Need help with diagnosis and cure

[Adahm]

Recently and after almost as long as I have owned this aquarium, around 1.5 years of siphoning out this green mat (I assume cyano) off from rock and corals, I finally decided to take out all the old rock from my tank and replaced it with live rock I had curing for the last 6 months in a brute container in darkness. Siphoning was followed by water changes of 20% to 30% every two weeks (sometimes a bit longer). Along with this I have also found a lot of slime buildup in the sump, looks like clear snot with bubbles film floating on the water.

I'll admit this tank was pretty neglected over the last 4 -6 months with sporadic water changes and siphoning. It has got to the point that all rock surfaces with light exposure and some corals were completely covered with the green mat. There was a small amount of it also around and on some coral frags on the sand. Surfaces not directly illuminated were not affected.

About a month later, I seem to have the green mat still growing one the couple of rocks and frags and some coral I had remaining in addition to what look like dinoflagellates and hair algae.

Furthermore, I have not had much luck with adding fish to the aquarium, initially, I had a QT set up with various treatments but after adding to the tank the fish would develop a disease and die or survive for a while but not for long. The most recent fishes have been added without any QT and have been in the tank for about 6 months to 1 yr.

I need some help in identification and eradication of these nuisance and lingering issues I have a GFO and carbon reactor started as of two days ago. Have not tested the water since. As of now I am not dosing anything, only water changes.

Will add some pictures in a bit.

 

[Adahm]

Pics as of 1 week ago.

Green mat algea covering a frag. This was all over the rock that uas been replaced

In the zoa colony, this was siphoned and is about 1 week of growth

Pics below are indicative of some dino and hair algea that has appeared recently after replacing the most of the live rock.

Slime in the sump

A couple days back I took out a bunch of rock and cleaned with a brush and put back in tank. When the rocks were removed for cleaning they looked as if the rocks surfaces exposed to light had hairy brown slime. After cleaning all the rock in a 5 gallon bucket the residue that settled to the bottom was a 3/8" deep layer of brown sludge.

 

[Adahm]

Tank as it is now, it has been two days since I cleaned the rock and changed the scape.

 

[Adahm]

#reefsquad

 

[Adahm]

@Diesel

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hi, really need your parameters. No3 Po4 alk and PH, if you have it, how much is the swing at night.
Rodi water?
You really seem to need a bung of snails in there. What do you have for clean up crew. The light colored fuzzy stuff is totally snail food IMO IME.

Congrats on the big scrub. That's the first step to recovery.

 

[Diesel]

Yes, we need some parameters as mentioned.
Maybe a log from the last coupe test if you wrote it down.
In some of the pics I can see that stuff is dying, did you use maybe that Vibrant stuff?
Situations like this you want to test everyday.
Not only test water but also your new mixed salt water.

 

[Adahm]

Ok test results

NO3 Sailfert
2/1 between 0 and 2 ppm
1/25 5 ppm
1/8 between 5 and 10 ppm

PO4 Sailfert
2/1 Between 0 and 0.3 ppm
1/25 0.25 ppm
1/8 0.25 ppm

Alk API color change
Between 9 and 10 dkh
1/25 10 dkh
1/8 10 dkh

Ph
5 day avg 7.88
Max 8.08 min 7.81

Temp
5 day avg 76.91
Max 78.3 min 76.4 set to 77

Salinity 1.025 at tank and holding steady. ATO connected to RODI line

Salt used RSCP, I normally mix it at 1.025 - 1.026 check with temp compensated refractometer. Mixed for minimum 24 hours before water change, normally mixes for about 2 weeks as I fill and mix 30 gals right after the water change.

Water is RODI 5 stage. Currently not using chloramine block TDS is 0 and sometimes reads 1.

Tank water checked for no3 and po4 and read zero for both.

Started GFO reactor over the last weekend on Sunday with 1.75 cups GFO. Never used this before. Also threw in a media bag of rox 0.8 carbon 0.5 cups.

 

[Adahm]

Last major water change almost 4 weeks back. This was 40 gals. I had removed the sump for cleaning.

