howaboutme
Active Member
Great! I stand corrected on the back. They may have changed it. Just be aware of getting a sump in and out. Good luck.
Monica's Nano Build: 21g ADA-Inspired NPS Tank
- Build Thread
- Thread starter monicalooze
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
Hey y'all! This didn't die. I ordered everything through my awesome lfs in Minneapolis. They're going to help customize a sump and corner overflow for the UNS. Will be able to update in December. That's when I'll be starting the build. Can't wait to show you guys the progress!
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
This is an awful picture, but she's here! I'm currently working with my LFS (Shout out to Reef Collective in Minneapolis for the help) to figure out a custom overflow plan and the sump.
Stay tuned for drawings...
Stay tuned for drawings...
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
I'm still trying to rig up an overflow solution I'm happy with...did you ever finish your minimalist design? I'm curious how it turned out!
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
Overflow Woes
Now that my beautiful tank and stand have arrived (!!!), I've been spending my days after Christmas drawing and diagramming possible overflow solutions, but I just can't find any I'm happy with. No matter what I try, the overflow is going to be an eyesore. I've tried different orientations - coast-to-coast shadow overflows, fully internal in the corner, center volcano style overflows that could be covered in rock, etc...
Admittedly, I didn't know enough about overflow designs when I hatched this plan, since my current tank is a ten gal AIO. After doing research about dursos and herbies and beanimals, my head is spinning, and it seems even less likely that I will be happy with a drilled set up. For the record, I got into the hobby for the biology, the creatures, the ocean, the beauty, and the chemistry....not plumbing.
Before the comments start...I'm not writing this to be chastised for not "doing my research." I've employed the help of a great LFS partner, but I didn't realize how big the box would have to be for a beananimal (in my head it was going to require one hole for the drain, and one for the return, lol). Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and being honest about that is important for anyone reading this to learn.
An [unorthodox] solution - canister filtration and lily pipes
After thinking about it for the last few days and doing *a lot* more reading and youtube watching, I've made the tentative decision to move forward with a lily pipe/canister filter set up. Yes, you read that right. I floated this idea really early on and initially decided against it, but I think it's worth considering for a system this size. Shout out to Mikeymikemike for all the inspiration - his tank is dope.
Hear me out:
"But canister filters can't handle the bio load or provide enough flow!"
I'm not running a massive system - it's a 21 gallon tank. Aquarists with nanos have been been successfully running canister filters forever. For this size tank, I can easily buy an oversized canister with enough flow. I would not attempt this on a bigger system.
"But they're nitrate factories and maintenance is crazy!"
Enter, Oase canister filters...Oase canisters have prefilters that that function just like filter floss or socks. You can pull out the pre-filter to clean it without opening the rest of the canister. It's just like doing your mini-maintenance on a sump. Being able to remove the pre-filter does exactly what changing filter floss or cleaning a filter sock does. It removes most of the decaying matter that turn into nitrates in the first place.
"But you won't have a skimmer!"
I was never going to run a skimmer or any super complex gear anyway, relying instead on aqua cultured live rock and a refugium for most of the filtration. I don't run a skimmer on my current 10 gal, so the concept is basically the same anyway. The water runs through the mechanical/chemical filtration trays, through the refugium, and back out again.
"But you said you wanted to run a refugium..."
I have two solutions for this. I can either load up the tank with macros, which is a possibility, OR I can plumb an algae reactor after the canister to take care of the rest of the nitrates and phosphates.
"What about ATO without a sump?"
Instead of a laser eye for the ATO, which wouldn't work in the main tank anyway because of the surface agitation, I will calculate the evaporation rate and use a dosing pump.
"But won't the evaporation rate change over the seasons?"
Sure, somewhat, but it's not something that's too difficult to keep an eye on over time...You can easily keep an eye on it and readjust.
"Where will the heater go?"
Cue the Oase canister again...it has a built in heater. A one and done pump, heater, and filtration machine greatly simplifies the set-up.
I'm sure there will be additional skepticism, but the other thing I like about this option is it keeps my tank versatile. If I decide to switch to fresh water some day, I can because I haven't drilled it. If the canister doesn't work, I can swap out the lily pipes and canister for a mame glass overflow and a sump. Hell, I can tear it down and drill the tank later if that's what I decide. Because I tinker and change my mind a lot, it makes the most sense to me to start here.
Remember...this isn't a 600 gallon system. I can go backwards pretty easily...
The equipment list:
Canister filter:
Oase biomaster thermo
If money were no object, I might consider buying the largest one to take advantage of the flow. I'd like to avoid using power heads, and that would do it. Do you agree?
