Please help, because I’m near the end!

[LC8Sumi]

Personally, I would be seeking at this stage to remove supplements, not find another to add. I am fairly certain that a lack of bacterial biodiversity is not what is causing these issues.

What would you recommend to get rid of cyano?

 

[Colin_S]

chemi-clean, but required skimmer to be offline

 

[LC8Sumi]

chemi-clean, but required skimmer to be offline

I’ve tried that before, but cyano comes back after a couple weeks. I guess my tank is lacking another bacteria that could overtake the place of cyano

 

[Cory]

So I had an okayish tank, but lots of algae issues. My nitrates were about 1-2ppm and phosphates around 0.03. I wanted to get rid of the algae

I’ve did the following in the past 2 months:
- Changed lighting from Kessil hybrid to 8bulb t5 only
- Took my refugium offline
- upgraded my skimmer
- started to use vibrant
- dosed flucanozole
- ran gfo agressively
- replaced CaRx with 2-p

Now the algae did go away perfectly, but the issue is that now my sps are dieing. There is now a dino and cyano outbreak & STN of the sps tissue.

So all was going well, until I’ve decided to use GFO in order to lower my PO4 because of the algae dieoff. This stabilised the PO4 at 0.03-0.06ppm. NO3 at around 5-6ppm.

Then the cyano started, and then a few days later dinos appeared. So I’ve took the GFO offline - because fashion nowdays says to do this. Another couple days later SPS are shreading tissue.

So I’ve measured the levels and NO3 and PO4 are now at 35ppm & 0.12ppm.

I don’t know where to go from here, as everyone would say that dino & cyano are more of a result of low values and/or imbalance, but that does not seem to be the case here.

After 5 years of reefing, 3 years of battling this algae issue, I’m now feeling like I should probably just let it go and quit. I’ve learnt that this hobby is perhaps not for me, I’m probably too dumb for it, because what works for others 100% doesn’t work for me. I’ve always thought I’m the smart and educated guy, because it seems like a lot of people with lot less knowledge don’t have these problems, but I’m now really starting to think, more like fear, that maybe I’m the one who is not smart enough.

Stop trying to fight algae with chemicals. An ecosystem beats it with fish that eat it and snails, urchins, crabs, sea hares, etc.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Stop trying to fight algae with chemicals. An ecosystem beats it with fish that eat it and snails, urchins, crabs, sea hares, etc.

I'm trying to fight it with biology, microbiology to be exact.

 

[Stigigemla]

I see a thread of typical American reefing.
You see a problem - add some chemical. It doesnt help add another chemical. It creates a new problem add a third chemical. And so on.
Instead you should stop adding chemicals shift a lot of water to get them out of Your system and then welcome the green algae when they come. Green algae is a natural thing. They will owergrow any reef in the nature if the grazers are gone.
There are a lot of grazers that can control green algae and green algae is the simpliest way of not getting cyano and dinos. When You have one or two Urchins and a surgeon fish they will keep Your green algae unvisible. But they are there covering the surfaces so Dino and Cyano cant establish. You can see the grazers feed on the unvisible layer on the stones. And they dont starve.

 

[LC8Sumi]

I see a thread of typical American reefing.
You see a problem - add some chemical. It doesnt help add another chemical. It creates a new problem add a third chemical. And so on.
Instead you should stop adding chemicals shift a lot of water to get them out of Your system and then welcome the green algae when they come. Green algae is a natural thing. They will owergrow any reef in the nature if the grazers are gone.
There are a lot of grazers that can control green algae and green algae is the simpliest way of not getting cyano and dinos. When You have one or two Urchins and a surgeon fish they will keep Your green algae unvisible. But they are there covering the surfaces so Dino and Cyano cant establish. You can see the grazers feed on the unvisible layer on the stones. And they dont starve.

I might be doing typical Americal reefing, but what you are suggesting is '90s reefing. Although there are still a lot to learn about the microbiology going on in tanks, I think the hobby has advanced a lot since then.

