Metronidazole

[Smokey the reefer]

How to use Seachem Focus:

Dosing in Food

Stir together the medicated food mix (recipe below) before feeding. Feed the fish once daily as much as they can consume in about 1 minute. Treatment periods will vary but it is recommended to treat for at least a week. This medicated food can be refrigerated or frozen between feedings.

• 1 scoop of medication of choice
• 1 scoop Focus™
• 1 tbsp food (preferably pellets or frozen food)
• A few drops of water if using a dry food

To enhance palatability use with GarlicGuard™ or Entice™.

Seachem Medications for Medicated Food Mixes

MetroPlex™: Treats internal and external parasites and bacterial infections
KanaPlex™: Treats internal and external bacterial and fungal infections
SulfaPlex™: Treats external fungal and bacterial infections
NeoPlex™: Treats bacterial infections of the intestines

Source: http://www.seachem.com/focus.php

I'm about to start using this.
A tablespoon of food probably won't last long do I just repeat this recipe daily or make a huge stock of it?
Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm about to start using this.
A tablespoon of food probably won't last long do I just repeat this recipe daily or make a huge stock of it?
Thanks

repeat with feedings but be precise with amount added to food.

 

[Smokey the reefer]

repeat with feedings but be precise with amount added to food.

Okay cool I just thinking a tablespoon would be about 2 cubes of mysis so that recipe would last me one day

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm about to start using this.
A tablespoon of food probably won't last long do I just repeat this recipe daily or make a huge stock of it?
Thanks

Those instructions are really outdated. They don’t take into consideration the medication dose at all. Most fish medications are dosed orally at mg of medication per kg of fish weight. Those instructions don’t include either of those variables. Luckily, metronidazole is one drug that can be dosed as an “in food” basis - 5000 ppm in the food fed every three days for three treatments. However metro is really bitter and fish may not feed on it.
The sticky notes at the top of the fish disease forum has two resources: a oral food calculator and my article on medicated foods.
Jay

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Id just never be able to bring myself to add chemicals to such a fragile ecosystem...I guess I'm just more of a Paul B kinda guy

 

[Lasse]

I'm about to start using this.

Why are you planning to use metronidazole??

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Smokey the reefer]

Why are you planning to use metronidazole??

Sincerely Lasse

Open

Why are you planning to use metronidazole??

Sincerely Lasse

A few fish has pinched in stomach yet ears like a pig and gas white string poop
That was recommended by humble fish.
Do you know of a better med to use?
I'm in the UK and for some stupid reason this place is a nightmare to get hold of meds
I also have prazi powder and was going to use agar to bind to the food instead of focus thanks

Why are you planning to use metronidazole??

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

IMO - metronidazole is only effective against hexamite like flagellates and anaerobic gut bacteria - not against internal "worms" that use to be active with that type of symptoms you describe - eating a lot and not gain any weight. IME - infections caused by organisms where metronidazole can be effective - do not eat and often have a swollen abdomen. IMO - metronidazole should be used with much cautions because it kill the anaerobic gut bacteria too

I think that @Jay Hemdal can give you a better tip of what to use with these type of parasites that cause the fish to eat like pigs but get thinner and thinner. Prazi may help - but I have no experiences of this product.

White poop is a general symptom - connected with a variety of circumstances and parasites - see here

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Smokey the reefer]

IMO - metronidazole is only effective against hexamite like flagellates and anaerobic gut bacteria - not against internal "worms" that use to be active with that type of symptoms you describe - eating a lot and not gain any weight. IME - infections caused by organisms where metronidazole can be effective - do not eat and often have a swollen abdomen. IMO - metronidazole should be used with much cautions because it kill the anaerobic gut bacteria too

I think that @Jay Hemdal can give you a better tip of what to use with these type of parasites that cause the fish to eat like pigs but get thinner and thinner. Prazi may help - but I have no experiences of this product.

White poop is a general symptom - connected with a variety of circumstances and parasites - see here

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks so much for the reply I appreciate that.
I do have a prazi powder called fluke solve.
Out of interest can you add prazi to food instead of putting it in the water column?.
Maybe try that first as metro could be risky.
Regards

 

[Lasse]

Thanks so much for the reply I appreciate that.
I do have a prazi powder called fluke solve.
Out of interest can you add prazi to food instead of putting it in the water column?.
Maybe try that first as metro could be risky.
Regards

Before doing anything - wait for @Jay Hemdal to answer - he is the expert here -- I have few experiences of deworming fishes. I have used metronidazole and its derivatives since 1977 with freshwater fish with African bloat, hexamitos and hole in head - that part I know - but other internal worms I have few experiences of.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Open

A few fish has pinched in stomach yet ears like a pig and gas white string poop
That was recommended by humble fish.
Do you know of a better med to use?
I'm in the UK and for some stupid reason this place is a nightmare to get hold of meds
I also have prazi powder and was going to use agar to bind to the food instead of focus thanks

What fish are showing these symptoms?
How long has it been going on?
What food are you feeding them?

