Just a reminder: Budget saltwater tanks don't exist

[William Chiavetta]

Black box from amazon work just fine.

I don't consider black box mid grade

 

[William Chiavetta]

She kept everything. Flint Michigan would disagree with your assertion that well water is saver than tap. In my area coooer was mined heavily, I’d no more use well water in a fish tank than step in a fire ant bed on purpose. There are places where tap water has very low TDS and is likely okay with minimal conditioning.

We all agree that it’s an expensive hobby but with patience and some luck most people could set something up with a reasonable budget.

What I was trying to get across is usually the less money you spend especially if you're new it really reflects

 

[William Chiavetta]

How so? The rock provides all of the biological filtration you need. Cleanup crew takes care of waste. Water change to keep some levels down and/or replace some elements.

I don't feel like the water parameters are too stable with that setup

 

[William Chiavetta]

As has been mentioned, budget tanks are possible either by doing a ton of research to figure out what exactly will be needed and what cheap equipment will work to replace the typically very expensive stuff, or by looking for good deals on used equipment (for examples, $50 lights have already been mentioned; I've legitimately seen a 500 gallon tank given away free before, and a couple other smaller ones in the 100-300 gallon range; it's not common, but it happens every now and then - I pretty regularly see 10-40 gallon tanks offered free or super cheap though).

Anyway, to address the points above - well water and tap water both have incredibly variable quality: well and tap water are totally fine and safe for some people in some locations, but would literally kill everything in a tank in other places.

I've seen a few well water reports at this point, but I've mostly seen city reports on tap water - they basically sample a few houses from various areas around the city and test for a handful of specific things (such as copper); each house has different water quality, sometimes extremely different, so they test for averages and for any houses exceeding the limit for certain things (better reports will list the range found by the tests). That said, since the testing is meant to test the water's safety for human use/consumption, some of the tests (such as the copper tests) aren't typically sensitive enough to be useful for telling if the water is safe for our aquariums or not - so they could list zero or negligible amounts of something when in reality there's enough of it there to cause issues in our tanks.

Now, with regards to the filtration, as mentioned, if done properly, a tank can run with strictly biofiltration provided by rocks/sand, algae, and/or things like cryptic sponges - a lot of people actually aim for that (typically using a refugium/cryptic refugium, though). IIRC, you can find a few examples in the thread below:

Minimalist Reefer

I'd like to see R2R start a 'Minimalist Reefer' forum for those of us who want to keep it simple and maybe be a bit 'old school' in the way we do things. I'm a member of the Reef Squad here and in talking with a few other Reef Squad members, I've found they have some very similar feelings. So...

www.reef2reef.com

I guess people have proved me wrong I should do more research in the future

 

[SpyC]

I don't feel like the water parameters are too stable with that setup

I don't feel a lot of things, but that doesn't make it factual. There are plently of successful minimal tanks.

 

[SpyC]

I don't consider black box mid grade

What do you consider them?

 

[William Chiavetta]

I don't feel a lot of things, but that doesn't make it factual. There are plently of successful minimal tanks.

I think that is putting the living animals at risk though?

 

[William Chiavetta]

What do you consider them?

higher

 

[SpyC]

I think that is putting the living animals at risk though?

How? Can you go into detail and explain your thought process? What is it that these tanks lack? What makes these tanks unfut for living animals and putting them at risk?

 

[danimal1211]

Success in this hobby is not so much based on the equipment used (what is absolutely necessary is simply something to create gas exchange and some way of stabilizing temperature). If keeping photosynthetic species then a source of light adequate to provide those needs. Success is most dependent on the skills of the aquarist who provides a stable environment. For instance @brandon429 has kept a 1 gallon pico for 20 years with only an airstone, heater and light. Weekly 100% water changes.
You can look back at all the old TOTM threads on RC and 100% of the equipment used on those tanks would be considered outdated by todays standards yet a skilled aquarist could make them perfectly viable today.

 

[NanoNana]

I don't feel like the water parameters are too stable with that setup

You’re incorrect. Bio filtration that mimics the ocean can be and is achieved in tanks. There’s no media reactor or dosing pump in natural bodies of water. Rock and sand and movement of water takes care of filtration along with the right bacteria and livestock. Hitting that balance takes a lot of hard work. They aren’t set it and forget it tanks.

 

[William Chiavetta]

You’re incorrect. Bio filtration that mimics the ocean can be and is achieved in tanks. There’s no media reactor or dosing pump in natural bodies of water. Rock and sand and movement of water takes care of filtration along with the right bacteria and livestock. Hitting that balance takes a lot of hard work. They aren’t set it and forget it tanks.

I feel like I have a lot more work and research to do. next time I post I will make sure to do my research

 

[NanoNana]

I feel like I have a lot more work and research to do. next time I post I will make sure to do my research

The biggest part of it is patience. Being willing to wait until you find equipment in your budget and buying it a piece at a time, coral auctions or sales, people rehoming fish. One of the guys I know with a minimal tank set it up that way from day one. I’m not kidding when I say he had one fish for two years. He started with corals and filter feeders like clams and feather dusters. The other friend did it quite by accident in 1989 when he lost power for 3 weeks after hurricane Hugo. I won’t go into what we had to do to move the tank to the sunroom but it was the best hope for anything surviving. He lost some SPS but softies and every fish survived. Three weeks no power, no water change people were trucking drinking water in for town residents there was no way to get enough to make saltwater. Afterwards, he set his lights back up and a thermometer for winter and just runs it like that now. The tank was 15 years old at the time though.

