Neptune refusing to fix known problem

[areefer01]

After reading everything here you seem to be the only one with a bigger issue. OP is intetitled to express himself and do with his time as he sees fit. How come him not helping with support hurts you so much? He has a problem, getting generic answers from Neptune. it’s a forum buddy. Get some big boy pants and stop crying because he might not answer your questions anymore.

Doesn't hurt me at all. Doesn't impact me one way or another. Do you think Neptune is going to say OMG they are not going to support us anymore? They are aware. They replied. Running to a forum and threatening them is the problem and not necessary.

It is how it is handled.

 

[jDoSe]

There is what appears to be a global issue effecting a reasonably large number of apex users that is disabling text message notifications. I made them aware of the issue and they basically refused to fix it.

I have given Neptune the ultimatum that I will not be providing programming assistance until they resolve this matter (I am Zombie on Neptune forums). If you agree with my sentiment, please send an email to [email protected]. I will resume my help when they actually attempt to resolve the problem.


This is the canned response they gave me.

"
Hi Jonathan,

Sorry for any inconvenience you are having.

This bounced message happens when Fusion sends a message for an alarm condition to a phone carrier to send that customer a text message. If the phone provider does not accept the message and bounces it back to us. Once this happens multiple times, we then block the number. This Bounced Message is the only way we can now notify you that you might not get alarms from the Apex due to the carrier is not allowing the messages to be sent to you.

This is now happening more frequently than before due to the recent spam SMS's that everyone is getting, phone carriers have started blocking certain SMS request and sometime this is alarms to our customer. We know how important it is to know instantly if there is an issue with our tanks. Because of these changes phone carriers are now making, we have been forced to recommend using push notifications through the Fusion App as a primary way to be notified of an issue. This type of alarms gets to you faster than SMS and emails do.

With all that being said, unfortunately, we will not be able to unblock your number. Generally speaking, we are beginning the process to move away from text message alerts for several reasons and have moved to a policy to not enable blocked numbers. I apologize, we are not able to meet your request in this ticket at this time.

Here is another company that was faced with the same issues:
https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/important-changes-to-the-sms-service/

The team will still be looking to see how we can provide SMS support again. However, it needs to make sure it meets our strict standards of making sure you know immediately if there is a problem, so we know how best to act in that situation.

Thank you for your understanding, and I know we are still looking for how we can reliably offer constant SMS Alarms that we can rely on.


Below is how to get push notifications and remove SMS alarm about bounced messages.

• If you do not already have Push Notification set up, then please delete the Apex Fusion app from your mobile device and re-install it. (This will not lose your programming) When you re-install the Apex Fusion app on iOS, it will ask if you want push notification. However, on Android it is enabled automatically.

• To remove your SMS number, navigate to your username in the upper right corner of Fusion and click on Setting and then Notifications. Find the SMS and remove it, and this will remove the alarm bell.

Please let us know if you have any other questions, or need any additional clarification."

I’m sorry I’ve read this entire thread…how is this neptune’s fault? What’s the solution you want them to implement that they are refusing?

Same as another poster, the company i work for sends out tens of thousands of these alert messages. We use twilio as well as other providers. For smaller notifications, we do it ourselves.

This is a problem almost everyone who sends out repeated similar texts runs into…happens to us all the time. Our messages constantly get blocked as spam. We then have to go through back-channels at verizon att etc to get our number unblocked. If you haven’t tried to do that, I don’t think you’d appreciate how hard it really is…

I don’t see how this is Neptune refusing to help. They have to go to their service provider and/or carriers to try get resolved…it takes time…verizon and att are notoriously difficult to get anything done, let alone find the right person to even put in the request…And after 20 emails and 6 people they say “we didn’t block it” and close your ticket. And you have to start over…

 

[Mattiejay6]

Doesn't hurt me at all. Doesn't impact me one way or another. Do you think Neptune is going to say OMG they are not going to support us anymore? They are aware. They replied. Running to a forum and threatening them is the problem and not necessary.

It is how it is handled.

or not.

 

[areefer01]

or not.

Ok, let us try this another way. Do you think SuncrestReef would act or make a post like this?

 

[rhostam]

Not so uncommon with SaaS applications. My last employer offers SMS notifications and had to contend with similar issues and implement similar measures. We weren’t an niche as Neptune users, either, as we serviced restaurant scheduling. You can imagine the annoyance. The same happens for email. Both are jealously protected and so is better to block an individual contact than risk all messaging being blocked by being black listed [as a vendor].

The solution for our app is as Neptune indicated, enable push notifications through the app.

They didn’t create the situation any more than my former employer did or the end users. But they’re the ones getting the black eyes and users are getting miffed because they don’t care about details. But details matter.

 

[mehaffydr]

I use push notifications too. I have used text notifications as my primary source for 10 years and the push notifications as a backup since they released fusion.

The problem here is not that there were issues that require me to use push only for the time being. The problem here is that they blocked my number from ever receiving text again without even looking into the actual reason that it occurred and told be they won't unblock it due to "policy" even though I made it well aware that this is a common issue that very recently popped up issues in at least 4 other people within days of this event with me.

