Is this Ich?

[Tyson]

I've meticulously Qt'd everything is my display up to this point using the 30 day 2.5ppm copper treatment for fish, or a 45 day fishless system for inverts and coral. 2 weeks ago I added three new additions from one of the well regarded pre-qt'd sites. Now I'm concerned I'm seeing some ich on 2 of the new additions. One is a hippo tang, and a YLB. Please see the attached pictures. There's only about 3-4 tiny white dots on the black stripe of the hippo, but the butterflies fins (see pic of tail) look to have several spots too. There's was what looked like a couple small patches of lymph on the butterfly when received, but this is looking a bit different now. The dots have been on the fish for 2-3 days now.

I might be being a bit paranoid, but wanted to get some others' thoughts. I'm also going out of down for 8 days at the end of the week.

 

[Shiva89]

possibly. i dont see white spots on the body really. Feed super heavy. get your fish fat. Add a uv. ich isnt a death sentence for your fish

 

[MnFish1]

First - I assume you mean the 'long-nose butterfly'. as YLB? (i.e. hopefully there is not another fish). second - assuming you did the Qt as you said - the spots do look like ICh - did you use a monitor? Did you make sure the levels were appropriate? were there any fish in your tank that could have had Ich (i.e. not quarantined?) - third - it could be early lymphocytis - which can happen with transfers. Im sure others will weigh in

 

[MnFish1]

possibly. i dont see white spots on the body really. Feed super heavy. get your fish fat. Add a uv. ich isnt a death sentence for your fish

Research in multiple journals would disagree with you

 

[Tyson]

Sorry, yes the long nose butterfly. I qt'd everything in the tank myself over a few years, and I did use the hanna checker. I suppose it's possible it was in there, but I've never seen any symptoms.

The only fish in the system that I didn't personally put through 2.5ppm copper are the the hippo, the butterfly, and a royal gramma. All of which I just added as "Pre-qt'd" 2 weeks ago. They all did look clean when I received them. I supposed something was lying dormant in the system, but 4-5 years ago I did a 76 day fallow period after bringing in something on a coral frag. Have been super careful every since.

At this point, do you think it's just wait monitor? Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of town from 11/10 - 11/20, which has me worried.

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry, yes the long nose butterfly. I qt'd everything in the tank myself over a few years, and I did use the hanna checker. I suppose it's possible it was in there, but I've never seen any symptoms.

The only fish in the system that I didn't personally put through 2.5ppm copper are the the hippo, the butterfly, and a royal gramma. All of which I just added as "Pre-qt'd" 2 weeks ago. They all did look clean when I received them. I supposed something was lying dormant in the system, but 4-5 years ago I did a 76 day fallow period after bringing in something on a coral frag. Have been super careful every since.

At this point, do you think it's just wait monitor? Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of town from 11/10 - 11/20, which has me worried.

Were it me - I would set up a quarantine tank and read all the fish - including the old and new

 

[MnFish1]

Just to make sure - did you put the Long nose butterfly , the hippo and the gramma in the tank without qT - OR did you use the same protocol for them?

 

[Tyson]

No, the butterfly, hippo and gramma went into the tank without going through my QT. This was my first purchase of pre-quarantined fish. I was a little leery, but the vendor receives tons of positive feedback here, so I ended up taking a chance.

 

[Tyson]

Were it me - I would set up a quarantine tank and read all the fish - including the old and new

If I go this route, it's going to have to be after I get back from vacation. If it is ich, it's somewhat minimal now, how long does it usually take to really explode. Think I have 14 days?

 

[MnFish1]

If I go this route, it's going to have to be after I get back from vacation. If it is ich, it's somewhat minimal now, how long does it usually take to really explode. Think I have 14 days?

Lets hope it gets better - lets say it that way - I am not sure there is a specific definition
It depends on temp, etc

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've meticulously Qt'd everything is my display up to this point using the 30 day 2.5ppm copper treatment for fish, or a 45 day fishless system for inverts and coral. 2 weeks ago I added three new additions from one of the well regarded pre-qt'd sites. Now I'm concerned I'm seeing some ich on 2 of the new additions. One is a hippo tang, and a YLB. Please see the attached pictures. There's only about 3-4 tiny white dots on the black stripe of the hippo, but the butterflies fins (see pic of tail) look to have several spots too. There's was what looked like a couple small patches of lymph on the butterfly when received, but this is looking a bit different now. The dots have been on the fish for 2-3 days now.

I might be being a bit paranoid, but wanted to get some others' thoughts. I'm also going out of down for 8 days at the end of the week.

Possibly - I see suspicious spots on the tail of the LN. No quarantine is 100%, but a good one handles most cases of ich.
The trick now is to watch the spots for a few days - if they come and go but generally increase in number it is probably ich. If the same spots are in the same location day after day, it’s less likely to be ich.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've meticulously Qt'd everything is my display up to this point using the 30 day 2.5ppm copper treatment for fish, or a 45 day fishless system for inverts and coral. 2 weeks ago I added three new additions from one of the well regarded pre-qt'd sites. Now I'm concerned I'm seeing some ich on 2 of the new additions. One is a hippo tang, and a YLB. Please see the attached pictures. There's only about 3-4 tiny white dots on the black stripe of the hippo, but the butterflies fins (see pic of tail) look to have several spots too. There's was what looked like a couple small patches of lymph on the butterfly when received, but this is looking a bit different now. The dots have been on the fish for 2-3 days now.