Generally, praziquantel is not effective against this symptom. Prazi removes cestodes, but those do not cause mucus in feces. They do cause pinched stomachs though.

Metronidazole does reduce internal protozoans as @Lasse said. That is one cause of white mucus feces. However, there are other causes:

Excess mucus in fish feces: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.


Jay

 

[Smokey the reefer]

What fish are showing these symptoms?
How long has it been going on?
What food are you feeding them?

Generally, praziquantel is not effective against this symptom. Prazi removes cestodes, but those do not cause mucus in feces. They do cause pinched stomachs though.

Metronidazole does reduce internal protozoans as @Lasse said. That is one cause of white mucus feces. However, there are other causes:

Excess mucus in fish feces: this will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.


Jay

So I have 12 fish but it's just two that have issues.
Clown wrasse has white stringy poop and tail looks shredded(not sure if related)
Scribbled angel has pinched in stomach and both fish are eating ferociously.
Both fish would be hard to take out of my DT .
I've noticed this issue for the last month mainly with the angel and just thought he wasn't eating enough.
I quarentined all my fish with copper power and used prazi powder after copper.
Other fish with no issues are
2 clowns,purple tang,lemon angel,potters angel,2 pyramid butterfly's,fairy wrasse,scarlet hawkfish,2 anthias
My tank is 100 gallon SPS dominant tank
I feed these fish 3 cubes of frozen which consists of PE mysis garlic mysis and brine spirulina also feed small amount of pellet and nori twice per week.

Thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I have 12 fish but it's just two that have issues.
Clown wrasse has white stringy poop and tail looks shredded(not sure if related)
Scribbled angel has pinched in stomach and both fish are eating ferociously.
Both fish would be hard to take out of my DT .
I've noticed this issue for the last month mainly with the angel and just thought he wasn't eating enough.
I quarentined all my fish with copper power and used prazi powder after copper.
Other fish with no issues are
2 clowns,purple tang,lemon angel,potters angel,2 pyramid butterfly's,fairy wrasse,scarlet hawkfish,2 anthias
My tank is 100 gallon SPS dominant tank
I feed these fish 3 cubes of frozen which consists of PE mysis garlic mysis and brine spirulina also feed small amount of pellet and nori twice per week.

Thank you

The shredded tail on the wrasse may be due to tankmate aggression - you may not see it happening, but it is the usual cause for this. It isn't related to the white feces.

You should let the fish dictate how much they need to be fed. It is pretty common for people with primary reef tanks to hold back a bit too much on food in order to manage nutrients....not good for the fish.

Internal parasites do not want to kill their host, as then they die! Fish can handle a high parasite load and do fine, as long as they are getting enough to eat to offset the energy sucked up by the parasite.

Whenever I hear somebody say they feed "X" amount of food, or "X" amount, twice a week, I start to worry, yes, but what if the fish actually need "X+1" amount of food? The best way to determine the proper food level is to feed the fish more frequently, as much as they will eat in 2 minutes. Don't stop feeding if they are still going after the food aggressively. Then, once satiated, you can back off a bit.

Jay

 

[Smokey the reefer]

The shredded tail on the wrasse may be due to tankmate aggression - you may not see it happening, but it is the usual cause for this. It isn't related to the white feces.

You should let the fish dictate how much they need to be fed. It is pretty common for people with primary reef tanks to hold back a bit too much on food in order to manage nutrients....not good for the fish.

Internal parasites do not want to kill their host, as then they die! Fish can handle a high parasite load and do fine, as long as they are getting enough to eat to offset the energy sucked up by the parasite.

Whenever I hear somebody say they feed "X" amount of food, or "X" amount, twice a week, I start to worry, yes, but what if the fish actually need "X+1" amount of food? The best way to determine the proper food level is to feed the fish more frequently, as much as they will eat in 2 minutes. Don't stop feeding if they are still going after the food aggressively. Then, once satiated, you can back off a bit.

Jay

Appreciate your help it does make sense.
And introducing meds to my DT is a not something I'm keen on but would do it to save the fish.
I will take your advice on board and see how we get on.
Thanks again