OT debt/money management

Engloid

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In theory this is correct and looks good on paper. I'm currently doing this and it hasn't worked out like I thought. You need to factor in taxes, repair/maintenance, insurance, vacancy, and renter not paying rent. I ended up breaking even last year and should actually make a small profit this year, but the small profit is not worth the stress, for me. That's why I'm considering selling.
It works....you just have to factor those things in to begin with, and if you can't get the profits, don't get the house. You have to look at a house by house basis. If you don't mind me asking...what's the value of the house you have, payment, and rent?
 

Engloid

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It's not the "gov't" paying for your college, it's everyone. everyone who goes to college pays a tax when they get a job, that tax pays for the next generation's education.
....and those that don't go to college get to pay for those that do. How fair is that?
it's not like a student loan that accrues interest. it keeps the rates down... Well, , it's worked for generations in germany. they have one of the best education systems, and economies in the world.
So can you tell me just ONE product or service that the govt became the primary purchaser of (in the US), and the cost didn't go up?
do you realize how many professional, well paying jobs here go unfilled, or we have to bring in people from other countries for because the people here aren't educated enough to do them?
That's probably a very small percentage, maybe about 2% of the jobs we have here. It's not like we're filling middle class jobs with foreigners, at a high rate.
you increase the value of an education by increasing what you get from it and put back into the economy.
If you increase the supply of something, the cost tends to go down. It's economics. A college degree is a product, and by creating more, you lower the value of it.
We're never going to be able to compete on the global scale if we don't do something with our education system. I'm not deeply in debt because of it, but i didn't get to finish because i couldnt afford it.
The fact is that in many areas we DO compete on a global level. The areas we don't are typically unskilled labor and production. We will always find it hard to compete with countries on many products, unless we pay next to nothing like they do OR start understanding that if we can't beat them on price, we have to beat them out on quality....but we can't make a cheap product and sell it for twice what they do.
 
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CoryC

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1. It's a tax for college graduates only. If you get a technical degree, you pay for toward technical education. But at any rate, why is it fair that 75% of my tax dollars go to our completely bloated military industrial complex? I want NASA back, not bases all over the world.

2. Irrelevant. Costs will always go up. for anything.

3. wrong, 250k visas were issued to workers for jobs like this in 2010. YOu're missing the point, with a better education system, there would be more employment for middle class workers, and they would be better insulated when there are broad shifts in the job market, like happened in 07-08.

4. I was unaware that basic economic rules applied to knowledge. So that means, if a lot of people are in school, i should probably not go because i have less of a chance of getting a job right? wrong. Almost always a person with a degree will make more over their lifetime than someone without. regardless of the cost or "value" of that degree.

5. we are miserably failing to compete in science and tech jobs, which will see the largest growth in the coming decade. Wherever we are competing at now, we will likely lose ground. America stays ahead of the curve in innovation because for a long time we have had some of the best educational systems in the world. we're slacking, and it's showing. We could educate every american with what we spend policing the world and needlessly amassing a giant military. it's unnecessary.
 

Esage

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It works....you just have to factor those things in to begin with, and if you can't get the profits, don't get the house. You have to look at a house by house basis. If you don't mind me asking...what's the value of the house you have, payment, and rent?

It can work, but there is a lot of risk involved. You're not making money when a tenants living in your property for free.
 
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Engloid

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Spencer, do you own rental properties?
yes. It does work if you do it right. Many people make "fatal" mistakes and never realize what they are. It drives them out of the business and then they tell everybody about how bad they got burned and how bad it was. ...without ever realizing their mistakes. For example...if you want to rent out a house that has a payment of $1000, it will not be very profitable, if at all.

1. It's a tax for college graduates only. If you get a technical degree, you pay for toward technical education.
That's interesting. How long to you pay?
2. Irrelevant. Costs will always go up. for anything.
What did the cost of the digital tv converters do when the govt vouchers expired? They dropped to less than half what they were when the govt was buying them. IN other words, they really never would have had a pricetag of $50, but when the govt put out $50 for them, manufacturers/stores made sure that the cheapest you could get one was $50.

3. wrong, 250k visas were issued to workers for jobs like this in 2010. YOu're missing the point, with a better education system, there would be more employment for middle class workers, and they would be better insulated when there are broad shifts in the job market, like happened in 07-08.
Nope...we would have more college educated people working at jobs like waiting tables. Where are these 250,000 jobs being created? How many of those 250k visas were for jobs that didn't require a college degree?

