No parasites copper preventative

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, what is your experience in using Fenbendazole against marine flukes?

It works pretty well and it also treats nematodes. Trouble is, I’ve had two horrendous mortality events using it - flashlight fish and darters are killed 100% by it. Most other fish are fine. Trouble is, I’m not comfortable dosing it on different fish species on the hope that it won’t be toxic. Other people have reported sensitivity in tetras and catfish. Common reef fish like angels and damsels are fine.
Jay

 

[sc50964]

I think the protocol is the protocol - if you want to change it - go for it. IMHO - it's important - to realize that ALL of these medications - whether slightly or much worse - are more toxic than giving nothing. There does not seem to be any reason to give the medication after 3 days - since you're needing to wait for the eggs to hatch. If you think its a low risk medication - and you decide to give it every 3 days - go ahead - I think the issue is - you're just providing more risk to your fish - with no benefit - no matter how simple the medication seems to be on the fish. @Jay Hemdal

Idk what it is with you guys. I’m not changing your protocol. It’s yours to keep and recommend & promote however you want. My own experience & also the reconfirmation from Jay says that prazi is gone after 72 hours. In fact, he now says it’s within 36 hours. Regardless, i don’t see it’s less risk to wait for another 156 hours to change water, which according to Jay is also optional as it just removes some waste, and then redose than being pro-active to redose & change water after 72 hours. It is not an exact science since prazi is not always 100% effective, as Jay pointed out this morning. So regardless, there is risk involved & saying that my method is more risky is frankly an unsubstantiated opinion of yours. I hope I’m clear for the last time. I’m not trying to do anything with your protocol. I just thought since there is some ambiguity as there isn’t an exact recipe, there could be some friendly exchange of info. No need to gang up on me. It’s quite ridiculous to be honest.

 

[MnFish1]

Idk what it is with you guys. I’m not changing your protocol. It’s yours to keep and recommend & promote however you want. My own experience & also the reconfirmation from Jay says that prazi is gone after 72 hours. In fact, he now says it’s within 36 hours. Regardless, i don’t see it’s less risk to wait for another 156 hours to change water, which according to Jay is also optional as it just removes some waste, and then redose than being pro-active to redose & change water after 72 hours. It is not an exact science since prazi is not always 100% effective, as Jay pointed out this morning. So regardless, there is risk involved & saying that my method is more risky is frankly an unsubstantiated opinion of yours. I hope I’m clear for the last time. I’m not trying to do anything with your protocol. I just thought since there is some ambiguity as there isn’t an exact recipe, there could be some friendly exchange of info. No need to gang up on me. It’s quite ridiculous to be honest.

So - lets say it this way you can say "can I do X" or "Can I do Y" - the bottom line - in the end is the answer you're going to get is follow our protocol. Thats it. If you don't want to - great - if you want to make up your own protocol - great - if you want to fumble with Humblefish go ahead (and that was a joke - I have nothing against his protocols). But -Let it go. Just let it go

 

[BahCorals]

Hey everyone I haven't had to properly qt a fish for years. We had a fish pass a week ago and just bought a baby hippo tang. So hard to find a direct answer but do I still minimum copper treat with copper power for 2 weeks even if the fish looms fine? Or is everyone still doing a month anyway? Thanks

I may be crazy but I follow a very strict quarantine process on any fish I acquire. I start with 30 days of copper + rid ich combined. Then I continue with 2 weeks of nitrofurazone(Furan 2) or erythromycin as an antibacterial precaution. And finish with 2 weeks of PraziPro treatment for internal parasites. Followed by 2 weeks of observation prior to adding to my systems. During this entire process I do weekly water changes unless otherwise requiring more. During water changes the QT system and all equipment are sterilized using 70% isopropyl alcohol. This is my process, however I know many others who do nothing and have similar success with fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I may be crazy but I follow a very strict quarantine process on any fish I acquire. I start with 30 days of copper + rid ich combined. Then I continue with 2 weeks of nitrofurazone(Furan 2) or erythromycin as an antibacterial precaution. And finish with 2 weeks of PraziPro treatment for internal parasites. Followed by 2 weeks of observation prior to adding to my systems. During this entire process I do weekly water changes unless otherwise requiring more. During water changes the QT system and all equipment are sterilized using 70% isopropyl alcohol. This is my process, however I know many others who do nothing and have similar success with fish.

