Instant Tank Cycle

[brandon429]

Fair points

And since I always test claims using other people's aquariums, here's one heck of a large inspection for the claim regarding nitrite compliance
Twenty pages of constant tank examples asking for help with nitrite, I tell them to ignore it.


Every reef here was nitrite positive when we ignored it and instead chose ammonia control as the beginning start point

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Updated Cycling Science in Action This is a testless reef tank cycling thread, the only one from any board. If you ever had trouble with reef tank cycling in the past, you won't any longer after working some jobs with us. chances are you are using/about to use a method of reef tank cycling...

www.reef2reef.com

We find the polar opposite to be true. I feel that by going totally opposite regarding nitrite, we won't be able to post any consequences for doing so

My claim is that old cycling science instills a fear for consequence (stalled cycle) that doesn't even have one example on file. That stated risk/ consequence avoidance leads to massive amounts of unneeded bottle bac purchases and unsure start dates

So we named an exact start date right up front when they posted (old cycling science never does this, avoids accountability in live example work, tells every poster to just wait longer open-ended, refuses to be pinned to a clear start date) and we get months after follow up on several posts we can inspect for system health and we never use a second dose of bottle bac. (no dead bottles appeared where the work is logged)



By ignoring nitrite we posted happy reefs - some jobs very recently completed

New cycling science= take all concerns for nitrite and aim them at fish disease. Now that's a consequential step-- there really are logged consequences for skipping fallow and qt

I'm aware you don't advocate that but we do where all the cycling work is being logged. I've worked very hard above to clearly show its more beneficial to never own a nitrite test kit than to own one. I have many friends that agree, they'll never own the kit.

 

[brandon429]

I'm seeing dirt cotton fields Lasse when I look out my window

 

[brandon429]

The last few pages have taken the thread direction far away from visual cue cycling but I don't mind, that part wasn't getting much challenge anyway as all examples were turning out the same way.

we can move to inspecting dry start/ bottle bac systems to keep the energy flowing. You asked if aquabiomics / Eli should study this... when he does ill expect a publishing that goes fully against logged examples.

One discovery i was hoping for in the nitrite tests was to determine how macna conventions were able to consistently start on time if they're factoring a variable (nitrite) that can take up to two months to stabilize. They factor it by ignoring it. The conventions have both live rock and dry start systems every time, all meeting a specific start date

We can plainly see that sellers get all the timely starts and non stumbles, while buyers are tricked into variation and reinforcement by purchases. Forum peers who trade in dated information cause most of the unneeded purchases; bottle bac makers and testers merely provide the formal written spark.

Anyone who posts in my cycling threads gets a specific start date every time, fully pinned down to an inspectable date they can begin infecting their tank with velvet.

 

[Lasse]

You still not get it - To say that a water is not toxic for fish is not the same as saying that the nitrification cycle is working properly.

The reason why nitrite is not toxic for saltwater fish have with the construction of different active ions pumps/ion channels in the gills to do and that the oxygen transport in the blood is done with help of iron rich cells. There is not sure that this is valid for every animal in saltwater, those without gills and those with copper as the major metal in the oxygen binding blood

And there is different stage of toxicity - lethal and sub lethal,

You mention disease as more important thing to look at but oversee that for most fish diseases - stress is on of the most important factors if a pathogen can cause a disease or not. Even if it not the fish will be killed instantly of too high nitrite levels (which is the case in fresh water) - it has to handle it. This handling is stressful and take resources needed in order to hold up a good immune system. IME a high nitrite concentration will harm the fish immune system and make them more susceptible to diseases

IMO - there is a reason why most diseases happen during the first months of a new aquarium.

There is all reason in the world to be sure that the nitrification cycle is working properly before you start to load the aquarium with lot of food. Either by cause the nitrite peak and let it go down or start the aquarium slowly and gradually rise the load of food into the aquarium. This start - if done in the right way - can include a fish on the first day. Seeding with nitrification organisms will speed up the process

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

how macna conventions were able to consistently start on time if they're factoring a variable (nitrite) that can take up to two months to stabilize.

And how many days is an MACNA convention? No feeding three days before and no feeding during convent. Using stabilizers for NH3.

