Nutrient Management by “Old School” Reefer

[Subsea]

@PaulB
Those pictures make you the Sponge King. Myself, I prefer sponge cake.

Did you collect those or did they grow out in time from your rock?

This is great. The most life in my tank by far is sponges and they cover all available real estate. A little to agressive but they are great for the water conditions and heath in general.

The blue stuff above this box fish is sponge.



The stuff under these anthius are sponge.


These Watchmans are sitting on sponge.



All sponge.

 

[Big Smelly fish]

Wow , you were really advanced for the times, I got out of the service in April of 72, a few month later set up a 29 gallon tank, under gravel filter and crushed coral. Everything I learned was from multiple books. Live rock wasn’t even heard of or written about at the time.
they things they collected and sold didn’t have a real chance to survive. So it was mostly fish, crabs, starfish .
it was the 80’s when live rock came into play. And the need for intense lighting.

thank for sharing.

 

[Subsea]

Here's a short video to go along with your post Pat:



One of the surprises reading de Goeij's paper on elemental cycling (download a .pdf here) is sponges remove DOC in 30 minutes that takes the bacterioplankton 20 days, or about 1000X faster (pg 50). Seems to me a lot of the success attributed to skimmers should in reality be attributed to sponges.

Here's more sponge stuff for those interested:

This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)

https://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

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besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.

(PDF) 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop

PDF | On Jun 23, 2015, Jasper M de Goeij and others published 2013 deGoeij Science Sponge loop | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

Coral-excavating sponges are the most important bioeroders on Caribbean reefs and increase in abundance throughout the region. This increase is commonly attributed to a concomitant increase in food availability due to eutrophication and pollution. We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.

The role of marine sponges in carbon and nitrogen cycles of coral reef and nearshore environments - ProQuest

Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.

search.proquest.com

Tim,
In listening to the video from the sponge doctor, I heard a conversation from 30 yrs ago. While attending a conference on municipal wastewater management put on by Shriver, a German company that was pioneering, “stressing activated sludge bacteria with low oxygen”, with an increase of consumption of inorganic phosphate to repair membrane wall of bacteria. In a municipal activated sludge plant, spent bacteria are drained from the process into drying beds. When most of the water is removed, the spent bacteria are removed and beneficially reused in agriculture as a soil additive with sequestered phosphate & nitrate from bacteria membrane. So, bacteria run the show, which is what @PaulB has said for eons.

 

[Paul B]

Years ago, when I was just starting my career as a wet lab technician, I had a fish-only marine aquarium.

Why didn't you just dry off?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Why didn't you just dry off?

I know you're kidding, but for those who don't know, 'wet lab' is slang for a laboratory that specializes in water analyses.

 

[Kennya]

<deleted> wrong post

 

[Subsea]

@Lasse

Twice, yesterday, I used your signature quote and the definition of “expert” by Niels Bohr, Danish philosopher,
“ An expert is someone who has made ever conceivable mistake in an area of specialty”.

Abraham Lincoln defined expert as someone who went 50 miles to give their opinion.

 

[Subsea]

NOTE: There are some really old gezzers on this thread.

PS: Today I lift @Timfish with this, “I might be a little crusty”.

 

[Timfish]

Just a little crusty Pat?!

 

[Subsea]

Just a little crusty Pat?!

Actually, I had adopted crusty as my alter ego, except I was recently convicted with a FB post that showed a dog looking up with big pleading eyes and caption read.
”Be the kind of person he thinks you are”. So, I am working on kindness.

Tim,
I so much enjoy implementing sponge loop and cryptic refugiums in all of my new set ups. Thank you for bringing that knowledge to me. Previously, I had not considered the void/plenum under gravel bed to be a cryptic refugium, but while I can’t test it, I know it must be.

 

[Subsea]

@PaulB
Bear Tales & Squirrel Tails are not the same.

https://www.reef2reef.com/posts/9315041/bookmark

 

[Subsea]

Since I brought up bugs as microbial overlords, Let’s talk crosstalk between bacteria in the coral holibiont.