 

[Mattman1977]

Man this sounds to familiar. I’ve only been in the hobby around 5 years now. Before I moved last summer I have 4 salty tanks running, my original, the one that got the reefing bug started, was a 55 gal run of the mill tank. Ended up with bubble algae due to not dipping and after awhile decided to dose vibrant. Well it definitely killed the gba but the cyno started soon after and you guessed it I dosed chemiclean and boom dino. Dino got so bad lost all of inverts and some of my coral. I fought that system for months and months before I moved and took it down.

So now after the move I have only a 24 gal nano due to work and home remodel coming up. I refuse to use anything that’s not as natural as we can get in this tank. Even the cycle was just a shrimp. I refuse to use any bottle “snake oil” quick fix stuff ever again. Learned the best reefing slogan ever “NOTHING GOOD EVER HAPPENS FAST IN A REEF TANK”

I started winning the battle with 72 hour lights out weekly followed with water changes and low lights. can’t tell you long term if that plan worked because of moving but tank was looking good again.

good luck and happy reefing
Matt

 

[GabeM]

I might be doing typical Americal reefing, but what you are suggesting is '90s reefing. Although there are still a lot to learn about the microbiology going on in tanks, I think the hobby has advanced a lot since then.

I had a very similar issue as you and heavy feeding and heavy export of nutrients did it for me. I also dosed the vibrant bacteria once the GHA started recessing to speed things along.

Most important in keeping the GHA gone long term has been the grazers and CUC IMO. They clean up after my feeding and generally attack any mew GHA.

 

[Stigigemla]

In the 90:s in Europe it was most the Berlin system. Skimming, mercury lamps and kalkwasser.
Controlling green algae with nitrate, phosphate and grazers is just a few years old to me.

 

[Cory]

I'm trying to fight it with biology, microbiology to be exact.

Microbiology doesn't handle live algae. It handles dead algae.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Microbiology doesn't handle live algae. It handles dead algae.

Actually the bacteria in vibrant does handle (eat) live algae.

 

[Cory]

Actually the bacteria in vibrant does handle (eat) live algae.

Nope it doesnt. It just looks that way.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Nope it doesnt. It just looks that way.

So are the makers of it lying?

 

[8ptspike]

So I had an okayish tank, but lots of algae issues. My nitrates were about 1-2ppm and phosphates around 0.03. I wanted to get rid of the algae

I’ve did the following in the past 2 months:
- Changed lighting from Kessil hybrid to 8bulb t5 only
- Took my refugium offline
- upgraded my skimmer
- started to use vibrant
- dosed flucanozole
- ran gfo agressively
- replaced CaRx with 2-p

Now the algae did go away perfectly, but the issue is that now my sps are dieing. There is now a dino and cyano outbreak & STN of the sps tissue.

So all was going well, until I’ve decided to use GFO in order to lower my PO4 because of the algae dieoff. This stabilised the PO4 at 0.03-0.06ppm. NO3 at around 5-6ppm.

Then the cyano started, and then a few days later dinos appeared. So I’ve took the GFO offline - because fashion nowdays says to do this. Another couple days later SPS are shreading tissue.

So I’ve measured the levels and NO3 and PO4 are now at 35ppm & 0.12ppm.

I don’t know where to go from here, as everyone would say that dino & cyano are more of a result of low values and/or imbalance, but that does not seem to be the case here.

After 5 years of reefing, 3 years of battling this algae issue, I’m now feeling like I should probably just let it go and quit. I’ve learnt that this hobby is perhaps not for me, I’m probably too dumb for it, because what works for others 100% doesn’t work for me. I’ve always thought I’m the smart and educated guy, because it seems like a lot of people with lot less knowledge don’t have these problems, but I’m now really starting to think, more like fear, that maybe I’m the one who is not smart enough.