Forgot to mention before - been with setting up tanks for conventions too

You still focus on one sole thing - the fish should not die - at least not directly. There is a huge different setting up a tank for a weekend and set up a tank for working many years.

IMO - all of the problems with ugly periods and fish diseases during the first 6 months can be much lesser if people address the nitrification cycle the right way and have it to work properly. With the way I set up an aquarium for standing more than a weekend - I have not seen these problems at all. Life is not digital Brandon - it is very analogical instead - there is degrees in hell with other words

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I'm seeing dirt cotton fields Lasse when I look out my window

O sorry - I was wrong - it is not windmills you are hunting - instead you imaging this



Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Oh you have more than that false concern you can track out by clicking work lol


third tenet of old cycling science: cycles have an expiry date as if someone could name it specifically

always a consequence stated or implied, how much consequence exists though when people test out old cycling rule claims or try and find one single example off google?



*when conventions end without all sales being final, do they throw away the animals that were skip cycled into the convention? Nope, I’ve watched them disassemble tanks, rocks into styrofoam coolers, they skip cycle home just like we arrived.

surprised you above all would imply a quick expiration date for a convention cycle.


Since you‘re big into specific dates of action, when does a quick convention quick cycle end, and the animals die


you can keep posting funnies if that helps reinforce claims but we have actual tank examples for every claim so far.

 

[brandon429]

recap of your claims vs mine:

1. Nitrite matters in reefing/cycling

it only matters in nitrate testing for the first couple months after a dry start, and we don't care what nitrate reads. even after nitrite compliance 90% of the stated nitrate reads are from api, do a search on api nitrate validity in comparison threads. the only param needed to know in reef tank cycling is ammonia control. Nitrate sampling doesnt just become accurate all of a sudden just because nitrite control has met the times from a cycling chart and beyond, its still completely ballparking and of no use in cycle tracking.

2. You said cycles have an expiration date where things undo, a bad consequence happens.

not only is that untrue, we show the opposite in MSteven's work: complete upcycling to completion unassisted within sixty days. the longer you wait withholding feed, the more cycled the system becomes due to environmental offerings you validated in NeonRabbit's thread but just not here conveniently.

3. Consistent stated start dates plus ability to inspect outcomes for new tank owners/cycle learners
You have not provided one, we're at 300.

4. Due to unclear positioning/writing for two years here, I cannot tell if you're against the ability to call a tank cycled off pictures/detail markers in the pics

we've been doing that exclusively here until we decided it was time to branch out and cover all cycles, dry starts included. It is 100% possible to call a cycle off tank pics and I can see why Eli was against that two years ago, before becoming aquabiomics/ $



5. No reef tank cycle has stalled, not ever, not one, still looking for a single example among the million cycles logged on google search. They're all test kit reporting issues, all of them, and none are dead fish. The consequences you constantly relay don't exist. The reason cycles take different lengths of time (but have a known ready date even before the build, can attend a convention if invited) is because each form of vector for bacteria has its own timescale, no reef cycle breaks these rules even if we overdose on ammonia a little too much


6. Using accurate ammonia meters has changed the landscape of cycling and evened the playing fields between sellers who withhold accurate information and buyers who seek fair and accurate information that doesnt always lead them back to a purchase. Before digitial nh3 verification, buyers were getting scammed at a massive rate by old cycling science.

7. old cycling science KILLS fish they hope to maintain

by removing the focus off disease control (hey look at my tank, no quarantine, that's what you should do is how I read your fifteen steps thread) old school cyclers replace the doubt in bacteria with a wait offer or a buy offer, and then in eight months after earning nitrite completion on api a disease has killed all their fish.

8. Old school cycling science rarely validates the ammonia line on a cycling chart, in fact they make money by causing doubt in the logged timeframes.




Old school cycling wants your time and your money, they peddle costly ways to measure bacteria, they peddle ways you can embellish bacteria if nitrite hasn't complied by month 3 (we showed that in links) and its all false false false.

I will slowly erase nitrite factoring in reef tank cycling for the benefit of aquarists, against the grain of the sales machine tricking them out of cash and clicks. Watch in the new tanks forum how peers now relay the true nitrite data to each other (ignore it)

slowly but surely, new cycling science will win out over the old ways and buyers won't be 24x7 sales targets from sly salesmen.

