MY OWN DIPPING REGIMEN, WITH IMPORTANT DISCLOSURE AND THE TRUTH ABOUT USING BAYER

[OriginalUserName]

Its good call. I think the more effectively they are rinsed the better. I honestly never liked the idea of any residual Bayer in my systems at all.

Why not? It's fun watching every single pod in your tank roll over and float around all at once. (don't ask me how I know)

 

[yellojello]

Why not? It's fun watching every single pod in your tank roll over and float around all at once. (don't ask me how I know)

Interceptor and red bugs

 

[Robthorn]

Bayer does not own the active ingredient. It is available in many other products. I have 3 gallons of a different product at home 2 friends and I are splitting. It is way stronger than Bayer. Bayer even makes a product without the other said to be harmful ingredient. You just have to buy a gallon but I found bang for the buck in another brand.

To find other products I read the label of the recommended product and then searched the internet for that ingredient.
Sucks I have to say do this at your own risk and I am not liable.

I have also experimented with potassium dipping up to 1600ppm. It kills a lot of things but not everything. It did appear to harm some of the corals. I can't remember all that died and all that did not I kind of scrapped the idea because of bacterial issues in my tank. I will likely revisit it once my tank stops dying and hopefully starts to grow again.

Regarding liability. Suggesting to someone to use a specific dip and said person unsupervised child comes in contact with the recommend chemical, you would be liable? That is sad but probrably agurable by a predatory legal team. Let’s say for example you recommend to all your customers to dip their corals but didn’t give any detailed procedures on how to protect themselves while doing it. Then customer comes in contact with the coral you shipped and was injured by the coral toxin or a marine bacteria. You may also be liable for that. Silly but that is unfortunately the environment we are in.

Back on subject
Although bayer is effective and easy on the coral the milky white color is a deal breaker for me. I guess this milky substance is the residual bayer adds to make it waterproof. I hope someday a company purchases the active ingredient in bayer to private label a coral dip without the added residual.

 

[Lazys Coral House]

Bayer does not own the active ingredient.

https://agrow.agribusinessintellige...9/Bayer-protects-European-imidacloprid-patent

 

[Robthorn]

Dang it. Why am I always wrong? Thanks for setting me straight.

Having said that I have another product that was either allowed the right to use the active ingredient or I have yet another knock off. At this point the only thing I can hope for is its ability to kill bugs and not corals.

https://agrow.agribusinessintellige...9/Bayer-protects-European-imidacloprid-patent

 

[Lazys Coral House]

Dang it. Why am I always wrong? Thanks for setting me straight.

Having said that I have another product that was either allowed the right to use the active ingredient or I have yet another knock off. At this point the only thing I can hope for is its ability to kill bugs and not corals.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015BSPO9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CahiBb33AT5PT

I found this. It is 75%, not sure what the other 25% is. It does say the inactive ingredient is inert. A lot better then the bayer retail product that is less then 1% active ingredient.

 

[Amps Reef Life]

What a great write up! Thank you for this.

 

[Battlecorals]

What a great write up! Thank you for this.

Thank you I really apprieciate it. It's a subject I take extremely seriously, and had been having the same conversation ofter for a couple years now was long over due actually

 

[Robthorn]

I have to let you know what I found when I get done swimming with all the yellow tangs. A.k.a next week. ;-) It is a liquid that is many times more potent than bayer. My bad memory tells me over 30 times.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015BSPO9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CahiBb33AT5PT

I found this. It is 75%, not sure what the other 25% is. It does say the inactive ingredient is inert. A lot better then the bayer retail product that is less then 1% active ingredient.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Regarding liability. Suggesting to someone to use a specific dip and said person unsupervised child comes in contact with the recommend chemical, you would be liable? That is sad but probrably agurable by a predatory legal team. Let’s say for example you recommend to all your customers to dip their corals but didn’t give any detailed procedures on how to protect themselves while doing it. Then customer comes in contact with the coral you shipped and was injured by the coral toxin or a marine bacteria. You may also be liable for that. Silly but that is unfortunately the environment we are in.

I don't know if I agree. It would be one thing if this stuff was basically harmless but became dangerous if used in a very specific and novel way. Pesticides like Bayer are just dangerous, full stop. Insecticides and pesticides are essentially nerve agents, not all that different from the neurotoxin used to assassinate Kim Jong-nam. Generally speaking, insecticides and pesticides like Bayer work by attacking the central nervous system. This is why things like flatworms, amphipods and bristle worms are affected by Bayer while corals are not. All the former have central nervous systems, while corals do not. This is also why pesticides and insecticides cause birth defects: they affect the central nervous system of the developing fetus.

I never ever touch Bayer without at least protective gloves and glasses, no exceptions. This is really, really dangerous stuff. A little caution on Adam's part is not unwarranted.

 

[Battlecorals]

I don't know if I agree. It would be one thing if this stuff was basically harmless but became dangerous if used in a very specific and novel way. Pesticides like Bayer are just dangerous, full stop. Insecticides and pesticides are essentially nerve agents, not all that different from the neurotoxin used to assassinate Kim Jong-nam. Generally speaking, insecticides and pesticides like Bayer work by attacking the central nervous system. This is why things like flatworms, amphipods and bristle worms are affected by Bayer while corals are not. All the former have central nervous systems, while corals do not. This is also why pesticides and insecticides cause birth defects: they affect the central nervous system of the developing fetus.

I never ever touch Bayer without at least protective gloves and glasses, no exceptions. This is really, really dangerous stuff. A little caution on Adam's part is not unwarranted.