 

[Subsea]

Frontiers | Microbes in the coral holobiont: partners through evolution, development, and ecological interactions

In the last two decades, genetic and genomic studies have revealed the astonishing diversity and ubiquity of microorganisms. Emergence and expansion of the h...

www.frontiersin.org

How is Homeostasis Maintained between Corals and their Microbial Symbionts?​

The coral holobiont, from pre-larval to adult stages, is a complex system of diverse organisms that coexist and interact. This complex system is capable of fixing nutrients and building biomass and carbonate structures in nutrient poor waters. When one or more components of the holobiont fail to function as required for system stability, bleaching (Symbiodinium loss) and/or tissue-death may result and lead to progressive death of the entire coral colony. The control and regulation of activities in the holobiont to maintain emergent function is termed homeostasis. In the coral holobiont, like any other animal holobiont, stressors that threaten homeostasis may be biological, chemical, or physical, and an initial stressor may lead to cascading interactions that trigger additional responses. To assess how homeostasis is maintained among components of the coral holobiont this section will focus on how physical and chemical gradients shape the microbiota in different habitats within the coral animal, and consider how perturbation of these gradients influence holobiont function. In particular, we will examine the following habitats: (1) the coral mucus and epidermal surface, (2) intracellular and interstitial spaces, (3) the gastrovascular cavity, and (4) the skeleton (Figure 2).

FIGURE 2

Figure 2. Anatomy of coral polyp. Basal body wall not shown. Inset (A), shows close up of mucus layer, epidermis and upper gastrodermis. Inset (B), shows close up of coral gastrovascular cavity.

Coral Mucus and Epidermal Surface​

The tissue of the coral organism contains numerous secretory cells that are responsible for production of a continuous mucus layer that is typically a few hundred micrometers thick (Brown and Bythell, 2005; Jatkar et al., 2010; Garren and Azam, 2012). The formation and roles of coral mucus have been reviewed in detail (Brown and Bythell, 2005). Coral mucus serves multiple functions to maintain holobiont homeostasis that may vary in relative importance depending on the coral species. As a permeable barrier between the coral tissue and seawater that can be periodically shed by a mechanism functionally analogous to mucus clearing in other metazoans, the mucus layer is the first line of defense against biofouling, pathogen invasion, and shading by sedimentation (Brown and Bythell, 2005). In addition, the mucus layer may serve as a trap for nutrient-bearing particles (including bacteria) that are periodically ingested by the coral as a mode of suspension feeding (Coles and Strathman, 1973; Muscatine, 1973). Mucus layers are enriched in photosynthate and coral waste products and thus represent a resource-rich habitat that is readily colonized by marine bacteria (Brown and Bythell, 2005). Mucus layers accumulate dense assemblages of bacteria that share similarity with the bacterial composition of seawater (Bourne and Munn, 2005; Lema et al., 2012) and are also structured by interaction with members of the coral holobiont through both top-down process (i.e., removal/selection) (Ritchie, 2006; Franzenburg et al., 2013) and bottom-up processes (i.e., resource availability) (Nakajima et al., 2009) as discussed further in Section How can Ecological Approaches Deepen our Understanding of the Multiple Levels of Coral–Microbial Interactions? Coral mucus layers are complex habitats, defined by chemical, physical and biological gradients (Brown and Bythell, 2005), thus it is not surprising that spatial heterogeneity of mucus-associated bacterial community composition in adult corals can be observed over the scale of a single coral colony (Daniels et al., 2011). Indeed, over a diurnal cycle the mucus of some corals may cycle from being fully-oxygenated due to the photosynthetic metabolism of Symbiodinium to anaerobic at night when respiration rates exceed oxygenesis—this may be enhanced by physical compartmentalization of mucus-bearing structures on the coral colony (Carlton and Richardson, 1995; Kuhl et al., 1995; Brown and Bythell, 2005).
Although the mucus layer is densely colonized by microorganisms, microscopic examination of the coral epidermis beneath the mucus layer reveals a nearly sterile environment (Johnston and Rohwer, 2007). Surface coral cilia have been implicated in deterring the attachment of fouling organisms by generating surface currents on the order of 2 mm per second (Johnston and Rohwer, 2007; Garren et al., 2014). Although coral mucus and ciliary currents are physical deterrents to colonization of coral surfaces, it has been recently demonstrated that the coral pathogen V. coralliilyticus breaches this barrier through rapid bursts of chemotaxis (i.e., directional swimming relative to a gradient) and chemokinesis (i.e., acceleration in response to a chemical concentration) guided by gradients of infochemicals such as DMSP that are produced by the holobiont and may increase during periods of temperature stress (Garren et al., 2014). Exposure to V. coralliilyticus leads to rapid death of coral tissue (Ben-Haim et al., 2003a; Santos et al., 2011). Thus, the dynamic coral mucus layer is a critical, and traversable, barrier that is essential to maintaining a healthy balance of surface-colonizing microorganisms.

​

 

[Subsea]

while research papers can get difficult to navigate, after 50 years of Reefing, I know quite a bit about Homeostasis.