I don’t see any issues with that except I don’t use antibiotics unless is suspect a bacterial disease.
Jay

 

[sc50964]

So - lets say it this way you can say "can I do X" or "Can I do Y" - the bottom line - in the end is the answer you're going to get is follow our protocol. Thats it. If you don't want to - great - if you want to make up your own protocol - great - if you want to fumble with Humblefish go ahead (and that was a joke - I have nothing against his protocols). But -Let it go. Just let it go

Idk what you are talking about. I’ve never “not” let it go. You keep on coming back to me, so I had to state it over and over again that it’s your protocol and I have no desire to get involved in changing it. The whole thing started with someone asked an open question so I responded. Then all of a sudden both Vetteguy and you are on it relentlessly. I’ve always just responded to you guys’ calling, and never initiated anything. So if you don’t come back anymore, I certainly have no desire to continue this conversation since the intent was never to change your protocol.

I still believe R2R is a place that welcomes different points of view as long as they make sense. I believe I’ve done that, especially with Jay and others agree on the problem surrounding the longevity issue with praziquantel. Is it 36 or 72 hours? Who knows at this pt but it should be clear that my approach isn’t built on non-sense.

I much appreciate Jay’s approach that stays on facts for the purpose of education, instead of your approach. I suggest you, as a fish medic, to learn from Jay. Stay on facts, have some open dialogue around it, and acknowledge that some of the protocols still could have room for improvement if and when more scientific facts are available.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Idk what you are talking about. I’ve never “not” let it go. You keep on coming back to me, so I had to state it over and over again that it’s your protocol and I have no desire to get involved in changing it. The whole thing started with someone asked an open question so I responded. Then all of a sudden both Vetteguy and you are on it relentlessly. I’ve always just responded to you guys’ calling, and never initiated anything. So if you don’t come back anything more, I certainly have no desire to continue this conversation since the intent was never to change your protocol.

I still believe R2R is a place that welcomes different point of views as long as they make sense. I believe I’ve done that, especially with Jay and others agree on the problem surrounding the longevity issue with praziquantel. Is it 36 or 72 hours? Who knows at this pt but it should be clear that my approach isn’t built on non-sense.

I much appreciate Jay’s approach that stays on facts for the purpose of education, instead of your approach. I suggest you, as a fish medic, to learn from Jay. Stay on facts, have some open dialogue around it, and acknowledge that some of the protocols still could have room for improvement if and when more scientific facts are available.

The question of how long prazi lasts in aquariums isn’t a set value. It is a sliding scale as more bacteria grows to consume it. Then, there is the issue of when does the dose drop below therapeutic levels? Prazi is expensive and the original 2.2 ppm dose was made by a public aquarium, so they went with the lowest dose that worked….but that means even a little bacterial degradation drops it below treatment level.
Basically - prazi causes the adult flukes to spasm and drop off the fish in a few hours to maybe a day.
Jay

 

[sc50964]

The question of how long prazi lasts in aquariums isn’t a set value. It is a sliding scale as more bacteria grows to consume it. Then, there is the issue of when does the dose drop below therapeutic levels? Prazi is expensive and the original 2.2 ppm dose was made by a public aquarium, so they went with the lowest dose that worked….but that means even a little bacterial degradation drops it below treatment level.
Basically - prazi causes the adult flukes to spasm and drop off the fish in a few hours to maybe a day.
Jay

To me, this is what works when it comes to the role of a fish medic - to educate & help to pass down knowledge instead of endless name calling and pointless back and forth.

I believe we’ve highjacked this thread long enough and I sure hope the other two fish medic reps don’t come back with any more non sense or name calling, as there must a wide universe of other possible offenders to these iron clad “protocols” that those two can go after.

 

[Rickybobby]

It's too bad. So dory is in 2:5ppm copper power tested with salifert. She ate the first two days but just hides and I'm not sure if she's eating. Sadly I'm sure this one won't make. It seems these little hippo tangs feom
The ocean die from a broken heart

 

[Rickybobby]

At this point guys I don't care what the tang has or doesn't I just want it to eat and swim and that's not happening. Is the copper to hard for her? These are the real questions

 

[Rickybobby]

Rip. I'm done with baby hippos the lfs has captive bred ones that they've had for months that are bigger I'm going to get one of those and not play around anymore

 

[MnFish1]

To me, this is what works when it comes to the role of a fish medic - to educate & help to pass down knowledge instead of endless name calling and pointless back and forth.