4. I was unaware that basic economic rules applied to knowledge. So that means, if a lot of people are in school, i should probably not go because i have less of a chance of getting a job right? wrong. Almost always a person with a degree will make more over their lifetime than someone without. regardless of the cost or "value" of that degree.
Yes, economic rules apply to knowledge. Go get a degree in marine biology and just see how well it pays here in Tennessee. Then go to the coast and see what it pays. It's a factor of DEMAND. If you're the only person in the world that knew how to make a nuclear bomb, how much do you think you could get paid? If the thing you have the mot knowledge of is how to make a sandwich at Subway, how much do you think it will pay? Fact is that if you are in a field with bigger demand, you will usually be in a field with bigger pay. I have a college degree and have graduated trade school, as well as have a pretty nice professional certification. The pay scales for them are in that order, lowest to highest. The time spent to get each is highest to lowest. In other words, the degree took longest to get, but has paid off the least. The professional certification took the least time to get, but pays the most. Why? Demand.
 

EvilMel

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I MFin' LOVE Dave Ramsey. He does a lot of good for a lot of people in this world.

Spencer, if you had your home completely paid off would you borrow against it and invest that money to make a profit?
 

Engloid

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I MFin' LOVE Dave Ramsey. He does a lot of good for a lot of people in this world.

Spencer, if you had your home completely paid off would you borrow against it and invest that money to make a profit?
Absolutely!!! Let me explain why: Lets start with a couple assumptions and rounded numbers for example's sake. Standard 4% appreciation on residential property, $100k home value, and 5% mortgage rate. I will also, for example, us you and I. We both have $100k houses. Yours is paid for. We both gain 4% VALUE (not money until you sell) per year. You choose to stay that way and I choose to mortgage and invest elsewhere. At the end of 20 years, (inc yearly compounding) you will have a home valued at $219k VALUE. You sell, and pocket $219k. This is your ONLY gains. On the other hand, my house also gained value, to the point of $219k. However, I borrowed for mine, putting $20k down. This avoids paying PMI, btw. I borrowed $80k. I invested the $80k in mutual funds, at a rate of 12%. At the end of 20yrs, my house is finally paid off. Sounds bad, right? Not really...because the 80K I invested has grown to a total of $771k. A deeper look may draw the question...how much have I paid in payments during those years? Surely it wasn't the difference we have at the end of roughly $550k :) In short, I would gain the same appreciation, whether I own the house 100% or 10%. The bank is financing MY appreciation and you financed yours. I also gained the advantage of starting investing first, with $80k. You would be starting this cycle only after paying off your house, and even then would be investing the amount of your payment that you no longer have to make. Dave teaches that it's important to start saving early, and tells about the brothers...one started at 18yo and invested for 5 years (if I remember right) the other started at 40yo and invested until he was 60yo. THe one that started earlier saved less, but had much more at age 60, even though he went about 40yrs without saving at all. This same logic applies to your house. If you wait to invest until you pay off your house, you are losing time that money can be compounding in investments.
 

Engloid

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I do like Dave Ramsey. He has helped a lot of people...but it's like alcoholics anonymous...it's for those that are totally lost. AA teaches to not drink one drink, and that's good if a person really has a big problem. However, most people can have some self control and solve their problems without completely giving up something. His methods work if you have to have somebody give you a plan and direct every thing. If you are totally "addicted" to screwing up financially, and have no control....but make no mistake...there are better ways to get out of debt, and to invest. ...if you have the determination and self control to do it.
 

NanoPoseidon

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I do like Dave Ramsey. He has helped a lot of people...but it's like alcoholics anonymous...it's for those that are totally lost. AA teaches to not drink one drink, and that's good if a person really has a big problem. However, most people can have some self control and solve their problems without completely giving up something. His methods work if you have to have somebody give you a plan and direct every thing. If you are totally "addicted" to screwing up financially, and have no control....but make no mistake...there are better ways to get out of debt, and to invest. ...if you have the determination and self control to do it.
LOL... I like the analogy! The problem is, about 90% of the population are "Financial Alcoholics"! Ha
 

Engloid

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LOL... I like the analogy! The problem is, about 90% of the population are "Financial Alcoholics"! Ha
Exactly. That's why he's been able to help so many people. Think about he tells you to do the debt snowball...pay off small debts first. He doesn't approach from a speedy route of paying off high interest debt first. His logic is to pay off the small debts first, in order to get that quick rewarding feeling of paying off a debt. This is just like Alcoholics Anonymous telling you to not look at quitting forever, but to approach one day at a time.

I'm a big fan of Dave Ramsey. I just don't think his way is the best for everybody. If you like Dave Ramsey, you should read Robert Kyosaki's Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I had heard of it for years and when I read it, I discovered why it was a top seller. It's entertaininng, educational, motivational, and easy to read. It's not a boring text about stuff that makes you want to put the book down. I would highly reccomend it!!
 

Engloid

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I had a good run on RAD stock the last few days. Made about $3500 yesterday alone. In 3 months, gain was about $17k. If I could do that every time, I'd be retiring soon.
 
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