2/1 6 gals
1/29 8 gals

 

[Adahm]

Had about 10 hermit crabs, now only 3 left, all snails gone except 1 cowrie and 1 nassarius. Not sure if snail deaths were due to hermits or the green cyano

 

[Diesel]

Ok, well your numbers are not really alarming.
They can be better but as off now they shouldn't be the problem.
Reading through your history of your tank a few times I think what happen is that you made to many changes in a short time that made you tank unstable to balance out from changes.
For example taking out all your rock and replacing it, scrubbing all your rock and it is exposed to air for how long?
If you scrub do you use tank water?
Basically you are going through cycle stages and with a bunch of livestock in there your tank has a hard time to balance out in current situation.
We can do several things here.
First off we do a water change of 25% and the next day we go dark for three days.
Total darkness means turn lights off and cover tank, no day light or anything else aloud in there.
Leave all pumps running, no feeding, no peeking nothing.
We need to reduce the GFO in your reactor as well but we turn it off when we go dark
After that we reduce it to just one 3/4 cup but change it out every week, rinse every new batch for any dust before you put it in the reactor.
GFO dust ain't good for corals.
We step up our water changes (forgot what size tank this is) 15 gallon water change twice a week Monday and Fridays, for a the next two weeks.
When we change water you dose bacteria, I use Aquaforrest Bio-S but any kind is good.
Just the recommended dose for your tank size.

We test also for Cyano.
Take a portion of that red mat or green mat you see in your tank and place it into a cup with about 2 cups of tank water.
Now add 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide
Over the course of several hours you may start to see a change in the water and the color of your sample.
If in fact it is the common cyanobacteria and not spirulina the water will start to turn a pink color and the sample with start to turn a green color.
Now if it is spirulina there will be no change as h2o2 has little effect on the individual cells.
If it is cyano we will battle it, for the common Cylindrosperum sp. Cyanobacteria is the use of 3% hydrogen peroxide dosed at 1ml per 10 gallons of tank volume every 12 hours for 14 days

http://www.reefnation.com/understanding-cyanobacteria/

No feeding corals, feeding light on the fish every other day.
Need to order new CUC, "http://www.reefcleaners.org/"
Dwarf Cerith, 200
Florida Cerith 25
Zig Zag Periwinkles 100
A sampling of a variety of "pods" 4 bags
Nerite Snail 25
Nassarius Vibex 25
These will help you a lot as well.

This will bring you pretty much back to where you wanna be.
Remember we do one thing at the time and if you think you go slow, slow down even more.
Only bad things happen fast in this hobby.
As it will be a timely process but we have your back here.

Also we might have some coral loss maybe due to the darkness period but it's not due to the process but due to some corals are to weak as they are stressed by the off balance of you tank.

What is your lighting schedule?
What do you feed the fish and corals?
Have you done a Triton test, if so what were the results, if not do one.

 

[Adahm]

Ben,

Thank you taking the time to respond.

Ok, well your numbers are not really alarming.
They can be better but as off now they shouldn't be the problem.
Reading through your history of your tank a few times I think what happen is that you made to many changes in a short time that made you tank unstable to balance out from changes.
For example taking out all your rock and replacing it, scrubbing all your rock and it is exposed to air for how long?
If you scrub do you use tank water?
Basically you are going through cycle stages and with a bunch of livestock in there your tank has a hard time to balance out in current situation.

I can understand, even though I had put in cured rock its not seeing the same bioload as in the tank. Scrubbing was in tank water that I drained in a bucket, and post that the rock was in a dry tote for about 20 -30 minutes before going back into the tank.

I can see a very light dust on the rocks now after almost 5 days.

We can do several things here.
First off we do a water change of 25% and the next day we go dark for three days.
Total darkness means turn lights off and cover tank, no day light or anything else aloud in there.
Leave all pumps running, no feeding, no peeking nothing.
We need to reduce the GFO in your reactor as well but we turn it off when we go dark

OK, Do I have to absolutely stop feeding? Maybe leave a autofeeder in? I have Anthias in there.
Water mixing for a full 25% change. Tank is 110 gals, sump has about 30 gals, I will do 30 gals WC.

