Is Anyone In The Club Nano Bubbling?

[Rob.D]

I'm still not utilizing outside air, and am not on a timer yet. Need @Rob.D to come over and see if what I'm doing is adequate. [emoji4]

Jeff, I just saw you tagged me....I'm not getting notifications when I get tagged??? I'll try to swing by this week or early next week.

 

[BlueDevil]

Ah. I think the scrubber and kalk might be mitigating the pH drop due to inside air being used. Interesting.

 

[Nibejeebies]

Aquatic marine has the limewood air stones, at least as of today when I was in there getting dry goods.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

For your viewing pleasure...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpJ9y2PjWr6xMQ-rVUjKzAoK1_qX4-X_t

 

[BlueDevil]

@Cruz_Arias - what if there isn't an easy way to bring outside air in to run the micro bubbles and I used inside air? Would doing so defeat the purpose of this altogether? Or would I see some benefits even using inside air? I'm guessing I likely won't see any pH stability benefits that I would come to expect using fresh air, but should I still see improved coral growth since the bubbles will still play their part in removing the excess slime and promoting new tissue growth?

 

[Reefrookie220]

@Cruz_Arias - what if there isn't an easy way to bring outside air in to run the micro bubbles and I used inside air? Would doing so defeat the purpose of this altogether? Or would I see some benefits even using inside air? I'm guessing I likely won't see any pH stability benefits that I would come to expect using fresh air, but should I still see improved coral growth since the bubbles will still play their part in removing the excess slime and promoting new tissue growth?

Awesome question Yash, following!

 

[Cruz_Arias]

@Cruz_Arias - what if there isn't an easy way to bring outside air in to run the micro bubbles and I used inside air? Would doing so defeat the purpose of this altogether? Or would I see some benefits even using inside air? I'm guessing I likely won't see any pH stability benefits that I would come to expect using fresh air, but should I still see improved coral growth since the bubbles will still play their part in removing the excess slime and promoting new tissue growth?

It really depends on how well aerated your system is and what "facet" of microscrubbing you are looking for...
Like @Randy Holmes-Farley mentioned many times, it depends on the CO2 concentration within the home... And that is why we utilize fresh outdoor air in many of our applications.

HOWEVER, there is a way to utilize a CO2 Scrubber to remove excess carbon dioxide out of the air utilizing litho lyme, soda lime, or even kalkwasser (aq)
We have also hooked up a scuba tank (30% O2 70% N2) to a Tupperware container housing the air pump, to ensure that the majority of the air being utilized has a grater concentration of available O2
It doesn't look pretty, so I'm going to opt to not post the pic here... LOL

You will see only the mechanical benefits portion of this method, but not necessarily the chemical or gas exchange stabilization of the system. For instance, if (an example only) you were micro scrubbing with methane or any other "bad non-breathable gas", things will suffocate... (Please don't scrub with methane!!! Example only!)

The same goes with CO2... if the CO2 is redissolved back into the system, you'll experience a pH drop due to the formation of carbonic acid and possible suffocation of the entire ecosystem.

Using an additional CO2 scrubber and filtration media to "clean the air" of particulates and excess CO2 is definitely the cheapest way to go...

 

[BlueDevil]

Thanks for your reply @Cruz_Arias! Quite a bit of useful information provided there. I guess I should have added more details about my system.

I am running a lightly stocked mixed reef in a 40 breeder. I have had no pH issues. Lately, with the cooler temps settling in, my pH fluctuates between 8.05 and 8.30 over a 24-hour period. What caught my interest in microbubbling was the increased growth and coloration in SPS in particular that most folks have experienced. So, while I won't necessary need the pH stability that this process provides, I would like to know if running a microbubbler using inside air would even provide and growth/coloration benefits. I am currently microbubbling via a limewood airstone for 3 total hours (6 x 30 min intervals) through the night.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

You should be fine. Being that co2 is a heavy gas, try to keep the air pump at least off the ground (4ft minimum) and definitely out of the sump area.

