Metal Halide vs. LED Thread

fragmatic · Jan 14, 2013

:angel: I replaced my MH with LEDs and miss the added heat in the summer, the bulb replacements, and the electric bill bump. My corals seem quite happy with the deal too. It is a no brainer for me.

I won't have to replace my LEDs for about 10 to 11 years. This makes them far less expensive that MH, before you even start to calculate in the power usage.

On my 90 I am consuming a whooping 54 watts.

Your mileage may vary.

:wink:

Rob.D · Jan 15, 2013

Get this thread back on topic please.

Pappy · Jan 15, 2013

Rob.D said:
Get this thread back on topic please.

Not sure what this means BUT let's just end it with both are equally effective with regards to growth, color, etc...to each his/her own with lighting.

Bushmaster · Jan 15, 2013

Well said sir. Different folks different strokes.

SLUF681 · Jan 15, 2013

My tank is a Perfecto 5' 120. Given the truly effective coverage of AI Sol LEDs being about 24"X24", I would need 4 units over my tank due to the center brace. Dapple has a standard 6' 125 which has 2 center braces. Ironically, I would need 1 more unit than he needs to light my tank. That alone disproves the "LED is cheaper" theory. I have already proven that my tank is sufficiently lit with two 250 watt 20,000k bulbs. I'll supply the math to support my statement.

As of 12/1/2012 the electricity rates for Knoxville Utilities Board customers was 9.432 cents per kWh.
Assume the lights are on for 10 hours each day, 365 days per year.
A kWh is 1000 watts for a time period of 1 hr.
2X250 watt bulbs = 500 watts per hour
500 watts for 10 hours is 5000 watts, or 5 kWh.
5 kWh @ $.09432 = $.4716 per day, or $172.13 per year. That's $14.34 per month on your bill.
Assuming you replace the bulbs every 9 months, that's $26.66 (Two Plusrite brand 20,000k 250 watt single ended bulbs at $13.33 each)
Over a 10 year period (that seems to be the consensus on how long LEDs last) I will change bulbs 13.33 times, for a grand total of $355.38.
Power consumption over a 10 year period will be $1721.30.

$1721.30 + $355.38 = $2076.68

For the AI Sol LEDs:
4X75 watts = 300 watts per hour.
300 watts @ 10 hours = 3000 watts per day, or 3 kWh.
3 kWh @ $.09432 = $.28296 per day, or $103.28 per year. That's $8.61 on your monthly bill.
4 AI Sol units @ $400 each, plus $70 for the controller = $1670
Power consumption over a 10 year period is $1032.80

$1032.80 + $1670 = $2702.80

LEDs would cost me an additional $626.12 over a 10 year period.

Rob.D · Jan 15, 2013

SLUF681 said:
My tank is a Perfecto 5' 120. Given the truly effective coverage of AI Sol LEDs being about 24"X24", I would need 4 units over my tank due to the center brace. Dapple has a standard 6' 125 which has 2 center braces. Ironically, I would need 1 more unit than he needs to light my tank. That alone disproves the "LED is cheaper" theory. I have already proven that my tank is sufficiently lit with two 250 watt 20,000k bulbs. I'll supply the math to support my statement.

As of 12/1/2012 the electricity rates for Knoxville Utilities Board customers was 9.432 cents per kWh.
Assume the lights are on for 10 hours each day, 365 days per year.
A kWh is 1000 watts for a time period of 1 hr.
2X250 watt bulbs = 500 watts per hour
500 watts for 10 hours is 5000 watts, or 5 kWh.
5 kWh @ $.09432 = $.4716 per day, or $172.13 per year. That's $14.34 per month on your bill.
Assuming you replace the bulbs every 9 months, that's $26.66 (Two Plusrite brand 20,000k 250 watt single ended bulbs at $13.33 each)
Over a 10 year period (that seems to be the consensus on how long LEDs last) I will change bulbs 13.33 times, for a grand total of $355.38.
Power consumption over a 10 year period will be $1721.30.

$1721.30 + $355.38 = $2076.68

For the AI Sol LEDs:
4X75 watts = 300 watts per hour.
300 watts @ 10 hours = 3000 watts per day, or 3 kWh.
3 kWh @ $.09432 = $.28296 per day, or $103.28 per year. That's $8.61 on your monthly bill.
4 AI Sol units @ $400 each, plus $70 for the controller = $1670
Power consumption over a 10 year period is $1032.80

$1032.80 + $1670 = $2702.80

LEDs would cost me an additional $626.12 over a 10 year period.

Nice math, I too did the same math around tax time last year. That's why I still have MH/T5 lighting. And my wife threatend my life if I tried to spend that kind of cash on my tank!