This is kind of where my thought process has landed me as well. Between our own actual health and secondly, the our tanks, we don't really have any longitudinal data about long term effects respectively. And i am pretty much paranoid about anything that can or could get in my water, to an obsessive extent Same "bananas" mentality applies so the idea of using poison has never really been something I've warmed up to. I just saw it as the best option at the time.

 

[Pola0502ds]

Besides dipping do you use any tools like a magnifier or anything else to help?

 

[Battlecorals]

Besides dipping do you use any tools like a magnifier or anything else to help?

Yep I have one of those gem stone magnifiers you have to put up real close to your eye, and a microscope if i need a closer look as well. I also use sharp tipped wooden grilling skewers to coax out acro crabs whenever i can. And of course my trusty battlebrushes to whisk away any sort of stray material. I should have noted on the original post as well. I'm extremely anal about removing any thing that isn't actual coral, meaning rock or mounting plugs and such. Even minuet patches of dead skeleton. I'll chip, chisel and saw any trace of anything that is not 100% actual coral.

 

[Bpb]

Adam, you have talked at length about Bayer and also the polyp lab dip for flat worms. You haven’t mentioned redbugs, Black bugs, or bacterial infections. It is my understanding that bayer is completely ineffective on red bugs. Do you find this to be true? All research I’ve done points to Milbemycin Oxime (interceptor, dr g’s) being the only effective substance against them. Thoughts?

 

[Bpb]

Adam, you have talked at length about Bayer and also the polyp lab dip for flat worms. You haven’t mentioned redbugs, Black bugs, or bacterial infections. It is my understanding that bayer is completely ineffective on red bugs. Do you find this to be true? All research I’ve done points to Milbemycin Oxime (interceptor, dr g’s) being the only effective substance against them. Thoughts?

 

[Battlecorals]

Adam, you have talked at length about Bayer and also the polyp lab dip for flat worms. You haven’t mentioned redbugs, Black bugs, or bacterial infections. It is my understanding that bayer is completely ineffective on red bugs. Do you find this to be true? All research I’ve done points to Milbemycin Oxime (interceptor, dr g’s) being the only effective substance against them. Thoughts?

Indeed predatory flatworms are my primary concern, I believe that bayer is completely effective on pods actually. In fact red bugs were the reason people first started experimenting with Bayer in the first place if memory serves me well. there was along thread on RC about it back in 08-09 maybe? Was titled "Bayer for redbugs" even. Interceptor is the only known in tank treatment for RB's, But lots of dips annihilate most pods pretty easily. I cant speak for black bugs but these, and all of the "yet to be discovered" pests are ones of the reasons I double dip, and over dip essentially and go with the "scorched earth" policy.

 

[Bpb]

Good to know thanks! I’ve had to interceptor treat the display before. It’s painless and didn’t hurt anything. But it’s so hard to come by

 

[tankstudy]

Good to know thanks! I’ve had to interceptor treat the display before. It’s painless and didn’t hurt anything. But it’s so hard to come by

Dr. G's is pretty easy to get, just really really pricey.

 

[blebs]

My initial dosage is 3.5 oz bayer to about 1000ml water.

This is ~100 cc BAYER into 1000 cc H2O or 1:10 for people who do not like mixing units!

how long is your actual dip? 20 minutes?

 

[DBryan]

Adam - First of all, the only person from whom when I get acros , I might even consider not dipping or quarantining are you for I know for sure that they will be fine . Infact, I did the same thing when i received my last box from you after 48 hrs due to fedex delay . Although, I became a little anxious after 2 days and once they settled did dip them.

Now, I didn't know that you started using Reef Primer . I bought it too and tested on a smooth skin wild ice fire echinata and an aquacultutred 20K Lokani that I had for quite sometime. In that past, even with a standard dose of bayer I had issues with smooth skins if left in the solution for more than 15-20 mins.
I did 10 mins in reef primer which is double their suggested time and even then nothing happened to the smoothie.
I then dipped the last box I got from you in Reef Primer for 5 mins and they seemed fine.

I haven't boycott Bayers yet and will continue to use it but I really like how my acros aren't loosing skins If a smooth skin like echinata and lokanis do not loose tissue, I feel confident on using on other acros .

Just my 2 cents and novice experience .

Regards,
Abhishek

I have a frag of ice fire from a wild colony, i got bayer to dip it with but have not used it . I thought i would leave it in a qt tank for month or two on its own , to let any thing develop then dip . I would rather not use the bayer, would the reef primer be the best option in the first place?

Well i honestly didn't really want to call out any of the offending dips in this thread so ill tread lightly. I don't use revive on my sps though for what it's worth. I'm sure it's great dip for lps and zoanthinds but in my experience it was too harsh on sps at dosages strong enough to actually kill flatworms. Bayer can be hit or miss on flatworms in my experience as well. I have had to up the dosage a few time to what I'd consider alarming amounts, before i saw worms actually die. and times I'd often put immobile worms back in some untreated tank water to see if they'd snap out of it, and on occasion they would, scary stuff really.

However, I am still continuously experimenting with dips on the market as well, and if something better than what I am currently using comes along, I will absolutely use it. So far for flatworms specifically, the primer has proven to be the most effective. It's a potassium salt based dip, and i know there are people out there using potassium salt mixes on their own as dips with similar success. I'm just to naive to mix my own and feel confident using it, but I'm sure it would cost way less lol.

Adam i have a frag of ice fire from a wild colony. I have it in qt on its own to see if any thing develops , i was going to se bayer but it seems like reef primer is the better option . What would you suggest for ice fire , would the reef primer be enough on its own? Thanks for any suggestions .