In 1971 at Texas Maritime Academy, I took Chemical Oceanoraphy as a technical elective. At that time, Dynamic Equilibrium, explained one part of Homeostasis in our reef tanks: gas exchange between athmospheric gases, mainly nitrogen, carbon dioxide and oxygen, and ocean waters provide carbon dosing and nitrogen enrichment.

Lets park here:
1. Natures way to carbon dose uses the solubility of carbon dioxide in water to provide carbonate alkalinity to algae that when combined with photosynthesis produces glucose, which is carbon for the reef. @Dana Riddle said it this way, “Photosynthesis combines the inorganic with the organic works.

2. Nitrogen enrichment uses cynobacteria to convert free nitrogen gas molecules in the water into ammonia that is assimilated into their biomas. For this reason, when you starve your system for nitrogen, you open the door for opportunistic nuisance species as you limited competition by limiting nitrogen to those that require inorganic nitrogen in bulk water.

 

[Subsea]

while research papers can get difficult to navigate, after 50 years of Reefing, I know quite a bit about Homeostasis.

In 1971 at Texas Maritime Academy, I took Chemical Oceanoraphy as a technical elective. At that time, Dynamic Equilibrium, explained one part of Homeostasis in our reef tanks: gas exchange between athmospheric gases, mainly nitrogen, carbon dioxide and oxygen, and ocean waters provide carbon dosing and nitrogen enrichment.

Lets park here:
1. Natures way to carbon dose uses the solubility of carbon dioxide in water to provide carbonate alkalinity to algae that when combined with photosynthesis produces glucose, which is carbon for the reef. @Dana Riddle said it this way, “Photosynthesis combines the inorganic with the organic works.

2. Nitrogen enrichment uses cynobacteria to convert free nitrogen gas molecules in the water into ammonia that is assimilated into their biomas. For this reason, when you starve your system for nitrogen, you open the door for opportunistic nuisance species as you limited competition by limiting nitrogen to those that require inorganic nitrogen in bulk water.

I will make the above post a new thread,
“Elegance in Reefkeepers, Who Keep It Simple”.

While you don’t need to know how complex the coral holibiont is to learn the rules and practice natural reefing. It cranks me up to realize how complex the natural reef is and for me, I seek knowledge to understand what I love.

Bacteria are still Microbial Overloards, but they must be coupled with algae, which includes coral zooantheli, and sponges to complete nutrient recycling in an ecosystem.

 

[Subsea]

This is great. The most life in my tank by far is sponges and they cover all available real estate. A little to agressive but they are great for the water conditions and heath in general.

The blue stuff above this box fish is sponge.



The stuff under these anthius are sponge.


These Watchmans are sitting on sponge.



All sponge.

@Paul B

where did sponges come from?

 

[Paul B]

where did sponges come from?

I think I got a small piece as a "gift" from an LFS a few years ago. Now it's covering my house. ;Nailbiting

 

[Subsea]

@paul,
I can handle a nutrient sink that looks as colorful as that. You should look at Steve Tyree website and see prices of cryptic sponge. Actually check out live aquaria for aquacultured blue sponge at $50 for small marsmellow size.

This is great. The most life in my tank by far is sponges and they cover all available real estate. A little to agressive but they are great for the water conditions and heath in general.

The blue stuff above this box fish is sponge.



The stuff under these anthius are sponge.


These Watchmans are sitting on sponge.



All sponge.

 

[Kennya]

I will make the above post a new thread,
“Elegance in Reefkeepers, Who Keep It Simple”.

While you don’t need to know how complex the coral holibiont is to learn the rules and practice natural reefing. It cranks me up to realize how complex the natural reef is and for me, I seek knowledge to understand what I love.

Bacteria are still Microbial Overloards, but they must be coupled with algae, which includes coral zooantheli, and sponges to complete nutrient recycling in an ecosystem.

Just wanted to say how fascinating I've found this current thread, difficult to understand absolutely everything thats been posted and a fair bit way over my head, espc. the research papers as I've no background in biology (except basic school stuff - but that was 45 years ago now). So thanks for sharing and looking forward to the new thread “Elegance in Reefkeepers, Who Keep It Simple”

 

[Subsea]

@Kennya
Thank you for your interest in this thread. It developed itself with all the contributors of knowledge and experience . There are a dozen people on this thread with 50 yrs experience maintaining reef aquariums. Several on this thread were consultants for public aquarium. I have a Class 5 certification for municipal waste water treatment which enables me to charge money to train operators to stir S.H.I.T.

kudos to your support of The Coral Project. @Timfish followed a coral cloning project which showed dna changes, possible degradation, after successive generations of clones.

Tim,
Any more information on raising flame Angel fry?