Introduction and Aquarium Build Questions

[txpatrick]

Howdy,

I am Patrick, a junior in college and a member of the Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2026. Whoop!

In my freshman year of high school, I started a 60-gallon frag tank from Waterbox. In preparation for college, I donated the tank to my mom's school. I am now yearning to get back into the hobby. I am not necessarily new but I have forgotten a lot about the hobby. Over the past few weeks, I have been researching what I need to purchase in order to start a nano tank. I was hoping people could provide me with some guidance and opinions on the equipment I have picked out to get started. Below is an itemized list.

I was able to retrieve the Hydra 32HD I had on my previous tank, so that is a plus.

Here is what I plan on stocking the thank with:
- Pair of clowns
- Orange Spotted Goby (or other goby)
- Pistol Shrimp
- Some snails

Corals (to start):
- Torch coral
- Zoa's

Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[Timfish]

Welcome to the forum!

I would urge you to use either wild or maricultured live rock. We have a much better understanding of the importance of microbiomes and there is a lot of stuff that can't be stuck in a bottle. Eventually as corals are added a lot will be established with "hitchhikers" that are associated/attached to colonies but adding rock that's from the ocean will be a faster and more reliable way to add it. Gulfliverock, KP aquatics and Tampa Bay Saltwater are good sources of maricultured live rock. While there is a focus on technology and quick fixes there has been huge strides in understanding the microbial and nutrient processes and it is far more complex than was previously thought. This is a bit of a data bomb but here's some links

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.

www.reef2reef.com

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas " This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title. Used copies are available on line and it may be free to read on Internet Archive. both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC (carbon dosing) in reef ecosystems and how it can alter coral microbiomes. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems and are an excellent starting point to understand the conflicting roles of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka "carbon dosing") in reef ecosystems.

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Microbial view of Coral Decline

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

To Save Corals in an Oahu Bay, First Vacuum up Invasive Algae, Then Apply Sea Urchins | response.restoration.noaa.gov

response.restoration.noaa.gov

This last link I found gratifying to see as I've been using the same basic technique to deal with nuisance algae in my systems since the 90s. I started with plastic tubing and migratied to using steel straws with water changes to manually remove algae and using urchins, hermit and/or sally light foot crabs to scrape algae from rocks.

 

[WvAquatics]

Shop | Innovative Marine Products

Shop Now | Innovative Marine's Official Store | Free Shipping on all orders* | NUVO aquariums and saltwater reef supplies.

www.innovative-marine.com

IM has a deal on there aio 25 gallon for 200$ just an option on tank.
Your pet will love this CaribSea Seaflor Special Aragonite Aquarium Sand, 15-lb bag:

https://www.chewy.com/dp/322475?utm_source=app-share&utm_campaign=322475

Check chewy for substrate 15lbs special grade for 15$
Great list just an few options to check out regardless great plan!

 

[danreef55]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!​

We're thrilled to have you join our reefing community. Whether you're just starting out or have years of experience, there's always something new to learn and share here. Feel free to dive into the discussions, ask questions, and share your own reefing adventures. We're all here to help and grow together. Happy reefing

 

[txpatrick]

Welcome to the forum!

I would urge you to use either wild or maricultured live rock. We have a much better understanding of the importance of microbiomes and there is a lot of stuff that can't be stuck in a bottle. Eventually as corals are added a lot will be established with "hitchhikers" that are associated/attached to colonies but adding rock that's from the ocean will be a faster and more reliable way to add it. Gulfliverock, KP aquatics and Tampa Bay Saltwater are good sources of maricultured live rock. While there is a focus on technology and quick fixes there has been huge strides in understanding the microbial and nutrient processes and it is far more complex than was previously thought. This is a bit of a data bomb but here's some links

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.

www.reef2reef.com

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas " This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title. Used copies are available on line and it may be free to read on Internet Archive. both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC (carbon dosing) in reef ecosystems and how it can alter coral microbiomes. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems and are an excellent starting point to understand the conflicting roles of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka "carbon dosing") in reef ecosystems.