 

[brandon429]

a unique cycle method below: used reef water only, no feed no bac, and all dry surfaces. Water transfer only cycle, a test of claims.

the going public response when asked about transmissible cycling bacteria in water is *no* and that only surfaces have bacteria to transfer. A result of thinking fluid from one tank couldn’t carry life to another tank free of charge is we’d buy something to provide the bacteria that training manuals don’t tell us how to access, free of charge.

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

and there's a dry start system fully cycled by water contact alone from the main system within 20 days (meets cycling chart timelines, yet again, we didnt need to buy bottle bac~)


here's yet another hundred tests or so...the point of this thread below was to watch for doubters about to buy bottle bac a second and third time, interrupt that process, then track out the outcomes. This was a buyer's impulse study thread

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

hate the data if you like lol at least it’s a shared theme worked in each post…and you can direct message the poster to check outcomes.

I think there alone we at least stopped the re purchase of two grand in bottle bac.


I'm glad to have your posts, point and counter point is what evolves our practices. Without your input/going solely off Eli's this thread would have less activity



I'm not posting against you just because I like arguing with internet personalities. Its because we want to establish reliable, cheap and consistent means of tank cycling among today's standards that are 100% purchase-based in some way

 

[Lasse]

The nitrification bacteria is not free swimming - thats right. However - this means not that water can´t contain nitrification bacteria because they attach to small particles in the water. Particles that are so small that you can´t see them if they not are to many

Nearly all waste water treatment in Sweden is build on that principles - bacteria attached to particles in the water. Just look for active sludge treatment. and it works for small loads even in a reef aquarium.

I always recommend people to start with some old water just because of this - no water is particle free - if there is particles - especially inorganic particles - there is nitrification organisms in the old water column. Funny that you use one of the biggest proponents of bottled bacteria in order to prove your ideas

Do not use bad working hobby equipment in order to try to neglige what I´m saying. I have always use professional equipment in all of my works. I was one of the first pointing out that you can´t rely on the nitrate readings that is done with hobby equipment - at least 14 years ago - because nitrite can interfere with nitrate measurements.

hey look at my tank, no quarantine, that's what you should do is how I read your fifteen steps thread

Now I demand a excuse of this statement if you can´t show where in my article I even talk about QT? Are you as short in argument that you need to produce lies in order to defend yourself. There is not a word about QT either positive or negative in that article. People interesting of the truth can see the link below this post. The fifteen steps shows how you can do a complete nitrification cycle in three weeks - with fish - without measuring anything. Point 14 below

14) Do not test water parameters. Wait until the aquarium is a few months old or you have a lot of hard corals. Once the aquarium has established itself for a few months you can start testing if you want to. The most important thing to test is calcium and alkalinity if you have hard corals. Now it is also time to start--if you want— start testing and change the values of inorganic nutrients like PO4 and NO3 with one or another method.

Ironically, it is a hobby test that is quite reliable - namely nitrite tests. All of the reports of high and persistence nitrite concentrations is nothing else than a prove of stucked nitrification cycling process- The second step does not automatically starts. IMO - a good nitrification is a key factor the first year of an reef aquarium before the coral population is large enough to suckup most of the produced NH3/NH4. Infish only - is always needed if all stress factors should be minimized.

when conventions end without all sales being final, do they throw away the animals that were skip cycled into the convention? Nope, I’ve watched them disassemble tanks, rocks into styrofoam coolers, they skip cycle home just like we arrived.

You are ridiculous - the fish and inverts is going back to their cycled fully worked hometanks. As I said before - I have not only seen how they do - I have done it by myself many times.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Its because we want to establish reliable, cheap and consistent means of tank cycling

You are to late - it has already been done - here - and that's probably the reason why you attack me in that furious way you do.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[brandon429]

Let me read that link, one second. We should actually click and read links in order to change the response pacing, am reading one sec.

 

[brandon429]

findings:

solely your tank as an example, and quite a nice tank.



zero predicted start dates for new cyclers posting for help, didn't see any of those. you skirted being accountable for the start date on any tank lightly mentioned in discussions.



zero discussion on the amazing pattern of fish loss within 8 mos when cyclers choose no disease approach protocol.