I'm sure no expert in this but if the text notifications are being blocked by the phone carrier even if they unblock your number wouldn't the phone carrier just continue to block them anyway?

 

[rhostam]

Yes, but that doesn't excuse permanently locking out people who had messages bounce. It would be understandable if they were temporarily disabled and they sent a push notification saying as such but allowed you to re-link the phone number with successful messages.

It's bad customer service to even the average Joe, let alone they guy who essentially comprises like a third of all programming assistance ever given on Neptune Forums.

I would expect them to phase out SMS messaging soon enough. Its expensive and a hassle. I know that’s we’re doing (at former employer).

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I’m sorry I’ve read this entire thread…how is this neptune’s fault? What’s the solution you want them to implement that they are refusing?

I want them to unblock all the affected numbers and actually look into the fact that a large number of people very recently were afflicted by this issue. Ie they probably made a change on their end that is the actual problem.

I ran a bunch of tests on my SMS and my carrier isn't bouncing anything from outlook or Gmail, so this is very likely an issue on their end. Add to it the spike in complaints on the forum makes it even more likely.

All of this was brought to their attention in the initial post and I get what appears to be a cut and paste form response rather than an actual genuine look at the issue, and being told that my number is PERMANENTLY blocked from the system.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I'm sure no expert in this but if the text notifications are being blocked by the phone carrier even if they unblock your number wouldn't the phone carrier just continue to block them anyway?

They aren't being blocked by my carrier. Tested on two other platforms. I suspect a message bounced cause I had a push notification while traveling through a dead zone in cell coverage. I suspect they recently drastically lowered the required bounced to lock out a number, and they admitted in the email they recently changed their policy to not unblock numbers.

 

[flagg37]

@ZombieEngineer, I’m trying to understand how this happened in the first place. It sound like your apex unit’s alarm was tripped from some condition and then Fusion sent out a text but it got stopped at the carrier and returned to Fusion. This happened 3 times and Neptune’s policy is to block the number when this happens. I wonder why the carrier didn’t allow the text to go through. I wasn’t aware that carriers even did that. Are there texts that I send that get stopped by the carrier?

 

[mehaffydr]

They aren't being blocked. Tested on two other platforms.

Thanks for clarifying.
I guess I saw that in the Neptune response.
I saw this quote
"If the phone provider does not accept the message and bounces it back to us. Once this happens multiple times, we then block the number"
I thought this was saying that the text to you was bounced back to them?

 

[jDoSe]

Yes, but that doesn't excuse permanently locking out people who had messages bounce. It would be understandable if they were temporarily disabled and they sent a push notification saying as such but allowed you to re-link the phone number with successful messages.

It's bad customer service to even the average Joe, let alone they guy who essentially comprises like a third of all programming assistance ever given on Neptune Forums.

I think that “permanently” is the part they are working on. Why would they unblock it, if it’s just going to get reported as spam and undeliverable 3 more times?

We did this to customers of ours all the time. We had to stop them from sending messages using our API because they were getting our completely unassociated messages marked as spam and getting our messages blocked!
Not only would this stop us from reaching other users using the application, but it would affect any of our apps using the same number/service!

The only thing they can do is make a policy exception, just for you because of your importance…
They may have already tried a manual test in the background and it failed, so no point in unblocking.

There’s many things they can look into…contacting carriers for special whitelist treatment (which we have and occasionally STILL get blocked, but better than without), using a different or second/third messaging service (but they may need to build a whole system where when one gets blocked it tries another), contacting their messaging provider, or changing the actual text in the message to not get flagged as spam (we’ve had to do this many times, from changing text to changing links, to changing punctuation…it all affects if a message gets flagged or not. Not only do different carriers have different rules, but you need to put in the work to just find out WHY something was flagged in the first place.)

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Thanks for clarifying.
I guess I saw that in the Neptune response.
I saw this quote
"If the phone provider does not accept the message and bounces it back to us. Once this happens multiple times, we then block the number"
I thought this was saying that the text to you was bounced back to them?

No. That was them sending me a generic form message without actually looking I to the problem, which is part of why I am so mad. To be fair, I did this testing after they sent the form response, but they could have at least asked. It's a really simple test for me to send an email to my phone and see it go through.

 

[gbroadbridge]

There is what appears to be a global issue effecting a reasonably large number of apex users that is disabling text message notifications. I made them aware of the issue and they basically refused to fix it.

I have given Neptune the ultimatum that I will not be providing programming assistance until they resolve this matter (I am Zombie on Neptune forums). If you agree with my sentiment, please send an email to [email protected]. I will resume my help when they actually attempt to resolve the problem.


This is the canned response they gave me.

"
Hi Jonathan,

Sorry for any inconvenience you are having.

This bounced message happens when Fusion sends a message for an alarm condition to a phone carrier to send that customer a text message. If the phone provider does not accept the message and bounces it back to us. Once this happens multiple times, we then block the number. This Bounced Message is the only way we can now notify you that you might not get alarms from the Apex due to the carrier is not allowing the messages to be sent to you.

