Lanthanum Chloride may kill ick , velvet and lymphocystis!!!

[Juan Andrés Botero R]

May be, but not sure?? Need help to confirm it!

An observation on my aquarium , I had a yellow tang with lymphocystis, and I notice the some white spots like ick on my blue tang, they were visiting the lysmata shrimps for a clean up very frequently.

After dealing with an ick, velvet or what ever that killed all my fish, but a sand goby that I try to kill, after a quarantine of ten weeks (with the goby that I could not kill), I decided to ignore it and proceed with a phosphate reduction treatment with Lanthanum Chloride. Corals are the priority!.

So, I diluted 17 drops of lanthanum chloride (Phosphate RX) on half of liter of RO water and dose it to the intake of the skimmer at one drop or less per second to lower 0.1 ppm the phosphate on a 545 liter (144 Gal) reef tank., also placed the 10 micron nylon filter socks, I did it during 10 days, the goal was to lower the phosphates 1.0 ppm.

While doing it, I notice that the white spots on the blue tang went away at the second day, and at the end of the treatment I notice that the lymphocystis on yellow tang went away, so I decided to read more about Lanthanum chloride, and I found that it has some medical properties in the treatment of Cancer, and some effects on the cellular membrane...(may be can have some effects the ick, velvet and lymphocystis membrane?)

Inhibitory effect of lanthanum chloride on migration and invasion of cervical cancer cells
Tumor metastasis remains the main reason for treatment failure and death of patients with cervical cancer. The present study was designed to explore t…

www.sciencedirect.com
Its been more than 5 months with no symptoms of ick, velvet or lymphocystis, because i now have a healthy aquarium, I can not make more tests to prove it!!!!

So, I decided to post this observation to encourage some one to continue with the test, with one condition!, please publish the results on this blog tread . Thanks!

 

[Flippers4pups]

@Humblefish

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

May be, but not sure?? Need help to confirm it!

An observation on my aquarium , I had a yellow tang with lymphocystis, and I notice the some white spots like ick on my blue tang, they were visiting the lysmata shrimps for a clean up very frequently.

After dealing with an ick, velvet or what ever that killed all my fish, but a sand goby that I try to kill, after a quarantine of ten weeks (with the goby that I could not kill), I decided to ignore it and proceed with a phosphate reduction treatment with Lanthanum Chloride. Corals are the priority!.

So, I diluted 17 drops of lanthanum chloride (Phosphate RX) on half of liter of RO water and dose it to the intake of the skimmer at one drop or less per second to lower 0.1 ppm the phosphate on a 545 liter (144 Gal) reef tank., also placed the 10 micron nylon filter socks, I did it during 10 days, the goal was to lower the phosphates 1.0 ppm.

While doing it, I notice that the white spots on the blue tang went away at the second day, and at the end of the treatment I notice that the lymphocystis on yellow tang went away, so I decided to read more about Lanthanum chloride, and I found that it has some medical properties in the treatment of Cancer, and some effects on the cellular membrane...(may be can have some effects the ick, velvet and lymphocystis membrane?)

Inhibitory effect of lanthanum chloride on migration and invasion of cervical cancer cells
Tumor metastasis remains the main reason for treatment failure and death of patients with cervical cancer. The present study was designed to explore t…

www.sciencedirect.com
Its been more than 5 months with no symptoms of ick, velvet or lymphocystis, because i now have a healthy aquarium, I can not make more tests to prove it!!!!

So, I decided to post this observation to encourage some one to continue with the test, with one condition!, please publish the results on this blog tread . Thanks!

Very interesting observation! I love the fact that you've found anecdotal literature to support the observation.

 

[Dine]

@Humblefish

I love that this is the first reply to nearly every disease post! Haha

 

[tehmadreefer]

I use LC to control PO4, I dont and never have qt'd. I dont get ich outbreaks. Soo idk

@HotRocks

 

[Flippers4pups]

I love that this is the first reply to nearly every disease post! Haha

He's the man on these matters. Knows more than me.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I use LC to control PO4, I dont and never have qt'd. I dont get ich outbreaks. Soo idk

@HotRocks

I have used LaCl3 in the past as well. The one minor ick outbreak I had while I was dosing LaCl3 disappeared in a hurry. Hmmmm...

 

[Reefahholic]

I've been using LaCI3 for a long time. SeaKlear commercial, Phosphate RX, and a few others. I have not heard this before and have seen other reefers dosing it with tanks full of ICH. Didn't really want to point that out to them. Lol. Would be interesting if this did have an effect on some of these. I really doubt it though. Maybe we can push @4FordFamily to treat a batch of fish with it.

 

[HotRocks]

I've been using LaCI3 for a long time. SeaKlear commercial, Phosphate RX, and a few others. I have not heard this before and have seen other reefers dosing it with tanks full of ICH. Didn't really want to point that out to them. Lol. Would be interesting if this did have an effect on some of these. I really doubt it though. Maybe we can push @4FordFamily to treat a batch of fish with it.

We’d have to get him to treat a batch of fish at all first haha!