I believe we’ve highjacked this thread long enough and I sure hope the other two fish medic reps don’t come back with any more non sense or name calling, as there must a wide universe of other possible offenders to these iron clad “protocols” that those two can go after.

Agreed. The thread has been hijacked. Agreed. The goal of fish medics should be education. Agreed - Namecalling is not appropriate. Disagree about the protocols - which no one has said are 'iron-clad'. The issue comes up when someone comes up with their own protocol. Our answer is 'we use our protocol. The definition of 'Protocol' - is that it's basically 'iron-clad' - until it's changed. The protocol has been established based on the science followed by Jay - and we repeat it. Thats it. Best wishes with your tank!

 

[MnFish1]

To me, this is what works when it comes to the role of a fish medic - to educate & help to pass down knowledge instead of endless name calling and pointless back and forth.

I believe we’ve highjacked this thread long enough and I sure hope the other two fish medic reps don’t come back with any more non sense or name calling, as there must a wide universe of other possible offenders to these iron clad “protocols” that those two can go after.

By the way - I think the point Jay was making (and he can correct me) is that Prazipro acts quite quickly - and the key to reducing is not in 3 days - the key is killing the hatched eggs in 7 days. I think we're talking about 2 different things - how often CAN you dose Prazipro (the directions on the bottle) - vs. how often it makes sense to dose Prazipro - which is once - then repeat in 7 days. Perhaps @Jay Hemdal can amplify

 

[Aluco]

For prazipro you do want to wait 5-7 days in between the two treatments. I am pretty sure every 3 days won't kill the fish but for the sake of eliminating the flukes within their life cycle 5-7 days is what you aim for.

For copper power its either a full 30 days in therapeutic or 2 weeks then transfer into a completely sterile seperate tank and observe for a further 2 weeks.

If there is any confusion or you are getting mixed information you don't know what to trust, just play it safe and do the full 30 days cu.

 

[MnFish1]

For prazipro you do want to wait 5-7 days in between the two treatments. I am pretty sure every 3 days won't kill the fish but for the sake of eliminating the flukes within their life cycle 5-7 days is what you aim for.

For copper power its either a full 30 days in therapeutic or 2 weeks then transfer into a completely sterile seperate tank and observe for a further 2 weeks.

If there is any confusion or you are getting mixed information you don't know what to trust, just play it safe and do the full 30 days cu.

The idea is if you dose prazipro on day 1, you will have quick results. Any eggs, new hatchlings will need treatment on day 7-8. As to the copper - that is the idea

 

[Rickybobby]

Hi it's me I'm the original poster. You guys went way crazy for this.

 

[Aluco]

You lost the hippo? I'm sorry for your loss. The forums (all of them) can be a great source for info but they aren't immune to squabbles and disagreements, sorry if you found it hard to get appropriate help, it's usually more straight forward than all this heh

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It's too bad. So dory is in 2:5ppm copper power tested with salifert. She ate the first two days but just hides and I'm not sure if she's eating. Sadly I'm sure this one won't make. It seems these little hippo tangs feom
The ocean die from a broken heart

I'm confused - I thought the Salifert kit didn't work on chelated copper products? The API kit is difficult to read, but it works with coppersafe and copper power.

Jay

 

[Aluco]

I'm confused - I thought the Salifert kit didn't work on chelated copper products? The API kit is difficult to read, but it works with coppersafe and copper power.

Jay

Are you thinking copper overdose?

 

[Spare time]

I may be crazy but I follow a very strict quarantine process on any fish I acquire. I start with 30 days of copper + rid ich combined. Then I continue with 2 weeks of nitrofurazone(Furan 2) or erythromycin as an antibacterial precaution. And finish with 2 weeks of PraziPro treatment for internal parasites. Followed by 2 weeks of observation prior to adding to my systems. During this entire process I do weekly water changes unless otherwise requiring more. During water changes the QT system and all equipment are sterilized using 70% isopropyl alcohol. This is my process, however I know many others who do nothing and have similar success with fish.

Might want to skip antibiotics unless you have a confirmed infection. They are actively harmful to the fish's health (as they are to ours). But kudos to you for such a strict regiment