**I'm considering going with the 850 non-thermo which has a max flow rate of 400 gph...probably cut in half, then adding a smaller 200watt heater to that.**
Lily Pipes w/ surface skimmer
Eheim Double Tab Quick Release Valves
Algae reactor - Tunze MAR 3181
Dosing pump for ATO - Kamoer X1 Micro pump
In conclusion, I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but I ask that if you have never used a canister filter with a reef set up before, to refrain from providing negative feedback. If you HAVE used a canister filter + lily pipes on a reef tank before, I welcome all feedback...especially your stories.
xoxo
Now that my beautiful tank and stand have arrived (!!!), I've been spending my days after Christmas drawing and diagramming possible overflow solutions, but I just can't find any I'm happy with. No matter what I try, the overflow is going to be an eyesore. I've tried different orientations - coast-to-coast shadow overflows, fully internal in the corner, center volcano style overflows that could be covered in rock, etc...
Admittedly, I didn't know enough about overflow designs when I hatched this plan, since my current tank is a ten gal AIO. After doing research about dursos and herbies and beanimals, my head is spinning, and it seems even less likely that I will be happy with a drilled set up. For the record, I got into the hobby for the biology, the creatures, the ocean, the beauty, and the chemistry....not plumbing.
Before the comments start...I'm not writing this to be chastised for not "doing my research." I've employed the help of a great LFS partner, but I didn't realize how big the box would have to be for a beananimal (in my head it was going to require one hole for the drain, and one for the return, lol). Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and being honest about that is important for anyone reading this to learn.
An [unorthodox] solution - canister filtration and lily pipes
After thinking about it for the last few days and doing *a lot* more reading and youtube watching, I've made the tentative decision to move forward with a lily pipe/canister filter set up. Yes, you read that right. I floated this idea really early on and initially decided against it, but I think it's worth considering for a system this size. Shout out to Mikeymikemike for all the inspiration - his tank is dope.
Hear me out:
"But canister filters can't handle the bio load or provide enough flow!"
I'm not running a massive system - it's a 21 gallon tank. Aquarists with nanos have been been successfully running canister filters forever. For this size tank, I can easily buy an oversized canister with enough flow. I would not attempt this on a bigger system.
"But they're nitrate factories and maintenance is crazy!"
Enter, Oase canister filters...Oase canisters have prefilters that that function just like filter floss or socks. You can pull out the pre-filter to clean it without opening the rest of the canister. It's just like doing your mini-maintenance on a sump. Being able to remove the pre-filter does exactly what changing filter floss or cleaning a filter sock does. It removes most of the decaying matter that turn into nitrates in the first place.
"But you won't have a skimmer!"
I was never going to run a skimmer or any super complex gear anyway, relying instead on aqua cultured live rock and a refugium for most of the filtration. I don't run a skimmer on my current 10 gal, so the concept is basically the same anyway. The water runs through the mechanical/chemical filtration trays, through the refugium, and back out again.
"But you said you wanted to run a refugium..."
I have two solutions for this. I can either load up the tank with macros, which is a possibility, OR I can plumb an algae reactor after the canister to take care of the rest of the nitrates and phosphates.
"What about ATO without a sump?"
Instead of a laser eye for the ATO, which wouldn't work in the main tank anyway because of the surface agitation, I will calculate the evaporation rate and use a dosing pump.
"But won't the evaporation rate change over the seasons?"
Sure, somewhat, but it's not something that's too difficult to keep an eye on over time...You can easily keep an eye on it and readjust.
"Where will the heater go?"
Cue the Oase canister again...it has a built in heater. A one and done pump, heater, and filtration machine greatly simplifies the set-up.
I'm sure there will be additional skepticism, but the other thing I like about this option is it keeps my tank versatile. If I decide to switch to fresh water some day, I can because I haven't drilled it. If the canister doesn't work, I can swap out the lily pipes and canister for a mame glass overflow and a sump. Hell, I can tear it down and drill the tank later if that's what I decide. Because I tinker and change my mind a lot, it makes the most sense to me to start here.
Remember...this isn't a 600 gallon system. I can go backwards pretty easily...
The equipment list:
Canister filter:
Oase biomaster thermo
If money were no object, I might consider buying the largest one to take advantage of the flow. I'd like to avoid using power heads, and that would do it. Do you agree?
**I'm considering going with the 850 non-thermo which has a max flow rate of 400 gph...probably cut in half, then adding a smaller 200watt heater to that.**
Lily Pipes w/ surface skimmer
Eheim Double Tab Quick Release Valves
Algae reactor - Tunze MAR 3181
Dosing pump for ATO - Kamoer X1 Micro pump
In conclusion, I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but I ask that if you have never used a canister filter with a reef set up before, to refrain from providing negative feedback. If you HAVE used a canister filter + lily pipes on a reef tank before, I welcome all feedback...especially your stories.
xoxo
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
I think you have a reasonable plan for what you are trying to accomplish. If you don't want plumbing for a sump, don't do the sump. If you want to use a canister filter, go for it. You can always take it offline if you don't like it.
I ran a magnum 350 on my first salt tank in 2005. It was a 90 gallon soft coral and LPS 'reef'. I hated the maintenance on the canister, so I quit running it and just ran powerheads and a hang-on-tank coralife skimmer.
