Nitrae/Phosphate Ratio - Super high Phosphate, and bottoming out Nitrate.

[SauceyReef]

Does anyone here know what nutrient MicroBacter7 targets more? PO4, or NO3? Equal split?

I am thinking of using this as a nutrient exporter while adding C.Nitrate do ensure no nitrate bottoming out.

 

[SauceyReef]

I am going to switch to ROWA GFO for now. If I stop the PHOSGUARD, the phosphates just shoot back up. The microbacter7 doesn't seem like its effecting the phosphate level at all, just nitrates. Hopefully the ROWA does a better job than the phosguard, and isn't risking a fast dip, or alluminum contamination.

 

[SauceyReef]

Not sure if I should start another thread... I still have questions haha.

I had to stop dosing MicroBacter7. It was just shooting down my Nitrate and doing nothing to lower Phosphate. I also scratched the PHOSGUARD. I am just going to do small amounts of ROWA. Looks like from the calculator it is 10 grams per 10 gallon, so I will probably start with 5 grams to be safe and slow. Other than that, the tank is looking good!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not sure if I should start another thread... I still have questions haha.

I had to stop dosing MicroBacter7. It was just shooting down my Nitrate and doing nothing to lower Phosphate. I also scratched the PHOSGUARD. I am just going to do small amounts of ROWA. Looks like from the calculator it is 10 grams per 10 gallon, so I will probably start with 5 grams to be safe and slow. Other than that, the tank is looking good!

What other questions? GFO is a fine plan if you believe you need to lower phosphate. What is the current phosphate level?

IMO, adding bacteria to remove nutrients is not an especially good plan from a pure nutrient perspective.

 

[SauceyReef]

What other questions? GFO is a fine plan if you believe you need to lower phosphate. What is the current phosphate level?

IMO, adding bacteria to remove nutrients is not an especially good plan from a pure nutrient perspective.

My biggest questions: is it normal for Micro Bacter 7 to go for nitrate and not phosphate? Also, I am largely wondering if there is some bacteria or pellet food that solely focuses on phosphate removal? That would probably be quite a good alternative for me right now!

I am curious why you think rowa would be a better alternative than this? And why you think it wouldn’t be a good plan.

Thank you for the continued help!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My biggest questions: is it normal for Micro Bacter 7 to go for nitrate and not phosphate? Also, I am largely wondering if there is some bacteria or pellet food that solely focuses on phosphate removal? That would probably be quite a good alternative for me right now!

I am curious why you think rowa would be a better alternative than this? And why you think it wouldn’t be a good plan.

Thank you for the continued help!

Why I think what wouldn’t be a good plan?

Trying to find a low phosphate food? That is easy to answer, and is a well known problem in human nutrition for people with kidney failure who accumulate phosphate: it is hard, if not impossible to get enough protein in a diet without consuming significant phosphate. One can certainly pick lower P/N foods, but they may not be nutritionally complete or palatable to fish.

 

[SauceyReef]

Why I think what wouldn’t be a good plan?

Trying to find a low phosphate food? That is easy to answer, and is a well known problem in human nutrition for people with kidney failure who accumulate phosphate: it is hard, if not impossible to get enough protein in a diet without consuming significant phosphate. One can certainly pick lower P/N foods, but they may not be nutritionally complete or palatable to fish.

I am just going off of what you said here: "IMO, adding bacteria to remove nutrients is not an especially good plan from a pure nutrient perspective." - I was wondering why you think its not a good plan from a pure nutrient perspective. Just trying to dissect your thought process a bit more! Sorry for my confusion.

I have heard of pellet food absorbing nutrients somehow. Maybe because it creates an excess of a certain bacteria in the water that consumes a specific type of waste? I think this is where I am coming from hoping to find a bacteria or pellet food type that reduces phosphates. I could be totally off here..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am just going off of what you said here: "IMO, adding bacteria to remove nutrients is not an especially good plan from a pure nutrient perspective." - I was wondering why you think its not a good plan from a pure nutrient perspective. Just trying to dissect your thought process a bit more! Sorry for my confusion.