 

[William Chiavetta]

The biggest part of it is patience. Being willing to wait until you find equipment in your budget and buying it a piece at a time, coral auctions or sales, people rehoming fish. One of the guys I know with a minimal tank set it up that way from day one. I’m not kidding when I say he had one fish for two years. He started with corals and filter feeders like clams and feather dusters. The other friend did it quite by accident in 1989 when he lost power for 3 weeks after hurricane Hugo. I won’t go into what we had to do to move the tank to the sunroom but it was the best hope for anything surviving. He lost some SPS but softies and every fish survived. Three weeks no power, no water change people were trucking drinking water in for town residents there was no way to get enough to make saltwater. Afterwards, he set his lights back up and a thermometer for winter and just runs it like that now. The tank was 15 years old at the time though.

wow thats impressive

 

[galabis87]

Set up a 125 for less than a thousand. Tank, stand lights all second hand. New sand and filters, and skimmer. A year and a half no issues. My 75 acrylic frag low boy less than $300 used tank diy stand new return pump. In the years I've reefing it's been my experience that it all depends on what you let yourself be talked into buying.
Can you reef on a budget? Absolutely!!
I don't have unlimited money but I have 4 reef tanks (down from 12 the electric bill was getting out of hand)running. Yes there are some corals I will never afford but I'm unwilling to throw hundreds of dollars at a small coral that could die despite everything being right. All my tanks are and were used always making sure they were not used for reptiles, rodents,turtles or birds.

 

[William Chiavetta]

Set up a 125 for less than a thousand. Tank, stand lights all second hand. New sand and filters, and skimmer. A year and a half no issues. My 75 acrylic frag low boy less than $300 used tank diy stand new return pump. In the years I've reefing it's been my experience that it all depends on what you let yourself be talked into buying.
Can you reef on a budget? Absolutely!!
I don't have unlimited money but I have 4 reef tanks (down from 12 the electric bill was getting out of hand)running. Yes there are some corals I will never afford but I'm unwilling to throw hundreds of dollars at a small coral that could die despite everything being right. All my tanks are and were used always making sure they were not used for reptiles, rodents,turtles or birds.

One thing I have learned from this thread is that I am wrong on this subject. I will definitely do more research in the future

 

[mizukage]

I see people too often asking "I need help setting up a budget fish tank" but the best you can do is try to get sales or used things. the amount of money you spend reflects the quality of the tank. If you have a different opinion I'm open to hearing different viewpoints.

Respectfully, disagree that "the amount of money you spend reflects the quality of the tank". I've recently learned that Radions considered to be one of the top lights, you don't get what you pay for. Same thing with expensive vectra pumps. There are other more affordable options that can give you the same or better performance for less money.

Also, by "budget" i take that to mean not having all the bells and whistles. You don't need a Neptune system to be successful or have expensive dosing systems. You can still have a thriving tank without those and you've saved money or gone budget by not buying those things. They're nice to have not need to have.

Nothing wrong with sales or used things. If it's in good condition and still works, why not? There's tons of new stuff that fail within the first few months or year. New or Brand name doesn't always mean you won't get a lemon.

 

[Mattkasper 70]

Still trying to have a successful reef. 10 yrs total. Usually I tried to go cheap and DIY. In the end it didn’t work. My 2 cents is no such thing as a budget tank and stand. If you don’t mind searching for second hand equipment, worth a shot. Plenty of folks have good luck with cheap lighting for example. Not everyone needs Radions. But, don’t buy cheap if you’ll be pining for Radions. I have original Apex purchased 10 years ago and see no reason to upgrade to Pro 3 for example. But upon inspecting my used skimmer from previous tank, pins in impeller broken off one side, imbalanced, noisy! Had to buy new skimmer. As with anything, buy the best you can afford. Nobody buys a new corvette to put used parts on it.

 

[Tenecor Aquariums]

Eight pages of comments and not a single post ( at least I didn't see one) about the lifespan of the initial investment. Assume a 12 year lifespan that's about 4,300 days. $5K upfront cost is a little over a buck a day, not even adjusting for inflation. Yes, this is the upfront investment and does not include all the ongoing expenses. Buy quality. Avoid junk. Reminds me of the saying ; "One of The most expensive cars you can buy is cheap used Mercedes"

 

[William Chiavetta]

Eight pages of comments and not a single post ( at least I didn't see one) about the lifespan of the initial investment. Assume a 12 year lifespan that's about 4,300 days. $5K upfront cost is a little over a buck a day, not even adjusting for inflation. Yes, this is the upfront investment and does not include all the ongoing expenses. Buy quality. Avoid junk. Reminds me of the saying ; "One of The most expensive cars you can buy is cheap used Mercedes"

I didn't even think about this! this is great that you said this