New tank fish IN cycle, ammonia won't go down

[RyanP]

Lethal levels of ammonia are higher than 1.2 ppm.

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

ALL of the data supports the idea that few of these fish (much less than half) would die in 10-20 ppm total ammonia in 2 days. It takes 4 days in more than twice as much ammonia to kill even half of them.

Thanks for the reply. I have read your thread and the 2 papers. Honestly, I think a LOT of the confusion on this forum Is the different ways and terminology of reporting ammonia in different threads and replies with a bunch of non chemists. UAI-N, NH3-N, TA N, etc.. these papers are confusing for non chemists.

The paper you link is clear with UAI N vs TA N, but the other one with clownfish specifically which I am interested in, isn’t 100% clear for me.
If I am understanding correctly, the clownfish paper is saying NH3-N 1.2, so that is UN-Ionized and would be a number that is derived from converting using PH and Temp from my Hannah reading correct? Is this the same as saying UAI N in the other paper? If so, then my levels of 0.042 UAI-N are way below the lethal levels in the papers

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the reply. I have read your thread and the 2 papers. Honestly, I think a LOT of the confusion on this forum Is the different ways and terminology of reporting ammonia in different threads and replies with a bunch of non chemists. UAI-N, NH3-N, TA N, etc.. these papers are confusing for non chemists.

The paper you link is clear with UAI N vs TA N, but the other one with clownfish specifically which I am interested in, isn’t 100% clear for me.
If I am understanding correctly, the clownfish paper is saying NH3-N 1.2, so that is UN-Ionized and would be a number that is derived from converting using PH and Temp from my Hannah reading correct? Is this the same as saying UAI N in the other paper? If so, then my levels of 0.042 UAI-N are way below the lethal levels in the papers

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

I don’t have access to that paper in my phone to double check, but here is the analysis I gave ln that thread:

Yes, a little more toxic, with the LC50 in 24 h being 1.06 ppm free ammonia, which corresponds to ~25 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.

 

[RyanP]

I don’t have access to that paper in my phone to double check, but here is the analysis I gave ln that thread:

Yes, a little more toxic, with the LC50 in 24 h being 1.06 ppm free ammonia, which corresponds to ~25 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.

Got it, I saw that note you made. Thanks again.

 

[Aidan_823]

Another safety idea for the fish could be to add prime to bind the ammonia and stop it being toxic to fish, but it only lasts two days then you need to repeat. It sends the skimmer wild though!

Dose prime 1/2 to 3/4 of a full dose though, if you dose full your bacteria will be starved and may end up resetting the cycle.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dose prime 1/2 to 3/4 of a full dose though, if you dose full your bacteria will be starved and may end up resetting the cycle.

Prime appears to be useless with respect to ammonia. Don’t be fooled by claims.

 

[RyanP]

can't wait to see in ten days if this tank lives perfectly, as fritz is known to do.

Things are looking good in the tank and trending in the right direction now on day 10. Fish have been in since day 1.

Ammonia
TA N
Day 7 - 1.05
Day 8 - 0.66 (after 40% water change and 2nd bottle Fritz)
Day 9 - 0.59
Day 10 - 0.44 or (*0.032 toxic NH3)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Things are looking good in the tank and trending in the right direction now on day 10. Fish have been in since day 1.

Ammonia
TA N
Day 7 - 1.05
Day 8 - 0.66 (after 40% water change and 2nd bottle Fritz)
Day 9 - 0.59
Day 10 - 0.44 or (*0.032 toxic NH3)

Looks good.

 

[RyanP]

TA N ammonia
Day 11 - 0.36

I think the numbers have been very consistent and repeatable with the Hannah and it was a worthwhile piece of mind over the guess your color tests with significant variance potential. It appears, as Randy and Brandon have stated, these cheap test kits and “commonly stated” toxicity levels (I was within and beyond) are overblown and cause undue alarm/panic with bottle bacteria. Although my TA N “numbers” moved much slower than anticipated, my fish have looked normal, active, and feeding well from day 1 to day 11, even when sitting above 1.0 ppm TA N for a couple days and my seachem badge warning.

Thank you all for the guidance through my initial panic.

 

[RyanP]

Day 16

Tank parameters have stabilized.

Hanah has been showing 0.16 for three days now. This appears to be my tank's "zero ammonia" baseline level.

@brandon429

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Day 16

Tank parameters have stabilized.

Hanah has been showing 0.16 for three days now. This appears to be my tank's "zero ammonia" baseline level.

@brandon429

It may be accurate, or it may not be, but I’d certainly stop testing. It should not be a goal for reefers to attain undetectable ammonia.

 

[RyanP]

It may be accurate, or it may not be, but I’d certainly stop testing. It should not be a goal for reefers to attain undetectable ammonia.

Thanks Randy,

I won't be testing for ammonia anymore. I just added that final post to show anyone else new also using a Hanah, that they probably shouldn't expect a zero reading either. I know that now, thanks to you folks who understand this better than me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You’re welcome.

Happy Reefing.