moonshiners liquid mud

[KStatefan]

The only way to tell if its beneficial is to try it as with everything in the hobby loads of opinions and snake oils but not one photo of your tanks and reasons not to use it . So i will try on a small amount weekly as one reefer said ,My start pic just taken and product ordered Thanks

This hobby is weird that we are looking for reasons to not use something instead of expecting companies to provide valid reason why we should use it.

 

[VintageReefer]

This hobby is weird that we are looking for reasons to not use something instead of expecting companies to provide valid reason why we should use it.

This is a weird hobby indeed. All marketing. So many false claim products out there

 

[BeanAnimal]

This is a weird hobby indeed. All marketing. So many false claim products out there

It is no different than any walk of life.

There will always be prey and predators, leaders and followers. Those Informed and naive. A mix of altruism and greed. Experts and charlatans.

As with anywhere else, buyer beware.

When claims are not supported by known science and the only "proof" is loose correlation or extremely complex explanation that can't be verified by any known science, but is attested to by "followers"... run away as fast as you can.

I would like to say that it is sad that RM, FM and others appear to be headed in the snake-oil direction by taking advantage of the less informed of our hobby, but it is just par for the course I suppose.

As I said months ago in the bolus thread, I am not sure where creative marketing ends and blatant dishonesty or charlatanism begins... the line may be fuzzy but in my opinion it has been crossed.

 

[maxwell]

You seriously believe the only way to know if something might be useful is to try it?

hundreds of years of scientific studies not finding any biological role in any organism of, say, gold or beryllium or gallium (the three they specifically call out) is not convincing. But one reefer adding it and claiming a benefit is absolutely convincing?

No like i said my tank was started with miracle mud and replaced after several years and its now nearly 10 years old so if its done well it may be usefull to replace it has an alternative i saw the liquid mud and its new to the UK so asked the questions on here as RM products i think are used in the US , I try to keep things as they are so had no idea on the product or if at it is beneficial and would like the tank to run a bit longer due to age mine and the tank . I am waiting on the icp test to come back and decide as there were no concrete answers to the question . There must be new products developed with more knowledge and that includes lighting which changes every year my tank was featured here on R2R DEC 2023 so im not reckless in what i do but if it adds to the system i research things first to see if it may make a difference . hope that makes a bit of sense

 

[BeanAnimal]

Maxwell -

I think the question is what do ICP test values matter when the list of elements in the "mud" are not proven to be beneficial. You can test (for example) for Gold... but why?

The concept of "RM" has merit. Test regularly for known elements that become depleted and restore them to NSW (or whatever) levels. The issue is the promotion and sale of elements that have no scientifically shown benefit to coral, but worse are being promoted as some type of magic for health, coloration, growth, etc.

 

[saltyfins]

@Reefahholic Care to jump in?

 

[maxwell]

Maxwell -

I think the question is what do ICP test values matter when the list of elements in the "mud" are not proven to be beneficial. You can test (for example) for Gold... but why?

The concept of "RM" has merit. Test regularly for known elements that become depleted and restore them to NSW (or whatever) levels. The issue is the promotion and sale of elements that have no scientifically shown benefit to coral, but worse are being promoted as some type of magic for health, coloration, growth, etc.

i agree the elements in the liquid mud cannot be measured but i do rely on the icp tests , i do not have a great deal of knowledge on the chemistry side but asking the questions to see if i can give the tank the best chance of surviving as i will be out of action soon and able to do limited maint .If you dont ask you will never know and i appreciate all the posts either way and like i said i do whats best for the tank as its been running a long time with good growth and colours so the mud may never be used . thanks again

 

[Stang67]

do you dose it in the sump im with you once a week but i read to dose daily as the trace diminishes quickly , have you had any negative effects .thanks

Dose to sump once a week. The daily doses are another part. No negative side effects.

 

[Stang67]

What exactly does it “work well” at for you?

I'm not debating you on this thread sorry randy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not debating you on this thread sorry randy.

Ok, no problem. I didn’t expect you to identify a benefit anyway.

 

[SDchris]

Have we really come full circle to the Aqua Equalizer 25 years later?

I think Marc Weiss deserves some accolades.

 

[billyocean]

I like the RM system but no idea what the mud is all about. Didn't seem like I needed it so I'm mudless.

 

[tautog83]

Remember when we just tested calcium and alk and did a waterchange once a month.

 

[VintageReefer]

Remember when we just tested calcium and alk and did a waterchange once a month.

That sounds like a lot of work

 

[maxwell]

early morning shot with sun coming through , tank 10yrs old and started with mud and topped up some 5 yrs ago .Thats why i asked the question but now peeps saying its old school and going off onto gold why if something works i try to keep it that way like my scape as i cant see why you have a tank of 2/3rds water and small number of corals but its each to his own,thanks not the best pic but it is what it is

 

[BeanAnimal]

Does it “work” or is it just there? Regardless, what does that have to do with this, ICP or the trace elements being discussed here?

 

[Koty]

IMO, KZ is an extreme example of a company that contaminated the hobby with all their products that work, but nobody knows what's inside.
We should have a standard requiring that merchandise with undisclosed ingredients include clear proof that they work. That is not too much to ask from leading companies that spend so much on advertising. If you claim to have developed a coral health-enhancing product, for example, show us some data from the development process that proves it works. Otherwise, spend some $ to demonstrate it with proper control.
Maybe we should have a new forum, Suspected Snake Oils, where companies show reliable data to support their claims.

 

[maxwell]

Does it “work” or is it just there? Regardless, what does that have to do with this, ICP or the trace elements being discussed here?

The question i asked was if people in the US use it and any benefits , the icp test was for my benefit as im wanting to get everything as it was before i get laid up for a while not able to do anything maint wise /water changes to give it the best chance as i have used mud previously irrespective of what it does . People too quick to put a downer on things as snake oil and going on about gold with your little fishes end of for me.thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The question i asked was if people in the US use it and any benefits , the icp test was for my benefit as im wanting to get everything as it was before i get laid up for a while not able to do anything maint wise /water changes to give it the best chance as i have used mud previously irrespective of what it does . People too quick to put a downer on things as snake oil and going on about gold with your little fishes end of for me.thanks

If you want mud to replace mud you have, then I think you must look to real muds, not rare earth and gold replacement products.

Your request is perfectly reasonable. Sadly, this product is not, and especially is not a replacement for traditional muds that at least plausibly can add elements you may need, such as iron.

 

[bobnicaragua]

I’ve got 4 or 5 year old miracle mud in my sump under a thick mat of cheato. If nothing else it’s a good environment for bacteria and microorganisms.

I’m also using the moonshiners method, but not interested in dosing mud to the tank.