After that we reduce it to just one 3/4 cup but change it out every week, rinse every new batch for any dust before you put it in the reactor.
GFO dust ain't good for corals.

I based 1.75 cups on BRS calcuculator for starting point but within three days phosphate is almost undetectable. I will reduce to 0.75 cups. I do have a Kent phosphate sponge which I can use instead of changing GFO weekly and change out every 3 days?

We step up our water changes (forgot what size tank this is) 15 gallon water change twice a week Monday and Fridays, for a the next two weeks.
When we change water you dose bacteria, I use Aquaforrest Bio-S but any kind is good.
Just the recommended dose for your tank size.

OK, will hit one of the LFSs for some. I will also test for ammonia in the mean time. I suppose you are suggesting this as you think I may not have enough nitrifying bacteria for the bioload?

We test also for Cyano.
Take a portion of that red mat or green mat you see in your tank and place it into a cup with about 2 cups of tank water.
Now add 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide
Over the course of several hours you may start to see a change in the water and the color of your sample.
If in fact it is the common cyanobacteria and not spirulina the water will start to turn a pink color and the sample with start to turn a green color.
Now if it is spirulina there will be no change as h2o2 has little effect on the individual cells.
If it is cyano we will battle it, for the common Cylindrosperum sp. Cyanobacteria is the use of 3% hydrogen peroxide dosed at 1ml per 10 gallons of tank volume every 12 hours for 14 days

http://www.reefnation.com/understanding-cyanobacteria/

OK have started tonight, I am just using the regular H2O2 0.3%.

No feeding corals, feeding light on the fish every other day.

OK I am not feeding corals anyway. But as I noted above, I have Anthias. Can I do some light target feeding everyday?

Need to order new CUC, "http://www.reefcleaners.org/"
Dwarf Cerith, 200
Florida Cerith 25
Zig Zag Periwinkles 100
A sampling of a variety of "pods" 4 bags
Nerite Snail 25
Nassarius Vibex 25
These will help you a lot as well.

Wow these do sound like a lot! my tank is 110 plus 30 gals in sump. I have about 100 lbs of rock in there. Do I need these right way or after a a few weeks of bacteria dosing?

Also we might have some coral loss maybe due to the darkness period but it's not due to the process but due to some corals are to weak as they are stressed by the off balance of you tank.

I have a few acro frags in there an in fact in the last two week I see growth of about 1/4" on a digi and green staghorn. Have not seen this kind out growth since I have had them.

What is your lighting schedule?
What do you feed the fish and corals?
Have you done a Triton test, if so what were the results, if not do one.

Currently lighting is set to start Blue @3;30 pm with a 4 hour ramp up time to 75% intensity, whites start at 4:30p with a four hur ramp uo to 25% intensity lights ramp down for the same duration and off at 10:30p. I have 48 leds 3w cree 12 cool white and rest blue. This schedule was set last weekend, prior to this I was at 100% on blue and 50% on white and 3 hours longer photo period considering lesser ramp u time.

I will change the current light to two radion gen 4 next week.

No triton test yet, but can also do this. when would be a good time to take a sample? After water change?

 

[Adahm]

Starting test

 

[Diesel]

OK, Do I have to absolutely stop feeding? Maybe leave a autofeeder in? I have Anthias in there.
Water mixing for a full 25% change. Tank is 110 gals, sump has about 30 gals, I will do 30 gals WC.

You can do some light feeding of Mysis but rinse it well before you added this to your tank.
It's just to get your balance back in a natural way.
When everything is alright again you just feed them a mix I will give you in a later stage and you don't rinse that.

I based 1.75 cups on BRS calcuculator for starting point but within three days phosphate is almost undetectable. I will reduce to 0.75 cups. I do have a Kent phosphate sponge which I can use instead of changing GFO weekly and change out every 3 days?

Just stick with 0.75 cup and nothing else, we going to simplify this process.