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Microbial view of Coral Decline

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

To Save Corals in an Oahu Bay, First Vacuum up Invasive Algae, Then Apply Sea Urchins | response.restoration.noaa.gov

response.restoration.noaa.gov

This last link I found gratifying to see as I've been using the same basic technique to deal with nuisance algae in my systems since the 90s. I started with plastic tubing and migratied to using steel straws with water changes to manually remove algae and using urchins, hermit and/or sally light foot crabs to scrape algae from rocks.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. As for live rock, I am trying to keep it on the lower end as a college student. Would I be able to buy 5 pounds of the live rock and then 10 pounds of dry rock, or would this not be enough live rock?

One addition question I’ve seen asked a few times. On gulf live rock, they offer corals to offset the shipping cost for the live rock. Would I be able to purchase some corals with the live rock before the tank is cycled?

 

[Brisk]

Welcome!

 

[Timfish]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. As for live rock, I am trying to keep it on the lower end as a college student. Would I be able to buy 5 pounds of the live rock and then 10 pounds of dry rock, or would this not be enough live rock?

One addition question I’ve seen asked a few times. On gulf live rock, they offer corals to offset the shipping cost for the live rock. Would I be able to purchase some corals with the live rock before the tank is cycled?

Your welcome!

FWIW, I generally use 3/4 to 1 lb rock per gallon and it's generally about 50/50 maricultured/local holy rock. If you found one or two pieces of maricultured at a LFS that had cryptic sponges on the unlit sides that would be good even if it was only a pound or two. Using a 50/50 mix and QTing the maricultured rock first I'm adding fish and easy corals within a day. I'd add that the corals show upon the maricultured rock typically survive the process. Short answer, probably.

 

[WvAquatics]

I would say adding corals is based on your experience. Even with real live rock from the ocean there might be a little cycle. Depending on the corals it might not be a good idea. Me personally wouldn't add any corals until ugly stage passes.
Companies and people like BRS WWC TSA can add corals to a brand new tank almost right away but they have the knowledge and ability to throw years old rock and bacteria in the tank to stabilize it fast. Most home aquarist should wait for the ugly stages to pass to get nutrients levels stable.

 

[slogan315]

There’s a lot of people trying to get out of the hobby right now with the economy and such…. I’d recommend finding a good used setup. I’m in dfw, and there are setups for sale cheap all the time. Even if you replace the tank with a smaller one, (if you only want 15g), it’ll save a ton of money vs buying all this stuff new.

 

[txpatrick]

Your welcome!

FWIW, I generally use 3/4 to 1 lb rock per gallon and it's generally about 50/50 maricultured/local holy rock. If you found one or two pieces of maricultured at a LFS that had cryptic sponges on the unlit sides that would be good even if it was only a pound or two. Using a 50/50 mix and QTing the maricultured rock first I'm adding fish and easy corals within a day. I'd add that the corals show upon the maricultured rock typically survive the process. Short answer, probably.

I would say adding corals is based on your experience. Even with real live rock from the ocean there might be a little cycle. Depending on the corals it might not be a good idea. Me personally wouldn't add any corals until ugly stage passes.
Companies and people like BRS WWC TSA can add corals to a brand new tank almost right away but they have the knowledge and ability to throw years old rock and bacteria in the tank to stabilize it fast. Most home aquarist should wait for the ugly stages to pass to get nutrients levels stable.

I checked out TBS and planned to purchase their "treasure chest" of 8 pounds of base live rock and then do the rest in dry rock. However, I just saw a Facebook marketplace post pop up of someone trying to sell their 13g setup. I asked them how much rock was in the tank and they said 10 pounds. They offered me $250 for just the live rock and livestock (2 gladiator clowns, 1 regal damsel, 2 emerald crabs, and 2 hermits). They said the tank has been going for a year.

I am interested in this offer because it's close to me and relatively cheap compared to buying the equivalent online. My only worry is moving everything to my new tank setup. Do you think this rock would have enough bacteria to be safely added into new fresh saltwater along with the livestock? Do you think I should take some of the salt water from their tank and add it to my new setup? If so how much?