SLUF681 · Jan 15, 2013

For Dapple's tank...
The most current electricity price I could find for Clinton Utilities Board was 7/1/2012 @ $.11088 per kWh.
3X175 watt 20,000k Plusrite single ended bulbs.
3X175 = 525 watts per hour for 10 hours = 5250 watts per day, or 5.25 kWh per day.
5.25 kWh @ $.11088 = $.58212 per day, or $212.47 per year. That's $17.71 on his monthly bill.
Changing all 3 bulbs ($13.33X3=$39.99) every 9 months over a 10 year period would be $533.07
Power consumption over a 10 year period will be $2124.70.
$2124.70 + $533.07 = $2657.77

Now for the AI Sol LEDs:
3X75 watt units is 225 watts per hour,for 10 hours is 2250 watts or 2.25 kWh.
2.25 kWh per day @ $.11088 per kWh is $.24948 per day, or $91.06 per year. That's $7.59 per month.
Power consumption over a 10 year period will be $910.60.
3 AI Sol LED units @ $400 each and a controller @ $70 = $1270
$910.60 + $1270 = $2180.60

As you can see, in Dapple's case, the LEDs are in fact $477.17 cheaper over a 10 year period.

SLUF681 · Jan 15, 2013

On top of the cost of startup being higher with LEDs, the warranty on AI Sol LEDs is one year. I can replace a ballast for my halides for roughly $40 each, and bulbs for $13.33 each. If after 1 year, the AI Sol LEDs go bad, you're looking at a $400 replacement cost. The proven cost between LEDs and halides on my tank is mathematically proven. I'm interested to know if anyone has any AI Sol LEDs that have been running for 10 years vs how many have failed.

Dapple · Jan 15, 2013

Uh, yeah ! What he said.

gmoney243 · Jan 15, 2013

Maybe thats the max watts if the led units but i dont think anyne is running them 100% on all channels. So they would be using even less power. Also ive never used MH but ive heard many people say how much their monthly bill has dropped from the switch and its way way more than $10/month to run MH. And a lot of people are running name brand bulbs with much higher cost. I agree the led fixtures are very high for most and might not be worth it. But you have also got to take into consideration DIY leds and how easy it is ti change a bulb and how cheap kits are these days.

Im not sayng leds are better but i think that math in real world doesnt work out the same. And if i alrdy had MH and was using $13 bulbs and they worked good i probly wouldn't switch either. But for most people starting up a new reef tank LEDs is probably the best option long term. I wouldnt trade my led+t5 combo even for free MH setup lol but i do agree MH are awsome on the tanks i see them on.

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robby2782 · Jan 16, 2013

Very impressive! I'd like to add that a lot of people including myself stagger their halides to increase photoperiod with running a fixtures at once. Plus a lot of people run their bulbs only 7-8 hours a day.

robby2782 · Jan 16, 2013

SLUF681 said:
I do think know what bulbs you're using Robby, but I run Plusrite 250 watt 20,000k single ended bulbs. They look more like a 14,000k, which is fine with me. I'm not running any supplemental lighting and have AWESOME color and EXCELLENT growth. Bulbs are $13.33 each. 400 watt bulbs are $11 and some change. Excellent reviews, cheap price.

Are these HQI's? Who sells them?

Tone · Jan 16, 2013

robby2782 said:
Are these HQI's? Who sells them?

Lol, I remember seeing the link in there before must of got adjusted...

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SLUF681 · Jan 16, 2013

gmoney243 said:
Maybe thats the max watts if the led units but i dont think anyne is running them 100% on all channels. So they would be using even less power. Also ive never used MH but ive heard many people say how much their monthly bill has dropped from the switch and its way way more than $10/month to run MH. And a lot of people are running name brand bulbs with much higher cost. I agree the led fixtures are very high for most and might not be worth it. But you have also got to take into consideration DIY leds and how easy it is ti change a bulb and how cheap kits are these days.

Im not sayng leds are better but i think that math in real world doesnt work out the same. And if i alrdy had MH and was using $13 bulbs and they worked good i probly wouldn't switch either. But for most people starting up a new reef tank LEDs is probably the best option long term. I wouldnt trade my led+t5 combo even for free MH setup lol but i do agree MH are awsome on the tanks i see them on.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2

I actually stated that I pay $14.34/month, and that Dapple will pay $17.71/month. However, I run a single 250 watt halide on my 40 breeder reef that only costs me $7.17/month. I think that my math is very sound, and well enough explained, to support my statement. My math on the subject is 100% "Real World" If you have found an error in my mathematics or my formula for figuring power consumption (I helped figure the metal halide vs compact fluorescent lighting costs at my factory) then I simply ask you to support that. As far as what other people pay for "name brand" bulbs, I am not responsible for other people's overspending. If you would like me to go further into depth with any part of my statements, I will be happy to do so.

For instance: You said people generally don't run there LEDs at full power. Let's just cut the power consumption on my tank for LEDs by half. Instead of $1032.80 per year, we go to $516.40. When combined with the initial cost of AI Sol LEDs, the total goes from $2702.80 to $2186.40. LEDs still cost $109.72 more than my halides.

At this point, we still have to assume that the AI Sol LEDs are going good to last 10 years.

robby2782 · Jan 16, 2013

I think your point stomps mine. Lol

Do you have pics of your bulbs? I'm very interested to know more about them.

SLUF681 · Jan 16, 2013

I order them from 1000bulbsDOTcom. They're single ended (E39 Mogul base), not HQI. I don't think they have HQI. I will say this: I use the 20,000k, but they burn a little "whiter" than a true 20,000k bulb. As far as a pic Robby, I'll try to post one real quick.