I use LC to control PO4, I dont and never have qt'd. I dont get ich outbreaks. Soo idk

@HotRocks

Im skeptical on this one, but I am not familiar and have never used it. Let’s see what humblefish says! I don’t get ich outbreaks either

 

[Gareth elliott]

Found an single study that it inhibits the production of thioredoxin reductase. Thus could expose a specimen to more oxidative stress? The subject specimen was Giardia. Showed no reduction in GSH the primary defense cells use for removing free radicals.
were you also using hydrogen peroxide during the lanthanum chloride treatment?
Also IF this was the mode of action, could weaken the fish to effects of oxidative stress of its own.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I would love for this to be true, however it may just be a coincidence. Crypto is a parasite while lymphocytes is a viral infection. I am hardpressed to believe lanthanum chloride cured both. If it is so potent then I would imagine we would notice significant changes in the biodiversity of our reef tanks.

 

[tehmadreefer]

I notice significant changes

I would love for this to be true, however it may just be a coincidence. Crypto is a parasite while lymphocytes is a viral infection. I am hardpressed to believe lanthanum chloride cured both. If it is so potent then I would imagine we would notice significant changes in the biodiversity of our reef tanks.
[/QUOTE
It does, in that if dosed too much snails do die. It is a very potent product and can easily wipe out PO4 completely even with small doses.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Interesting idea. I'm not smart enough to know, but I definitely want to follow this discussion.

 

[Juan Andrés Botero R]

Found an single study that it inhibits the production of thioredoxin reductase. Thus could expose a specimen to more oxidative stress? The subject specimen was Giardia. Showed no reduction in GSH the primary defense cells use for removing free radicals.
were you also using hydrogen peroxide during the lanthanum chloride treatment?
Also IF this was the mode of action, could weaken the fish to effects of oxidative stress of its own.

No, I was not using hydrogen peroxide, but I was using 37 Watts UV!, The dose of the LC was placed at night with a very slow drop at the skimmer intake to skim it out, also placed a 10 micron Nylon sock. as I read Tangs are very sensitive to LC, so I did a slow treatment to drop 1.0 ppm of Phosphate at 0.1 ppm / day. (17 drops of Phosphate Rx diluted on half liter of RO water) is a 144 Gal Reef Tank.

 

[tehmadreefer]

I dose mine directly in the overflow or sump. I have a powder blue and it isnt ever effected.

 

[NeverlosT]

LaCL forms flocculate with phosphate, I wonder if it may form flocculate with the Tomites (free floating) stage of ich, essentially disrupting the lifecycle of the organism?

 

[Juan Andrés Botero R]

LaCL forms flocculate with phosphate, I wonder if it may form flocculate with the Tomites (free floating) stage of ich, essentially disrupting the lifecycle of the organism?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6090291/ -> "Recently, it has been reported that lanthanum complexes were effective candidate drugs in the treatment of malignant tumors (5). For instance, lanthanum complex has demonstrated considerable cytotoxicity on human cervical carcinoma cells in vitro (6,7). Lanthanum chloride (LaCl3) also significantly inhibited the growth and induced the apoptosis of leukemia cell lines, HL-60 and NB4 (8). In addition, lanthanum has been involved in the growth arrest of human gastric cancer cells (9). All these observations suggested that lanthanum, a rare earth element, has the capacity to promote anti-tumor regulation (10). "

https://www.americanelements.com/lanthanum-chloride-anhydrous-10099-58-8 -> " They can form either inorganic or organic compounds. Lanthanum Chloride's ability to bind with phosphates in water creates numerous uses in water treatment. Lanthanum is used in cracking catalysts, advanced ceramics and in green phosphors. Lanthanide zirconates and lanthanum strontium manganites are used for their catalytic and conductivity properties. Lanthanum's ability to bind with phosphates in water creates uses in water treatment. "

 

[Juan Andrés Botero R]

Found an single study that it inhibits the production of thioredoxin reductase. Thus could expose a specimen to more oxidative stress? The subject specimen was Giardia. Showed no reduction in GSH the primary defense cells use for removing free radicals.
were you also using hydrogen peroxide during the lanthanum chloride treatment?
Also IF this was the mode of action, could weaken the fish to effects of oxidative stress of its own.

Apocynin and Nox2 regulate NF-κB by modifying thioredoxin-1 redox-state - Scientific Reports

The reactive-oxygen-species-(ROS)-generating-enzyme Nox2 is essential for leukocyte anti-microbial activity. However its role in cellular redox homeostasis and, consequently, in modulating intracellular signaling pathways remains unclear. Herein, we show Nox2 activation favors thioredoxin-1...

www.nature.com

Researchers Describe Novel Strategy for Combating Sepsis

In an article published in October in the journal Scientific Reports, Brazilian researchers describe a novel strategy to combat inflammation and reduce mortality among patients with sepsis based on…

scienceandtechnologyresearchnews.com

[PDF] Chelation of Lanthanum (La3+) by Various Thiols - an in vitro Study | Semantic Scholar

Thiols are organosulfur compounds that contain carbon-bonded sulfhydryl (R-SH) group, which is a strong reducing agent and forms a fairly stable chelator-metal complex, which results in excretion and reduction of toxic effects of heavy metals. Thiols are organosulfur compounds that contain...

www.semanticscholar.org

 

[Michael Gray]

im definitely following

 

[Humblefish]

I can't find any studies where Lanthanum Chloride was used to treat the fish diseases listed in the title of this thread. So, anyone wishing to experiment with this would be starting from scratch.