Metal Halide vs. LED Thread
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nitrox36
Valuable Member
Sluf, nice math bro, Impressive. I love my AI's, but i also am loving those radions pro. So I cant wait to compare them to the AIs even though the new ones i ordred are vegas. I just picked up another new frag tank. I am going to buy a metal halide and put one of my radion pros on one frag tank and a MH on another they both will be connected to the system so that way my lil fun here will be equal. This will be fun. Ill take time lapse video of each for 12 months. (thanks to my new timer) what will this mean.......nothing, just to see what happens in both cases. Ill split the corals some from WWC, some from livestock. Im sure the first few weeks will be calibration, but once everything settles, we shall see.
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fragmatic
retired reefer
For the record. Not sure what LEDs were compared to what MH bulbs on the math done earlier, but watts are power at the meter consumed. In my case, I replaced 300 watts of MH with 54 watts of LEDs. No matter how you cut the math that is less than 19% of the power usage.
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SLUF681
Well-Known Member
In nearly every post I stated that 75 watt AI Sol units were used in the math. I also stated that I ran 2X250 watt halides and that Dapple was running 3X175 watt halides. I used AI Sol LEDs as my example because they are very popular and that's what Nitrox36 has 6 units of on his 8' tank, and what Dapple replaced with halides after increasing the intensity of his AI Sol LEDs and browning out/bleaching several corals, not to mention a wellso that died. Another reason I chose to compare AI Sol LEDs are also very controllable and are loaded with "features".
I looked at building an LED light for my tank, but I wanted them to be fully controllable. That was going to run the price up considerably so I decided to go with halides. After seeing the shimmer that LEDs have compared to halides, it sealed the deal for me. I'll sacrifice a few dollars a month for what I feel (opinion) is a more attractive look. Every LED unit I've seen with multiple colors seems to split the colors if the water surface is being aggressively disturbed, as mine is. I don't care for the rainbow effect on the sandbed that I've witnessed.
What size tank did you go from 300 watts to 54 watts on? As I explained earlier also, different tanks require more or less AI Sol LED units. My 3' 40 breeder would require 2 units, a standard 4' 120 also requires 2 units, my 5' 120 requires 4 units, while a 6' 125 needs only 3. That alone is one fact that's never used in the argument.
All I have shown with my entire argument is that metal halide vs. LEDs is take cost out of the equation. I still haven't heard anybody say that their LEDs have lasted for 10 years yet. I keep seeing 10 years as the argument for longevity. Nobody knows what the true lifespan of LEDs is yet. AI is only willing to guarantee theirs for 1 year. The LED moonlights on my old Coralife PC fixture didn't last for 10 years. Corrosion from a salty environment was their downfall. We CAN agree that we all have a corrosive salty environment in common, right? Halides are far cheaper on the front end, and equally cheaper to replace.
I looked at building an LED light for my tank, but I wanted them to be fully controllable. That was going to run the price up considerably so I decided to go with halides. After seeing the shimmer that LEDs have compared to halides, it sealed the deal for me. I'll sacrifice a few dollars a month for what I feel (opinion) is a more attractive look. Every LED unit I've seen with multiple colors seems to split the colors if the water surface is being aggressively disturbed, as mine is. I don't care for the rainbow effect on the sandbed that I've witnessed.
What size tank did you go from 300 watts to 54 watts on? As I explained earlier also, different tanks require more or less AI Sol LED units. My 3' 40 breeder would require 2 units, a standard 4' 120 also requires 2 units, my 5' 120 requires 4 units, while a 6' 125 needs only 3. That alone is one fact that's never used in the argument.
All I have shown with my entire argument is that metal halide vs. LEDs is take cost out of the equation. I still haven't heard anybody say that their LEDs have lasted for 10 years yet. I keep seeing 10 years as the argument for longevity. Nobody knows what the true lifespan of LEDs is yet. AI is only willing to guarantee theirs for 1 year. The LED moonlights on my old Coralife PC fixture didn't last for 10 years. Corrosion from a salty environment was their downfall. We CAN agree that we all have a corrosive salty environment in common, right? Halides are far cheaper on the front end, and equally cheaper to replace.
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SLUF681
Well-Known Member
Never mind about what size tank you're running. After I opened my eyes I see you have a 90 gallon. Can you post a pic? I assume you're running something like 2 heat sinks with 9 3 watt bulbs each?
gmoney243
2500 Club Member
I do agree. Dislike the color seperation i see in a lot if setups. Buy seems i only see this in cree led diy setups. Ive even seen factory unit using multi colors with bridgelux leds and they dont have that effect either. I can tune my leds to mimic very close the color if 14-20k MH. The shimmer is different with leds tho much smaller ripples. If ur in nash area feel free ti come check mine out.
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SLUF681
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How many watts are you running Mike? I'm just curious because fragmatic is only running 54 watts on a 90 gallon, which is the least I've ever heard of on a tank that size. Your tank is roughly the same height correct? Just 2 feet longer and 6 inches deeper?