I might be being a bit paranoid, but wanted to get some others' thoughts. I'm also going out of down for 8 days at the end of the week.

What behaviors are you seeing? Looks like flukes but there are other possibilities. With flukes not limited to, but some signs you will see are :
lethargic behavior, swimming near the water surface, developing clamped fins, hiding in the corner of the tank or behind rocks, losing their appetite, shake their head, flash, or scratch. They may also express what looks like yawning.
easy to treat but must be confirmed. Generally Formalin or Prazi Pro are good treatment IF the fish is confirmed with flukes.
IF ich, count the dots now. Tomorrow morning if more are present, you may then be facing ich parasite.

 

[Tyson]

Thanks guys. I'll take some more pics and note locations of spots. I haven't dealt with ich a ton, typically how long does it take for the parasite to drop off and the spots to appear moving? A couple days? There's no other behavioral issues, no flashing, head shaking, loss of appetite, etc.

Since I'm going out of town this Thursday, I'm toying with the idea of buying a cheap jebao UV sterilizer and plumbing it in before I leave. I've got an extra spot on my manifold that's not being used. Think that would help?

 

[Uncle99]

Not a advanced case, but I do see a few on both.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks guys. I'll take some more pics and note locations of spots. I haven't dealt with ich a ton, typically how long does it take for the parasite to drop off and the spots to appear moving? A couple days? There's no other behavioral issues, no flashing, head shaking, loss of appetite, etc.

Since I'm going out of town this Thursday, I'm toying with the idea of buying a cheap jebao UV sterilizer and plumbing it in before I leave. I've got an extra spot on my manifold that's not being used. Think that would help?

I wouldn’t rely on a small UV sterilizer to give much benefit.
Going out of town can be an issue when dealing with disease issues - it would be best to get a treatment started before you go.
Jay

 

[Shiva89]

Research in multiple journals would disagree with you

disagree with me on what?

 

[Tyson]

Unfortunately, getting a treatment started before I go is going to be tough. I've got 11 fish in a 180. There's likely more risk in trying to get 1 or 2 large treatment tanks up and running. My tank sitter (my dad), is good to stop by for some basic checks, topping off ato, and feeding, but I'd be certain to have some ammonia issues and water changes needed while I'm gone.

I do have a my 29g QT setup and established right now set at 2.5pm CU. It currently has a tiny bristletooth tang in it (for 3 weeks). I could potentially catch the hippo and LN and drop them in the 29g QT while I'm gone. The other fish still aren't showing any symptoms.

I'm thinking I have 2 possible courses of action. Monitor the hippo/LN until Wed evening/Thurs morning. If I'm seeing increase number of spots I should be able to catch them and start treatment in my 29 gallon.

If they look the same or better, it may not 100% ich, and leave it be until I get back on the 20th? I know this isn't ideal...

I did a full tank tear apart to treat 5 or 6 fish on a 65 gallon several years ago, and it was an all day event. It's going to be hard to justify doing that to this tank until I'm absolutely sure what's going on.

Thoughts?

 

[MnFish1]

disagree with me on what?

ich isnt a death sentence for your fish

There wouldn't be millions of dollars spent on the attempt to make a vaccine for CI - if it was not a 'potential' death sentence for fish. There are multiple variables - that influence infectivity, etc of the parasite. IMHO - you cannot guarantee curing CI with more feeding, etc. you can help prevent severe illness perhaps - with a conditioned fish. Unfortunately, many of the fish we receive are in poor condition - as compared to good condition.

Said another way - If you have well fed fish - they may fend off CI better than a poorly conditioned fish. However if a fish has CI - I'm not sure there is any evidence (maybe you can provide it) - suggesting that feeding more, etc - provides any more benefit than chance alone?

 

[Tyson]

So the dots faded off the hippo before I left, and the LN was looking better as well, so i left them be. However, I just got home and lost the LN, I also see my potters angel color is faded, flashing, and breathing heavily. I see a few small dots on a few of the fins of the other fish, but no salt speckles on the bodies. Could this be flukes instead? Can flukes present as small dots on fins?


Trying to decide my path forward. I can pull the potters tonight and get in QT with my healthly bristletooth. It's currently running at full CU. I could does GC in the QT as well. Possibly a freshwater dip first? I'm also trying to decide if I should does prazipro in my display?

@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081

 

[vetteguy53081]

So the dots faded off the hippo before I left, and the LN was looking better as well, so i left them be. However, I just got home and lost the LN, I also see my potters angel color is faded, flashing, and breathing heavily. I see a few small dots on a few of the fins of the other fish, but no salt speckles on the bodies. Could this be flukes instead? Can flukes present as small dots on fins?


Trying to decide my path forward. I can pull the potters tonight and get in QT with my healthly bristletooth. It's currently running at full CU. I could does GC in the QT as well. Possibly a freshwater dip first? I'm also trying to decide if I should does prazipro in my display?

@Jay Hemdal
@vetteguy53081

On the vanished dots, can be sand, ich trophonts falling off and going to tromont stage . The symptoms you described on angel still suggest flukes. While you can do FW dip, placing it in with bristletooth will not address flukes if it is.
Can you provide updated pic under white lighting of the symptoms you are seeing ?