This is now happening more frequently than before due to the recent spam SMS's that everyone is getting, phone carriers have started blocking certain SMS request and sometime this is alarms to our customer. We know how important it is to know instantly if there is an issue with our tanks. Because of these changes phone carriers are now making, we have been forced to recommend using push notifications through the Fusion App as a primary way to be notified of an issue. This type of alarms gets to you faster than SMS and emails do.

With all that being said, unfortunately, we will not be able to unblock your number. Generally speaking, we are beginning the process to move away from text message alerts for several reasons and have moved to a policy to not enable blocked numbers. I apologize, we are not able to meet your request in this ticket at this time.

Here is another company that was faced with the same issues:
https://www.coralvuehydros.com/product-support/hydros-control/important-changes-to-the-sms-service/

The team will still be looking to see how we can provide SMS support again. However, it needs to make sure it meets our strict standards of making sure you know immediately if there is a problem, so we know how best to act in that situation.

Thank you for your understanding, and I know we are still looking for how we can reliably offer constant SMS Alarms that we can rely on.


Below is how to get push notifications and remove SMS alarm about bounced messages.

• If you do not already have Push Notification set up, then please delete the Apex Fusion app from your mobile device and re-install it. (This will not lose your programming) When you re-install the Apex Fusion app on iOS, it will ask if you want push notification. However, on Android it is enabled automatically.

• To remove your SMS number, navigate to your username in the upper right corner of Fusion and click on Setting and then Notifications. Find the SMS and remove it, and this will remove the alarm bell.

Please let us know if you have any other questions, or need any additional clarification."

Seems to me that their response is quite reasonable.

The problem is global and many SMS text messaging services and Telco's re blocking valid SMS communications.

App notifications are superior in my mind anyway.

 

[jDoSe]

I want them to unblock all the affected numbers and actually look into the fact that a large number of people very recently were afflicted by this issue. Ie they probably made a change on their end that is the actual problem.

I ran a bunch of tests on my SMS and my carrier isn't bouncing anything from outlook or Gmail, so this is very likely an issue on their end. Add to it the spike in complaints on the forum makes it even more likely.

All of this was brought to their attention in the initial post and I get what appears to be a cut and paste form response rather than an actual genuine look at the issue, and being told that my number is PERMANENTLY blocked from the system.

This was mostly covered in my post. We send out waaay more messages than neptune at my company. Every time we have one of these “outages” and our message start getting blocked randomly, it has NEVER been because of a change WE made. Not once. It’s possible it’s because of a change they made, but i’d say 90%+ was out of their control.

It happened to us again just yesterday…still trying to work around it. When you send as much as we do, you eventually run out of service providers…SMS is a nightmare. Keep in mind we charge for every text we send out too…It’s very expensive if you want to send out thousands a second.

It may only temporarily be permanently-blocked…if that makes sense…They may need to find a work-around before they unblock and may not know when that’ll be.

Knowing what I know about sending SMS, that response it pretty spot-on, even if copypaste.

Your tests from gmail and outlook succeed because they don’t have the text from a neptune alert and are not from neptune. The neptune text alerts all look similar with similar text. A lot of times, when this gets sent to enough”random” people, this is actual spam. If there’s a link in the text, definite spam/scammer! That’s how carriers treat texts…

We have a whole process to have numbers actually opt-in. We have to record the proof of every single number opting in and use it to get our number/message unblocked by carriers. To sign up you add your number to our portal and we send a text to you asking to enroll/opt in and you have to say YES. We have to log literally every message…and keep it forever…

 

[JeffB418]

I would expect them to phase out SMS messaging soon enough. Its expensive and a hassle. I know that’s we’re doing (at former employer).

I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s expensive.

 

[GobyGuy]

I just wonder if this is a phone carrier issue, on top of Neptune locking out the number.

I think it’s what they’re trying to say is that carriers are being more aggressive with “alert” style pings to carriers to get a text message sent so now companies are left to work with other companies and especially ISP’s known to take forever to do anything in the benefit of their customers? Good luck haha I hope fusion is developed enough to be standalone app

 

[GobyGuy]

I th

As someone who owns a company that uses programmatic SMS and who employs Twilio programmers, I’ll tell you that it’s getting a lot stricter. It’s a very complex issue and a large portion of it is outside of any one’s control excepting the carriers. I would suspect that they’re having issues that are related to carrier and/or compliance that aren’t entirely within their ability to control. Things like spam reports and opt-out rates can negatively impact deliverability via certain carriers, area codes, etc resulting in outages they can’t control. Of course, I can’t be certain that this is the issue, but I can say it’s a complex, multi-pronged problem

I think the twilio experience is perfectly applicable to this situation I’d be surprised if apex didn’t run something very similarp

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

EDIT: Second thought I'm not engaging....

 

[ZombieEngineer]

@NeptunePaul Daily bump, which will keep happening until Neptune responds with an actual attempt to remediate this problem.