the runtime. lifepo batteries last a LONG time. Kind of expensive up front but no replacements down the road. I could buy an all in one type setup like a bluetti but once again there is a premium $$ to that. Plus I like DIY so this is fun for me.

Yes, and no. Take a look at the EcoFlow River 2. Also not sure of your location but could also throw a solar panel on your shed, or in emergency against a fence, or on the back of a pick up truck bed, and recharge it. Charge one (spare) and the other powering aquarium critical loads. Do a search - few people have done it with good success rates and long run time on a few important things.

Then there is the bi-directional EV charger. Buy a F150 Lightning or Mustang, bi-directional charging, smart control unit, and Bob's your Uncle with more storage and cheaper than a couple of power wall 3

Edit: of course there is also the side of this hobby that likes to tinker in electronics - if so then @theatrus and a few others are the right lads.

 

[bakbay]

I've thought about some kind of sensor in the skimmer cup myself but my thought is it would get gunked up pretty quick and stop working anyway. When I get around to a skimmate collector I'll probably put a sensor in that however. Would make me paranoid having a water export channel and not have a drain or some kind of safety in place in case the skimmer decides to go nuts and flood everything.

It won’t — before it gets there, the skimmer would be turned off anyway. I just wipe it with a paper towel when emptying the skimmer cup - super easy. It’s a must-have for me, got 3 of them running on 3 tanks.

 

[spawn79]

If only I had a house of my own I would definitely get into the solar game. I do have a deck on my apartment and I could throw a couple of panels out there but then there's the whole trying to run wires without damaging property thing. gggrrr

I had thought about doing a fully portable unit like an ecoflow, etc but when you start getting into the 100AH and up range those tend to get really frigging expensive unfortunately. I do have a much smaller portable battery I can use in a pinch and it can handle the whole system including the lights for 6ish hours. I figure if S really hits the fan like a huge ice storm and no power for a week I can make sure I have at least one of my batteries easily removable/accessible to take to a location that does have power (like work) for a recharge. I can use the smaller portable one as a band-aid.

 

[areefer01]

If only I had a house of my own I would definitely get into the solar game. I do have a deck on my apartment and I could throw a couple of panels out there but then there's the whole trying to run wires without damaging property thing. gggrrr

I had thought about doing a fully portable unit like an ecoflow, etc but when you start getting into the 100AH and up range those tend to get really frigging expensive unfortunately. I do have a much smaller portable battery I can use in a pinch and it can handle the whole system including the lights for 6ish hours. I figure if S really hits the fan like a huge ice storm and no power for a week I can make sure I have at least one of my batteries easily removable/accessible to take to a location that does have power (like work) for a recharge. I can use the smaller portable one as a band-aid.

Note - I am not pushing a product, or brand, or solution. However I did want to point out that they do not have to be that expensive. You can find the EcoFlow River 2 portable 256Wh refurbished for 110 USD. Something I am looking at myself now.

We have solar but no storage. That is changing though due to net metering in California thus researching EV cars vs storage vs tax credits. Math is fun...

You can do a search here or outside such as google on telegraham - he has some good DIY info on this which is what I've been using.

Again - not pushing anything as I know there are a lot of options out there. This one seems reasonable though more so if you use the DC out.

 

[spawn79]

Oh I know you weren't/aren't. ecoflow makes a really good product to be sure. But all of them are expensive when you get to the storage I'm looking at. 100AH of storage in a premade unit will run $900ish minimum. I can pick up a 200AH (2200-2400wh) 12v lifepo for $400ish. Tack on another $100-$200 for some basic cabling/relays and a charger and you can see where I'm coming from. For some people that premium is worth it just to not have to deal with all the DIY and the pretty package but I like the challenge and I'm trying to keep my wallet from imploding due to outflow.