OK, will hit one of the LFSs for some. I will also test for ammonia in the mean time. I suppose you are suggesting this as you think I may not have enough nitrifying bacteria for the bioload?

You can test for Ammonia but Po4 and No3 is much more important as of now.
Write down your testing's with date and time.

OK have started tonight, I am just using the regular H2O2 0.3%.

Started to test if you have Cyano or started the treatment without testing?

Wow these do sound like a lot! my tank is 110 plus 30 gals in sump. I have about 100 lbs of rock in there. Do I need these right way or after a a few weeks of bacteria dosing?

Most of these you won't even see again with lights on.
More than half will hide in the sand and rock and will come out when light are almost off.
Believe it ain't that many as many hobbyist just but a few snails and hermits by the LFS and they really don't helping you.
This is the way to go and if you not happy with them I reimburse your money back, sounds like a no brainer to me.
But if they do work out for you I want you to donate just half that you spend to the CRF

I have a few acro frags in there an in fact in the last two week I see growth of about 1/4" on a digi and green staghorn. Have not seen this kind out growth since I have had them.

Well, here you go you getting results all ready.
Now remember this "go slow and if you think you're going to slow................ slow down even more.
Only bad results happen overnight :mad:

Currently lighting is set to start Blue @3;30 pm with a 4 hour ramp up time to 75% intensity, whites start at 4:30p with a four hur ramp uo to 25% intensity lights ramp down for the same duration and off at 10:30p. I have 48 leds 3w cree 12 cool white and rest blue. This schedule was set last weekend, prior to this I was at 100% on blue and 50% on white and 3 hours longer photo period considering lesser ramp u time.

I will change the current light to two radion gen 4 next week.

No triton test yet, but can also do this. when would be a good time to take a sample? After water change?

Reduce some of the white light and turn red off.

Just do the triton test and be master over your tank and parameters as you will know which way you have to shift them, if you even have to.


Also remember there are many roads that lead to Rome (old Dutch saying) but just stick with one especially when you see results for the better.
I'm no Guru or magician but exercise common sense.
Keep us informed my friend.














@Jena Cooper

 

[Adahm]

Added some more in... the green mat stuff is now only present on one frag as blew off the stuff from all the frags out of the tank with a power head.

The stuff in the cup definitely looks lighter and thinner than what is was before.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm no Guru or magician but exercise common sense.

Pretty sure that's what both a Guru and magician does Ben.

 

[BigJohnny]

Although diesels protocol is complex it is thorough and I don't disagree with any of the steps, however I don't think you necessarily have to do all of that in order to solve the problem. I think it is a great plan but maybe too much for someone who has neglected their tank in the past (no offense, been there). If you can commit to it by all means do it, he is very knowledgeable and it all makes sense. If not I have a simpler method you could try initially.

I had a green cyano issue as well and some of what I thought was Dino, and I cured it by reducing my photoperiod to 5 hours of only blues, blowing off all the rocks every day and then dosing microbacter7 and kz coral snow. Took a few weeks but cleared up immediately and never came back. I continue to dose microbacter7 and coral snow occasionally, and I returned to a normal lighting schedule. This has worked for me on two separate tanks, and for many other people as well.

Just FYI, good luck.

 

[Adahm]

Ok as of this morning. Approx 9 hrs into the test. The green stuff started floating in the water about 5-15 mins into the test. The cup was in a fairly dark area on top of the tank during the night.

I'll leave it in the light and add some more h2o2

 

[Adahm]

Better pic

 

[Adahm]

Most of these you won't even see again with lights on.
More than half will hide in the sand and rock and will come out when light are almost off.
Believe it ain't that many as many hobbyist just but a few snails and hermits by the LFS and they really don't helping you.
This is the way to go and if you not happy with them I reimburse your money back, sounds like a no brainer to me.
But if they do work out for you I want you to donate just half that you spend to the CRF

BTW when I was replacing the rock I came across an interesting looking thing, reddish orange in color. At first I thought it was a molt from my fire shrimp. Then I realized it was something else. Did a bit of research and found it to be a spaghetti worm. There a few in my sand bed along with network of tubes which break off pretty easily.