Is this Ich?

[Soup Sandwich]

I noticed this morning a couple white spots on one of my Chalk Basslets. They are on the very edge of the tail and are fairly large (look larger than most Ich spots I see online). The chalk bass is acting completely normal, is eating well and has not shown any signs of flashing or irritation.

thanks in advance.

 

[Dom]

Looks like it.

 

[Soup Sandwich]

Thanks Dom. I will try to get some better pictures tonight. I quickly wrote the original post last night so I wanted to add some more details.

The fish have been in the tank for over 2 weeks now and were the last things added to the tank. The only other inhabitants are two small clowns, a banded trophus, and 2 red legged hermits, along with various coral frags.

I did notice another larger white spot on the fin of another chalk bass. The spots are only on the tail/fins at or close to the very outer edge. Maybe 6 spots total between the two fish. All fish are acting very healthy, eating well, and are all out in the open with no signs of flashing or irritation.

I want to try to confirm 100% that it is Ich before I begin reacting to it. My quarantine setup is currently housing a new yellow tang so I am going to have to buy an entire new setup if that is the case (which I would like to avoid if possible).

I am openly accepting any and all input, recommendations or thoughts on the best course of action.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dom]

Since this is going on in your display, I’d suggest that you work under the assumption that your entire tank is infected.

I’ve had success in treating ich via hypo-salinity and fresh water dips.

Try that before spending money on bottled solutions.

 

[Soup Sandwich]

Since this is going on in your display, I’d suggest that you work under the assumption that your entire tank is infected.

I’ve had success in treating ich via hypo-salinity and fresh water dips.

Try that before spending money on bottled solutions.

Thanks for your input Dom. In your successful experience how low did you run your salinity, over how long did you drop the salinity, and how long did you run your setup in a hypo-salinity state?

 

[Dom]

Thanks for your input Dom. In your successful experience how low did you run your salinity, over how long did you drop the salinity, and how long did you run your setup in a hypo-salinity state?

Fortunately, Ich reared its ugly head while my fish was in QT.

I removed 1 gallon of water from the QT and then dripped a gallon of fresh RODI until the tank was at level. Then measured my salinity. I repeated the process until my salinity was down to 1.010.

Additionally, I removed the fish and placed it in 1 gallon of RODI for 2 minutes daily for one week.

Then I gradually raised the salinity to 1.026 over a period of several days.

Once that was done, I monitored to see if there was a return. And I wait 90 days for everything.

Your situation is a bit different as it is your display tank. And corals do not do well in a hypo salinity environment.

So you would have to remove your fish and place them in a QT to do this. Also, I wouldn't place fish back into your display until the tank has been fishless for 90 days.

Here is a thread that talks about hypo salinity. It was written by @Humblefish, who knows his stuff. Have a look.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock Therapy) What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans). How To Treat – Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Soup Sandwich]

Fortunately, Ich reared its ugly head while my fish was in QT.

I removed 1 gallon of water from the QT and then dripped a gallon of fresh RODI until the tank was at level. Then measured my salinity. I repeated the process until my salinity was down to 1.010.

Additionally, I removed the fish and placed it in 1 gallon of RODI for 2 minutes daily for one week.

Then I gradually raised the salinity to 1.026 over a period of several days.

Once that was done, I monitored to see if there was a return. And I wait 90 days for everything.

Your situation is a bit different as it is your display tank. And corals do not do well in a hypo salinity environment.

So you would have to remove your fish and place them in a QT to do this. Also, I wouldn't place fish back into your display until the tank has been fishless for 90 days.

Here is a thread that talks about hypo salinity. It was written by @Humblefish, who knows his stuff. Have a look.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity (Osmotic Shock Therapy) What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Flukes (Monogeneans). How To Treat – Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG...

www.reef2reef.com

That’s a very helpful read, thank you. Fortunately for my coral situation they are all either still on frag plugs or attached to small rocks which I can easily remove.
I may setup a 5gallon nano tank I have to temporarily home the coral frags and inverts then run hypo in the DT, as I would like to avoid introducing anything to the Tang’s QT since he is a couple weeks in already.

 

[Dom]

That’s a very helpful read, thank you. Fortunately for my coral situation they are all either still on frag plugs or attached to small rocks which I can easily remove.
I may setup a 5gallon nano tank I have to temporarily home the coral frags and inverts then run hypo in the DT, as I would like to avoid introducing anything to the Tang’s QT since he is a couple weeks in already.

Yes, you can remove your corals until you finish the process. Just remember to provide the corals with adequate flow and lighting in their temporary home.

Hopefully @Humblefish will chime in soon. I'd like for you to have his input.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Dom. I will try to get some better pictures tonight. I quickly wrote the original post last night so I wanted to add some more details.

The fish have been in the tank for over 2 weeks now and were the last things added to the tank. The only other inhabitants are two small clowns, a banded trophus, and 2 red legged hermits, along with various coral frags.

I did notice another larger white spot on the fin of another chalk bass. The spots are only on the tail/fins at or close to the very outer edge. Maybe 6 spots total between the two fish. All fish are acting very healthy, eating well, and are all out in the open with no signs of flashing or irritation.

I want to try to confirm 100% that it is Ich before I begin reacting to it. My quarantine setup is currently housing a new yellow tang so I am going to have to buy an entire new setup if that is the case (which I would like to avoid if possible).

I am openly accepting any and all input, recommendations or thoughts on the best course of action.

Thanks in advance.