I was EXACTLY where you were at!!!! Exactly.
Here is what I did, as my last gasp.
I want to preface this by saying I did ha e a refugium with caulerpa.
First, I upgraded to more powerful power heads to increase flow. I’m at 25x now.
I cut back my caulerpa by 25% to stimulate growth on a 24 hour light cycle..
I then added a small phosphate reactor with a mix of purigen and phosguard (now using GFO).
I then cut the lights to my aquarium to 3 days. I also covered it with several blankets so it was completely dark.It won’t destroy your corals. Most of the cyano died off. The phosphate reactor and caulerpa took up most of the nutrients. I then did a 70% water change.
A week later some cyano started coming back as well as there was still some in the refugium.
But in the display there was 95% less.
I then treated with Chemi-Clean. And after 3 days did another 70% water change. I have about a 110 gallons in my system.
Cyano is 100% eradicated. At least visually. I’m sure it always exists.
It really didn’t cost all that much. I probably have $250 into it. But really most of that was on power-heads. I should have upgraded those years ago. And a Nano phosphate reactor isn’t a bad thing either. My aquarium looks better than ever.

Oh yeah one other little thing I did. And this takes a little time.
During those big water changes the first 5 gallons I would pull thru the skimmer. It is amazing what you can pull out of your system doing that alone. Just make it foam like crazy and constantly drain. After a while the foam stops overflowing and you have to adjust it again.

I’ve since just did 5 gallon skimmer water changes every month or so.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Okay so here is the deal:

Before:
- 10% (of DT) fuge packed with chaeto
- Poor SPS color & growth
- Nusiance algae thriving in DT
- NO3: 0, PO4: 0.03

After:
- No fuge
- Poor SPS color & growth
- 0 nusiance algae, not even on the glass in a week - it is crystal clear
- bit of cyano
- bit of dino
- NO3: 40, PO4: 0.54

I just don't understand this whole reefing anymore. How is that that there is now 0 algae with such high level of nutrients?

Algae wise the tank has never been so pristine, it's amazing.
SPS wise it's the usual, not great, not terrible.

 

[LC8Sumi]

By the way. I also don't understand where the PO4 and NO3 is comming from? Especially the PO4. Since I've took the GFO offline about 2 weeks ago it has skyrocketed (from 0.03) - and there wasn't any algae 2 weeks ago either, so it's not algae die off that is feeding it.

I feed frozen mysis RINSED in RODI, 1 cube every two days. Also 1teaspoon of reef roids every week.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

By the way. I also don't understand where the PO4 and NO3 is comming from? Especially the PO4. Since I've took the GFO offline about 2 weeks ago it has skyrocketed (from 0.03) - and there wasn't any algae 2 weeks ago either, so it's not algae die off that is feeding it.

I feed frozen mysis RINSED in RODI, 1 cube every two days. Also 1teaspoon of reef roids every week.

Whenever I dose Reefroids, phosphate spikes something awful. If you are using a teaspoon, then that would be where the phosphate is coming from. Unless you have a ton (of PO4) sequestered in your rock and the GFO was pulling it out of the water column as fast as it could leach. One way to find out is to put your GFO back online, pull the PO4 down. Then take the GFO offline again and do not dose Reefroids, and test for PO4 a few days later. If it bounces up, then it is leaching from your rock.

I like to keep about 0.10 PO4 available for my corals.

Dennis

 

[Bluespottedjawfish1]

I have used Chemiclean for years and it does the trick for cyano as well as generally helps with organic crud. No cloudy water but yes massive overflows at initial skimming( I believe you need to skim out excess Chemiclean after the 10-20% water change.
Also add macro algae to your fudge.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Whenever I dose Reefroids, phosphate spikes something awful. If you are using a teaspoon, then that would be where the phosphate is coming from. Unless you have a ton (of PO4) sequestered in your rock and the GFO was pulling it out of the water column as fast as it could leach. One way to find out is to put your GFO back online, pull the PO4 down. Then take the GFO offline again and do not dose Reefroids, and test for PO4 a few days later. If it bounces up, then it is leaching from your rock.

I like to keep about 0.10 PO4 available for my corals.

Dennis

I’m afraid to drive the PO4 down again, as I had dinos when I did it. Now the dino is going away. It would be interesting that reefroid is putting that much po4 in the water - if that’s the case I don’t even know if I should use it.