Please help my flame angel is messed up

[Brew12]

Well boys.... sad to say Diablo the flame angel passed away.... all my fish seem to being doing perfect tho. Thanks for all the help, next time I will be much better prepared,I know its early but does anyone a good replacement for him, like a flashy colourful very active fish. I am not getting him anytime soon just wanna do lots of research so this does not happen again. If anything this was a wake up call that i need to be ready at all times with medicine and constant water changes as one fish can put my whole tank in peril. So although he still died thank you all so much for your input it will for sure come in handy again.

I'm sorry you lost him.

I am concerned that your system may not be safe to add a fish if the loss of this fish was due to velvet. Wrasses and clowns tend to be fight parasites well because of their thick slime coat. I would worry that other fish you may add might not hold up if velvet is actually in your system. Just something to keep in mind as you grow in the hobby. Just because your current fish aren't showing symptoms does not mean that velvet still isn't in your tank. The only way to clear a system of velvet once infected is to leave it completely without fish for 6 weeks.

Again, I'm not saying it was velvet, but if you think it was it is something to keep in mind.

Good luck moving forward!

 

[Humblefish]

@Ramiro Casal Drop the dead body in freshwater (tap is fine) to check for flukes. If this fish had flukes, you should see white sesame seed looking things drop off him between 2-5 minutes. Nothing to lose at this point by checking for that.

Also, just for continuity purposes there is more info/photos about what happened here in this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...-new-to-ich-and-my-flame-angel-has-it.335050/

 

[Brew12]

@Ramiro Casal Drop the dead body in freshwater (tap is fine) to check for flukes. If this fish had flukes, you should see white sesame seed looking things drop off him between 2-5 minutes. Nothing to lose at this point by checking for that.

Also, just for continuity purposes there is more info/photos about what happened here in this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...-new-to-ich-and-my-flame-angel-has-it.335050/

Thanks, I missed that thread.

Strongly recommend taking the rest of the fish out, put them in a new QT system and treating them with copper to leave the original system fish free for 6 weeks.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm sorry you lost him.

I am concerned that your system may not be safe to add a fish if the loss of this fish was due to velvet. Wrasses and clowns tend to be fight parasites well because of their thick slime coat. I would worry that other fish you may add might not hold up if velvet is actually in your system. Just something to keep in mind as you grow in the hobby. Just because your current fish aren't showing symptoms does not mean that velvet still isn't in your tank. The only way to clear a system of velvet once infected is to leave it completely without fish for 6 weeks.

Again, I'm not saying it was velvet, but if you think it was it is something to keep in mind.

Good luck moving forward!

Thanks, I missed that thread.

Strongly recommend taking the rest of the fish out, put them in a new QT system and treating them with copper to leave the original system fish free for 6 weeks.

This is exactly what I was going to say as well. Melanarus are especially hardy with regards to velvet as I’ve had two during prolonged velvet exposure over the years, seemingly without symptom. In one case, it was the Typhoid Mary that kept bringing it back. I didn’t realize it as I had been pretty new to the hobby at that point.

Sorry for your loss!

 

[LuckyPhil]

rather than recommending another species of fish i would recommend you to set up a QT or get the equipment first.
It doesn't have to be expensive, i use containers from the hardware store and PVC pipes, its easy to store away and light.
If you love flame angels there is no reason why you cant try again, just QT next time and if you proactively treat then you may save the fish in time.
Velvet sucks if you bought it from a shop probably avoid them (and let them know you experienced velvet), if online then it is a hit and miss.

Please look at treating your remaining fish in your tank before it is again too late.

 

[Ramiro Casal]

I'm sorry you lost him.

I am concerned that your system may not be safe to add a fish if the loss of this fish was due to velvet. Wrasses and clowns tend to be fight parasites well because of their thick slime coat. I would worry that other fish you may add might not hold up if velvet is actually in your system. Just something to keep in mind as you grow in the hobby. Just because your current fish aren't showing symptoms does not mean that velvet still isn't in your tank. The only way to clear a system of velvet once infected is to leave it completely without fish for 6 weeks.

Again, I'm not saying it was velvet, but if you think it was it is something to keep in mind.

Good luck moving forward!

Since I dont have a QT what do you suggest I do, I am in college and there is no space in my dorm my display took the last of it. I am going to start feeding them onion infused pellets and what else can I do to prevent a second outbreak.

 

[Maritimer]

If you're dealing with velvet, onion-infused pellets are unlikely to help - though if the fish like the flavor, at least they're eating something and keeping their strength up.

Your existing fish _may_ be able to develop a temporary immunity (six months or so), which they _may_ be able to maintain, as long as they're exposed to the parasite at a low level. Any new fish, however, are likely to be wiped out in short order.

Is there any possibility of setting up a quarantine tank when you go on summer break or some such - assuming that any of your fish survive that long?

~Bruce

 

[Ramiro Casal]

If you're dealing with velvet, onion-infused pellets are unlikely to help - though if the fish like the flavor, at least they're eating something and keeping their strength up.

Your existing fish _may_ be able to develop a temporary immunity (six months or so), which they _may_ be able to maintain, as long as they're exposed to the parasite at a low level. Any new fish, however, are likely to be wiped out in short order.

Is there any possibility of setting up a quarantine tank when you go on summer break or some such - assuming that any of your fish survive that long?

~Bruce

what if I just remove my red banded coral shrimp and treat the whole tank with copper for 2 weeks then when back to normal bring him back

 

[Gablami]

This is exactly what I was going to say as well. Melanarus are especially hardy with regards to velvet as I’ve had two during prolonged velvet exposure over the years, seemingly without symptom. In one case, it was the Typhoid Mary that kept bringing it back. I didn’t realize it as I had been pretty new to the hobby at that point.

Sorry for your loss!

So you're saying that velvet can continue its life cycle silently in certain fish? If I have a fish in QT without symptoms and no prophylactic treatment for 4 weeks, I can drop him into my DT and infect all susceptible fish with velvet?

I knew that could happen with ich. I just thought velvet was more of a uniform death sentence.

 

[Maritimer]

If a fish was kept (as is common at some LFS) in sub-therapeutic levels of copper, even velvet can take up to a month to show up. I treat every fish with Coppersafe these days. I've also heard of fish simply developing that temporary immunity, and showing no symptoms.

what if I just remove my red banded coral shrimp and treat the whole tank with copper for 2 weeks then when back to normal bring him back

You'd want to treat for 30 days, but be aware that your liverock will be absorbing copper (making it more difficult to reach and maintain therapeutic levels), and can then leach it back into the water at a later time. Your shrimp could be at risk in that scenario. If you treat for only two weeks, you'll want to move the fish to a separate, clean tank after the two weeks - and move only the fish; no equipment, filter-sponges or decor. Copper and Chloroquine Phosphate only work well on the free-swimming stages of both ich and velvet, and far less well on the encysted tomonts, which can be lying dormant (and producing hundreds of parasites) almost anywhere in your system.

~Bruce

 

[4FordFamily]

So you're saying that velvet can continue its life cycle silently in certain fish? If I have a fish in QT without symptoms and no prophylactic treatment for 4 weeks, I can drop him into my DT and infect all susceptible fish with velvet?

I knew that could happen with ich. I just thought velvet was more of a uniform death sentence.

As Maritimer said, yes that is correct!

Some fish with very thick slime coats, and those that sleep below the sand or in mucous cocoons (such as many wrasse) may not show signs for months.