Your comment that the spots are different sizes and are mostly on the fin edges is the key clue here. This is Lymphocystis, not Cryptocaryon (ich). This is a viral disease and cannot be treated, but will go away on its own in 4 to 8 weeks. If it gets on the fish’s mouth, it impairs feeding and that is more of a problem.
That said, chalk bass do get ich pretty easily. I have seen them get Lympho, then get ich at the same time, and people can’t tell the difference until it is too late. Watch for small spots coming and going over a days time, that is how ich behaves. It is important to quarantine all new fish.
Jay

 

[Soup Sandwich]

Hi Jay, thank you very much for your input.
After a quick google search the images of lympho look much more in line with what is on the chalk bass. I will continue to monitor and get some better photographs tonight.

I fully agree with the importance of quarantine. I rushed the quarantine process for these because I was anxious to pick up a yellow tang while it was available because of how the stock has been limited lately.

first and last time I make that mistake.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[Dom]

@Jay Hemdal

Thanks for chiming in, Jay. Did what I could to help out but no ego to soothe here. Better that he have accurate information and direction.

So if I understand your post, Ich can appear anywhere on the body, but lymphocystis are edges of fins and mouth?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Thanks for chiming in, Jay. Did what I could to help out but no ego to soothe here. Better that he have accurate information and direction.

So if I understand your post, Ich can appear anywhere on the body, but lymphocystis are edges of fins and mouth?

Lymphocytis can appear on any skin cells, but usually on the trailing edges of the fins. I commonly see it transfer - for example, on the trailing edges of the pectoral fins, but then showing up on the body where the fins hit it while the fins brush against it while swimming. Because the size and color of the lymphocystis growths can vary, I rely more on how/where they grow versus how they look.
Also, it is more common in some species versus others; grammas and small serranids like this get it very often, hamlets are one of the worst. Pomacanhus angels get it also. I’ve never seen it on eels for example.
Basically, the virus enters the skin cells and causes them to grow to a huge size.

Jay

 

[Soup Sandwich]

Thanks Jay.

It seems like there is not much to do aside from providing the cleanest water possible and maybe some extra immune system boosting foods.

I really appreciate your help and quick response on this

 

[jaganshi066]

Your comment that the spots are different sizes and are mostly on the fin edges is the key clue here. This is Lymphocystis, not Cryptocaryon (ich). This is a viral disease and cannot be treated, but will go away on its own in 4 to 8 weeks. If it gets on the fish’s mouth, it impairs feeding and that is more of a problem.
That said, chalk bass do get ich pretty easily. I have seen them get Lympho, then get ich at the same time, and people can’t tell the difference until it is too late. Watch for small spots coming and going over a days time, that is how ich behaves. It is important to quarantine all new fish.
Jay

Hi @Jay Hemdal i came Across this post because after I treated my fish for ich in cupramine, now my yellow tang has lympho,, but no think it is around his mouth too. I’m really worried about him and have no idea why it developed. I do water changes everyday in my quarantine tank to ensure good water quality. I bought vitachem today and will soak all his foods before feeding time. Do you think it’s better than selcon?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi @Jay Hemdal i came Across this post because after I treated my fish for ich in cupramine, now my yellow tang has lympho,, but no think it is around his mouth too. I’m really worried about him and have no idea why it developed. I do water changes everyday in my quarantine tank to ensure good water quality. I bought vitachem today and will soak all his foods before feeding time. Do you think it’s better than selcon?

Can you post a picture to help confirm it is Lymphocystis?

Selcon is essential fatty acids, Vitachem is mostly vitamins, so they serve different purposes. Neither will directly cure Lymphocystis, any more than "chicken soup" will cure common colds.

Jay

 

[jaganshi066]

Can you post a picture to help confirm it is Lymphocystis?

Selcon is essential fatty acids, Vitachem is mostly vitamins, so they serve different purposes. Neither will directly cure Lymphocystis, any more than "chicken soup" will cure common colds.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That could be Lymphocystis, but it can also be something we see in tangs - excess mucus production. Neither issue has any treatment. The mucus production seems to be caused by stress (especially copper treatments), I see it more on blue tangs, but I have seen it on yellows. People often blame bacteria or viruses for this, but when I've done skin scrapes of this and looked at it under a microscope, all I see are mucuoid cells.

Where did you get an adult yellow tang? I've only seen tiny tank raised ones available since Hawaii closed down.

Jay

 

[jaganshi066]

That could be Lymphocystis, but it can also be something we see in tangs - excess mucus production. Neither issue has any treatment. The mucus production seems to be caused by stress (especially copper treatments), I see it more on blue tangs, but I have seen it on yellows. People often blame bacteria or viruses for this, but when I've done skin scrapes of this and looked at it under a microscope, all I see are mucuoid cells.

Where did you get an adult yellow tang? I've only seen tiny tank raised ones available since Hawaii closed down.

Jay

This one is more than 5 years old, a friend gave it to me last December right before the ban. Is there anything I can do to help it cause even it’s mouth is turning a little white. It’s still eating though, and also in your experience does this go away? It seems to be covering the outer line of his body not directly on his body of that makes sense. I’m buying live brine every week for them cause I feel bad

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This one is more than 5 years old, a friend gave it to me last December right before the ban. Is there anything I can do to help it cause even it’s mouth is turning a little white. It’s still eating though, and also in your experience does this go away? It seems to be covering the outer line of his body not directly on his body of that makes sense. I’m buying live brine every week for them cause I feel bad

I’ve never seen Lymphocystis in 5 year captive fish. I suppose if it never was exposed to the virus and then did get exposed in your system, it could happen, but I’m leaning more to the mucus idea. The white mouth may be another issue, so keep an eye on that.
Jay

 

[jaganshi066]

I’ve never seen Lymphocystis in 5 year captive fish. I suppose if it never was exposed to the virus and then did get exposed in your system, it could happen, but I’m leaning more to the mucus idea. The white mouth may be another issue, so keep an eye on that.
Jay

It’s like a small white thing just like the things surrounding the body, if it is mucus around his body, is there anyway for that to go away or best help the fish?