If you can place the air pump on a window sill, even better.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Remember, the weigh a wooden air diffuser in a high laminar flow section (the weir) right before the return pump chamber. This will generate a very very fine mist of micro/nanos that we're wanting.

 

[BlueDevil]

I should be able to put the air pump on a window sill so I will give that a shot. My limewood airstone is currently placed in the chamber before my return chamber. The return pump slices up a majority of the bubbles and those that make it through the return loc line end up being funneled straight at my powerhead for further slicing So I do end up with a pretty fine mist.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Very nice!! If you could, would you be able to show the others what the fine mist looks like? Thanks!

And where you placed the air diffuser.

 

[BlueDevil]

Very nice!! If you could, would you be able to show the others what the fine mist looks like? Thanks!

And where you placed the air diffuser.

Sure thing! I'll try to get some pictures and a video this weekend.

 

[saltrookie53]

I want to follow along on this cause of the coral growth...

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I want to follow along on this cause of the coral growth...

We do it for overall health of the system and clarity and stability of water chemistry.

Get those two solid and stable, then growth follows close behind.

 

[BlueDevil]

Here is where my limewood airstone is located in the sump. It is about halfway down my return pump body. This prevents the really large bubbles from getting in the system. The way my return locline is situated (well at least one of the two), the bubbles are directed straight at my powerhead, which further chops up the microbubbles. The end result is a very fine mist (microbubbles about half the size of fry food pellets). Also attached is a short video. The microbubbles for some reason seem a little larger than mist sized in a video.

 

[saltrookie53]

Here is where my limewood airstone is located in the sump. It is about halfway down my return pump body. This prevents the really large bubbles from getting in the system. The way my return locline is situated (well at least one of the two), the bubbles are directed straight at my powerhead, which further chops up the microbubbles. The end result is a very fine mist (microbubbles about half the size of fry food pellets). Also attached is a short video. The microbubbles for some reason seem a little larger than mist sized in a video.

Are you pulling in fresh outside air or did you place your air pump higher up??

 

[BlueDevil]

Are you pulling in fresh outside air or did you place your air pump higher up??

No I am not pulling in fresh air. The only way I could do that with where the tank is situated is by drilling a hole in the wall to the outside of the house. If I even thought of doing that I'd be looking for a new house and wife! [emoji4]

So I currently have the pump sitting a few feet off the floor on top of my ATO container which is outside the sumo cabinet.

 

[CastAway]

@BlueDevil, what changes have you seen? Don't you run an Apex? If so, I'm curious what tangible results you've seen in Ph.

 

[BlueDevil]

@BlueDevil, what changes have you seen? Don't you run an Apex? If so, I'm curious what tangible results you've seen in Ph.

@CastAway - honestly, I haven't really had any major swings in my pH (touch wood!) so I haven't been able to tell if the microbubbling has impacted the pH any. In the warmer months, my pH has fluctuated between 8.0 and 8.2 and now that cooler weather has set in (with the heat in the house kicking in) my pH range is 8.1 to 8.3. And yes, I do have an Apex, and dose Alk (Randy's Recipe #1) every other hour from 0000 to 0600 for a total of 24ml daily. My 'bubbler' also runs from 0000 to 0600 for 6 cycles (30 mins on 30 off), for a total of 3 hours.

Now, I think the biggest reason I don't believe the bubbling has impacted the ph (its pretty obvious I think) is because I don't use fresh outside air. I am sure if I did, the pH would be impacted.

@Cruz_Arias - in your experience/opinion, would not using outside air hamper any of the growth/coloration benefits as well, in addition to the pH stability benefits? Or do you think I should still see those benefits?

As far as changes that I have seen goes, I really am not sure. As you know all my sticks are frags, so they are all mostly encrusting right now. But I can say for sure they are encrusting very well. Also, polyp extension has been fantastic. Is this solely because of bubbling, I can't say. But I will say that I have seen no detrimental effects whatsoever with the bubbling so I plan on sticking with it.

I can do an experiment to see if the pH is impacted in any way. What I can do is let the bubbler run this week and then turn it off the following week. Then, pull the pH charts from Apex to see how they compare with each other. I think I might do that

Hope this helps...