For a 20-ish gallon tank with no sump, I would likely just use the rock, sand, and a couple powerheads. No filter. I might run a sump. An overflow like this only sticks out about an inch in the display and only requires drilling 1 hole: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/eclipse-m-overflow-box-800-gph-eshopps.html
I ran a magnum 350 on my first salt tank in 2005. It was a 90 gallon soft coral and LPS 'reef'. I hated the maintenance on the canister, so I quit running it and just ran powerheads and a hang-on-tank coralife skimmer.
For a 20-ish gallon tank with no sump, I would likely just use the rock, sand, and a couple powerheads. No filter. I might run a sump. An overflow like this only sticks out about an inch in the display and only requires drilling 1 hole: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/eclipse-m-overflow-box-800-gph-eshopps.html
GoVols
Cobb / Webb - 1989
Reef Squad Leader
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
MTRCMember
Article Contributor
Hospitality Award
R2R Research
My Tank Thread
Used a small Eheim canister filter on a cool nano reef until 2008.
Kept it clean and used Eheim's biological media.
Seems like the small Siporax media would work too.
Also did about a 20% weekly water change, but let your test kits guide your way.
Kept it clean and used Eheim's biological media.
Seems like the small Siporax media would work too.
Also did about a 20% weekly water change, but let your test kits guide your way.
V A R I A N T
Active Member
great start to the build! Looking forward to seeing it play out.
On a side note, I had the same issue you have with an overflow design. So, I went off the deep end with a false bottom and overly complex design (see my build thread).
Moral of the story: you’ll find something you like eventually, though it may take some out-of-the-box thinking…
On a side note, I had the same issue you have with an overflow design. So, I went off the deep end with a false bottom and overly complex design (see my build thread).
Moral of the story: you’ll find something you like eventually, though it may take some out-of-the-box thinking…
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
This is something I considered...I'm guessing it's not possible to have sand? I also thought about doing a "double closed loop" using a canister filter as one and an external return pump as the other, using lily pipes for flow. But then the number of lily pipes on the outside of the tank starts to get ridiculous and the maintenance doubles. Plus I don't think lily pipes can handle a ton of flow.great start to the build! Looking forward to seeing it play out.
On a side note, I had the same issue you have with an overflow design. So, I went off the deep end with a false bottom and overly complex design (see my build thread).
Moral of the story: you’ll find something you like eventually, though it may take some out-of-the-box thinking…
Is your tank up and running? I'm curious about how the false bottoms are working...
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
Oh wow. I just "leafed" through your build thread. I'm super impressed that you got all of this to work. I have some experience with automation and ardunio, but not enough to actually have fun doing that lol.great start to the build! Looking forward to seeing it play out.
On a side note, I had the same issue you have with an overflow design. So, I went off the deep end with a false bottom and overly complex design (see my build thread).
Moral of the story: you’ll find something you like eventually, though it may take some out-of-the-box thinking…
I'm stuck between the KISS method and completely over-engineered. I want the tank to look like it runs on magic...
The simplicity of creating a macro tank with mangroves that runs completely sump-less is appealing, as is the notion of running an extremely high tech system to account for every constraint I've put on myself.
I think I'm ok moving forward with the lily pipes and canister filter. The beauty is that if I go hard on the macros, I can take it offline and try the simple set up. Hell, I can even transition it to a FW planted tank someday if I do choose.
Perhaps the next constraint is to hide all equipment without drilling the tank...
minorhero
Active Member
I am new to reefs but lots of experience with freshwater. Do yourself a big favor and buy stainless steel lily pipes not the glass ones. Completely changed maintenance and makes everything look good. Those glass pipes look pretty in pictures and for about 3 days after cleaning. Then they look ok for a few days, then terrible until you clean them again.
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
Unfortunately the metal pipes won't work with saltwater because they will corrode, which is both problematic for the tank and the pipes.
My plan is to get like 4-5 sets of lily pipes, so I can change them out (with their hoses) and soak them in H2O2. Rinse. Repeat. I know I'm signing up for a higher maintenance set-up with this...
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
Yes I've been following him. Following a lot of his advice. I love his tank. 
OP
OP
monicalooze
Active Member
Have you ever seen anyone successfully hide an overflow box like that? I want this to look like a box of water running on magic...
Hidden? No. You will see it, as it will stick into your aquarium an inch or so. You could stick it on the side and barely notice it. Or you could put it on the back wall, with a black background, keeping it scrubbed free of algae, so you'd barely notice it.
If you want no visible plumbing or powerheads in the display, you really are limited.
GoVols
Cobb / Webb - 1989
Reef Squad Leader
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
MTRCMember
Article Contributor
Hospitality Award
R2R Research
My Tank Thread
Monica,
Did you choose the ATI t5 unit for your lights?
Did you choose the ATI t5 unit for your lights?
Similar threads