Let me know if you think the TBS route is better because these are the two options I am balancing at the moment.

 

[slogan315]

I checked out TBS and planned to purchase their "treasure chest" of 8 pounds of base live rock and then do the rest in dry rock. However, I just saw a Facebook marketplace post pop up of someone trying to sell their 13g setup. I asked them how much rock was in the tank and they said 10 pounds. They offered me $250 for just the live rock and livestock (2 gladiator clowns, 1 regal damsel, 2 emerald crabs, and 2 hermits). They said the tank has been going for a year.

I am interested in this offer because it's close to me and relatively cheap compared to buying the equivalent online. My only worry is moving everything to my new tank setup. Do you think this rock would have enough bacteria to be safely added into new fresh saltwater along with the livestock? Do you think I should take some of the salt water from their tank and add it to my new setup? If so how much?

Let me know if you think the TBS route is better because these are the two options I am balancing at the moment.

$250 sounds like way too much. Also check that it is actually live rock like seeded in the ocean vs someone using bottled bacteria and dry rock start.

From the LFS:
- 2 gladiator clowns $125
- 1 damsel: $25
- 10 pounds of “live rock”: $70
- 2 hermits: $6
- 2 emerald crabs: $20

Total: ~$245

So IMO, unless it’s seeded live rock from the ocean, $250 is very not worth it. Especially since it locks you into other livestock you might not have chosen otherwise.

 

[txpatrick]

$250 sounds like way too much. Also check that it is actually live rock like seeded in the ocean vs someone using bottled bacteria and dry rock start.

From the LFS:
- 2 gladiator clowns $125
- 1 damsel: $25
- 10 pounds of “live rock”: $70
- 2 hermits: $6
- 2 emerald crabs: $20

Total: ~$245

So IMO, unless it’s seeded live rock from the ocean, $250 is very not worth it. Especially since it locks you into other livestock you might not have chosen otherwise.

The TBS route would be about $50 for rocks and $60-80 just for shipping. I do understand what you mean though. The person said that the rock was already established. I guess the prices are almost identical. Would you say that it’s fine to go the FB marketplace route or would you say I should just go with TBS?

* Thank you for all the help and sorry for so many questions*

 

[slogan315]

The TBS route would be about $50 for rocks and $60-80 just for shipping. I do understand what you mean though. The person said that the rock was already established. I guess the prices are almost identical. Would you say that it’s fine to go the FB marketplace route or would you say I should just go with TBS?

* Thank you for all the help and sorry for so many questions*

i think the marketplace route is great. I just think $250 is too much for what this one person is selling.

I haven’t done live rock directly from TBS. Lots of people swear by live rock since you get instant biodiversity, and reduce/skip the ugly phase. Established rock from the LFS or another running tank can do a similar thing. Maybe not as well but good enough.

If you had an unlimited budget, you’d get the “best” of everything. But having a budget means compromise and trade offs. And for a budget nano tank, do you want to spend a large part of your budget on the “best” rock or livestock?

 

[Timfish]

I checked out TBS and planned to purchase their "treasure chest" of 8 pounds of base live rock and then do the rest in dry rock. However, I just saw a Facebook marketplace post pop up of someone trying to sell their 13g setup. I asked them how much rock was in the tank and they said 10 pounds. They offered me $250 for just the live rock and livestock (2 gladiator clowns, 1 regal damsel, 2 emerald crabs, and 2 hermits). They said the tank has been going for a year.

I am interested in this offer because it's close to me and relatively cheap compared to buying the equivalent online. My only worry is moving everything to my new tank setup. Do you think this rock would have enough bacteria to be safely added into new fresh saltwater along with the livestock? Do you think I should take some of the salt water from their tank and add it to my new setup? If so how much?

Let me know if you think the TBS route is better because these are the two options I am balancing at the moment.

You'll have to decide which is more convenient but I'd reiterate Slogan315's points, especially when it comes to what someone calls "live rock". IF you decide to go with the local offer AND there's no apparent issues when you look at it, use as much of the setup as is convenient.