I have heard of pellet food absorbing nutrients somehow. Maybe because it creates an excess of a certain bacteria in the water that consumes a specific type of waste? I think this is where I am coming from hoping to find a bacteria or pellet food type that reduces phosphates. I could be totally off here..

It’s basically adding a food that will ultimately be digested and release its nutrients, unless you skim it out first. The bacteria may take up a small amount of N and P before being eaten or skimmed, but it seems like a losing proposition to me to reduce nutrients by adding bacteria.

 

[SauceyReef]

It’s basically adding a food that will ultimately be digested and release its nutrients, unless you skim it out first. The bacteria may take up a small amount of N and P before being eaten or skimmed, but it seems like a losing proposition to me to reduce nutrients by adding bacteria.

Okay, I see what you are saying. Time to put my faith in ROWA! Sounds like it should fair a little better as a slow and steady phosphate removal than phosguard, and not risk any aluminum.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Currently, my nitrates are 0.25 and phosphates 0.15, both measured using hanna low range checkers. I can't seem to get my phosphates to go below this level even after a fresh batch of GFO goes into the reactor. Is this likely due to the rocks and sand? Quite happy although I wouldn't mind if i could keep the phosphate below 0.1 of there abouts.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Currently, my nitrates are 0.25 and phosphates 0.15, both measured using hanna low range checkers. I can't seem to get my phosphates to go below this level even after a fresh batch of GFO goes into the reactor. Is this likely due to the rocks and sand? Quite happy although I wouldn't mind if i could keep the phosphate below 0.1 of there abouts.

IMO, raising nitrate or dosing N somehow is more important for you than lowering phospahte.

Once phosphate is elevated, it can be very slow to drop due to release of bound phospahte from rock and sand surfaces.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

IMO, raising nitrate or dosing N somehow is more important for you than lowering phospahte.

Once phosphate is elevated, it can be very slow to drop due to release of bound phospahte from rock and sand surfaces.

yes i am dosing the recommended amount of ATI Nitrogen which doesn't necessarily show up on a nitrate test. Corals all seem happy

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yes i am dosing the recommended amount of ATI Nitrogen which doesn't necessarily show up on a nitrate test. Corals all seem happy

I'd recommend dosing more of it until nitrate rose. Even if the ingredients are not readily detected, lack of nitrate being higher suggest to me that N is still a limiting nutrient. If the product satisfied all N needs, then nitrate would likely be rising as it was made from fish foods.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I'd recommend dosing more of it until nitrate rose. Even if the ingredients are not readily detected, lack of nitrate being higher suggest to me that N is still a limiting nutrient. If the product satisfied all N needs, then nitrate would likely be rising as it was made from fish foods.

You are not meant to do that with this product, I could dose additional nitrate via a different nitrate product I have. I am not worried my tanks always end up like this with high phosphate and next to no nitrates. This is due to using lots of good quality rock. The corals will grow fine, ill keep any eye on it though and if things look to be starving ill do something.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You are not meant to do that with this product, I could dose additional nitrate via a different nitrate product I have. I am not worried my tanks always end up like this with high phosphate and next to no nitrates. This is due to using lots of good quality rock. The corals will grow fine, ill keep any eye on it though and if things look to be starving ill do something.

I do not agree that low nitrate is as simple as using good quality rock. Lots of folks use good quality rock and do not have nitrate that low. It's a balance between foods and export, including the rock. If the balance is tipped to too little food for the export, then nitrate will be low.

Regardless of the reason, however, having it that low (below 2 ppm, IMO) runs a risk of N being limiting, even with dosing of other compounds.

I do not doubt that your approach is recommended by some folks, but I think my suggestion is superior, unless your goal is to intentionally keep nitrate at that level, in which case, you are assuming that the "recommended" dose of whatever is in that product is perfectly suited to your specific aquarium.