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SLUF681
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Ok. I thought 54 watts on a 90 seemed a little low. Maybe I misunderstood and he's running two 54 watt units? That would seem to be closer to what everyone else runs. From what I've seen you need about 1 watt of LED for every 3 watts of halide.
Yours follows that roughly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 180 can be lit with three 250 watt halides, right?
gmoney243
2500 Club Member
Yea should be 3 250w + 4 36" t5 is what id say most would run on it and what i would also if i used MH. But ive never run MH just seen others setups but most MH people around here have gone led or led+t5
Still need to make canopy lol
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SLUF681
Well-Known Member
Looks good. I notice you don't see that "glare" on your rocks that is common with LEDs in pictures. I wonder if that's because your LEDs are spread out and not concentrated in a small area?
gmoney243
2500 Club Member
Heres with leds only about a 14k look. Middle looks a little whiter because more whites fell in that area when building i was tired when i built it lol.
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fragmatic
retired reefer
No, I am running one AquaticLife 54 x 1 watt, 36" expandable, alone. It is true many run about twice that, so did I, but at half power. I keep hearing those running more LEDs say that they are running them at low power settings. So in this unit I cut to the chase and am running a set that don't even have any adjustment and are 54 watts of blues, whites and purples.
Also, I was not making any kind of argument, I was simply stating what I am running. Running my set up, I am using less than 19% of the power I was when I ran MH. I see no reason for anyone to take any offense in this statement.
The LED set up I had on this tank earlier was at exactly three times the wattage. I was running 54 3 watt LEDs, and I could hardly turn them on. I took parts of that set and completely reworked them to build a lamp for my frag tank. Now, I need to go back into it and remove about 1/3 of the LEDs.
As far as LEDs lasting how long. There is plenty of actual hard proof in your homes, look around and you will find several LEDs that have lasted 10 to 15 years. And there has been no shift in their power usage nor projected light wave frequencies. These would be read outs on clocks, ovens, dish washers, etc. My AqulticLife LEDs are inside out of the salt environment. Let's say they only last 5 years, over that time I would have had to replace my three MH bulbs five times. This is 15 MH bulbs and my AquaticLife LEDs were $400. Also, there was the summer heat production of the MH units here in north Texas. They made it difficult to keep my man cave and my display tank cool and caused considerable more work for my AC unit. They effected the AC of the whole house, and required additional fans on the tank for evap cooling. This moisture (wet bulb) multiples the BTU load on the AC unit. Not only does it then have to remove the BTUs added by the MH bulbs it has to remove the added moisture via condensation at the A-coil. AC load is another calculation to be added in for real life numbers. I did the math when it was time to replace my MH bulbs, it was a no brainer for me. In my case the winter warmth that would be provided by the MH bulbs has little value as we heat mostly by wood and I usually get it for free.
I am not arguing LEDs vs MH, I am just putting some hard facts on the table from my actual reality.
If someone finds it necessary to argue about any of these facts, I am not interested in that conversation. There is no argument here, I simply stated what I did and why. This is what I did, and it is what it is.
I firmly believe as LED technology continues to develop at the current accelerated rate this whole conversation will soon be moot, and MH bulbs will eventually become obsolete, and/or perhaps no longer allowed to be manufactured.
It is my opinion, if you are still running MH and like them that is good, you will gain by the wait as LEDs continue to improve. It is also my opinion they will steadily improve until they reach the point in which you too will be converted.
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OurReef
Active Member
Wow, so when I decide to switch to LEDs I'm going to need roughly 550w of LEDs to replace my mh/t5 set up?
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SLUF681
Well-Known Member
Am I to assume we're still talking about your 90 gallon tank, and your 90 gallon only? "Let's say they only last 5 years, over that time I would have had to replace my three MH bulbs five times. This is 15 MH bulbs and my AquaticLife LEDs were $400."Am I understanding this correctly, that you ran 300 watts of halides (stated earlier) which would be three 100 watt halides?
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SLUF681
Well-Known Member
What size tank? The only thing I KNOW you'll need when you change over is a thick wallet.
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SLUF681
Well-Known Member
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi...atrixPages&utm_medium=cse&utm_content=AK01266
You realize that we were talking about LED lights that were capable of growing coral, correct? I believe your 90 gallon falls into the 24" range. Do you have a reef tank or FOWLR? If you have a reef tank you need to immediately spend another $400, and possibly $800.
OurReef
Active Member
180, but I run 1640w of light right now.
fragmatic
retired reefer
It is a reef and NO I do not need to spend more on lights. If I decide I need more ( I seriously doubt it) I have LEDs in a drawer ready to build whatever I desire. BTW, my 20 long frag tank has 84 watts of LED, and I can't turn them on full. That is where I plan to do the serious coral growth.
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