 

[SauceyReef]

Currently, my nitrates are 0.25 and phosphates 0.15, both measured using hanna low range checkers. I can't seem to get my phosphates to go below this level even after a fresh batch of GFO goes into the reactor. Is this likely due to the rocks and sand? Quite happy although I wouldn't mind if i could keep the phosphate below 0.1 of there abouts.

I think those levels are good! Just keep trying to bump up the Nitrate as reccomended by @Randy Holmes-Farley. It is amazing what it is doing for me. See the reply below this. The video above we shared also goes in depth of showing multiple lovely full mixed reefs ranging from 1.0-2.0ppm phosphates. My tank was at 1.5ppm and was basically fine. 0.15ppm is near perfect.. You are nowhere near a high phosphate level. Just a slightly low Nitrate level like me haha. But we're not at 0!

IMO, raising nitrate or dosing N somehow is more important for you than lowering phospahte.

Once phosphate is elevated, it can be very slow to drop due to release of bound phospahte from rock and sand surfaces.

I stopped using any PHOSGUARD and for some reason now my phosphate has lowered to around .5ppm, and my nitrate at .2ppm. Tank looks great! Really makes no sense other than possibly the added calcium nitrate is working long term to finally help reduce the phosphate. I'll just keep at it with the constant testing and adding calcium nitrate, and see if this just stabilizes the tank more and more. Again, thanks for your help.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I do not agree that low nitrate is as simple as using good quality rock. Lots of folks use good quality rock and do not have nitrate that low. It's a balance between foods and export, including the rock. If the balance is tipped to too little food for the export, then nitrate will be low.

Regardless of the reason, however, having it that low (below 2 ppm, IMO) runs a risk of N being limiting, even with dosing of other compounds.

I do not doubt that your approach is recommended by some folks, but I think my suggestion is superior, unless your goal is to intentionally keep nitrate at that level, in which case, you are assuming that the "recommended" dose of whatever is in that product is perfectly suited to your specific aquarium.

I'm going to monitor it over time and see what happens, and will slowly increase the dose a bit. It states on the instructions that if you see a significant rise in nitrate while dosing this product then your dosing too much as the intent of the product is not to raise nutrient levels. I have not been dosing the ATI Nitrogen product for that long, but I do expect to see some change in nitrate readings. Ideally, it would be around 2ppm.

Of course, rock is not the only component in having low nitrates but it plays a big part. I had high nitrates at one point in this tank and when I replaced the crappy rock with good porous live rock my nitrate immediately started to drop. I can literally see little bubbles forming and coming out of the pores. Also, I don't underfeed I feed a lot of flakes and pellets hence why phosphate gets high. I find it hard to understand how someone can end up with high nitrates and low phosphates they must set up and run their tanks completely differently from me.

 

[SauceyReef]

Well my PO4 has been stable around .60 ppm and my nitrate .10 ppm with daily nitrate dosing and no media. Should I even try to change anything if the corals look good??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well my PO4 has been stable around .60 ppm and my nitrate .10 ppm with daily nitrate dosing and no media. Should I even try to change anything if the corals look good??

Assuming you mean 10 ppm nitrate, then, IMO, if you are happy with the appearance of the system, then no, I wouldn't do anything. If you are a tinkerer and like to be doing things, then I'd look to lower phosphate.

 

[SauceyReef]

Assuming you mean 10 ppm nitrate, then, IMO, if you are happy with the appearance of the system, then no, I wouldn't do anything. If you are a tinkerer and like to be doing things, then I'd look to lower phosphate.

Thank you! Yes - I did mean 10ppm Nitrate. I think I will experiment with very small amounts of ROWA in a little bit, and see if the corals get happier if the PO4 gets slowly lowered. Until than I will bask in finally finding SOME balance in my tank.. For like 2 months I have been testing nutrients near every other day.