So we must disagree across the board, but at least I read up to page 4 to get the current patterns.

your reef is very nice agreed

by page 4 on our cycling threads, how many cycles of other people's tanks have we logged? 10-30? 100% get a specific start date right when they post?

by omitting fish disease information in your post, and by never helping anyone with practical issues in the fish disease forum (instead leaving all works to Jay to manage as he does his zoo) you are able to write just about anything you want to write and with your tank as the flagship, it looks like it will work for everyone.


but lets click here and watch it ten days and find folks using your method to assist or begin with and avoid disease:

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

the difference is author-centric writing vs aquarist-centric writing where other people's tanks comprise 100% of all logged examples. you cant find my reef being mentioned or pictured at all, especially at the start.

 

[MnFish1]

IMO - the very large mistake Brandon is doing is that he mix together the term completed nitrifying cycle with a aquarium water that not kill fish. The nitrifying cycle is a scientific term that´s is defined - to manage a organisms to stay alive in a glass vase can be done in many ways - there the defined nitrification cycle is one way - although the most important in the long run at least in Fish Only and in the start before an ammonia consuming coral population is established in the aquarium. By the way - it would be a good thing to know if the fauna of nitrifying microorganisms differ between a fish only and a heavy coral populated reef aquarium- - something for @AquaBiomics to investigate?

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks @Lasse as usual you said it perfectly. I think a lot of the 'mental wrangling' most people do with cycling is wasted time - thus I agree with many of @brandon429 'end results'. I feel similar to @Paul B. The end results are 'true' - the theory behind them (to me) may not be.

 

[MnFish1]

I don't dispute any of this. Thanks.

1 thing regarding anemones. Do people really think the "wait 6 months to a year" is so your tank can mature? No! It's so you, the reefer, can learn how to take care of your tank. Yes, anemones can go into a tank day 1.

I believe its the same with coral. The key to keeping them is stability. Not 'time'. The person that has a 4 week old tank - with nothing but 2 clown fish and an anemone (and its a small tank) - is going to struggle much more with instability IMHO). I have no doubt that I could take a healthy anemone, set up a completely new tank with adequate flow - and dry rock - it would be fine - even just using a Hang on the back filter and a heater. With low bioload it would be fine. (and a good light as well)

 

[MnFish1]

by page 4 on our cycling threads, how many cycles of other people's tanks have we logged? 10-30? 100% get a specific start date right when they post?

by omitting fish disease information in your post, and by never helping anyone with practical issues in the fish disease forum (instead leaving all works to Jay to manage as he does his zoo) you are able to write just about anything you want to write and with your tank as the flagship, it looks like it will work for everyone.


but lets click here and watch it ten days and find folks using your method to assist or begin with and avoid disease:

the difference is author-centric writing vs aquarist-centric writing where other people's tanks comprise 100% of all logged examples. you cant find my reef being mentioned or pictured at all, especially at the start.

There is a ring of truth to this @brandon429. BUT - I basically use 'his method' (which is why I mentioned him). You seem to be also 'author-centric'. You're just pulling everyone else's 'build threads' together to 'prove' what you're trying to say. But - in reality - the topic is 'instant tank cycle' - not 'fish disease'. Right?

Your author-centric writing (and this is not to criticise, but try to explain perhaps why you get the feeling people don't believe/understand). IMHO - you use terms that are not 'common', or 'widely understood' or even 'well defined' - except by yourself. Like 'Skip cycle', 'Unassisted cycle', and several others. You know what you're trying to say - but the average reader (myself included at times) may be having a very difficult understanding what you mean - because 99 percent of people have not read the tens of thousands of posts you are linking to.

Second - it makes sense the the 'fish-disease forum' makes it 'seem' like everyone has a 'disease problem'. in fact - if you believe the polls, less than 1/2 of people here quarantine, and only a portion of those 'to it correctly' (according to my reading). Its like going to the sea-horse forum - and saying 'wow, it looks like everyone wants advice about seahorses', they must be the most popular? or am I wrong?

 

[brandon429]

I never viewed any exchange here as me attacking Lasse. I viewed them all as apples to oranges comparisons. What you use for proofing is not what I use for proofing in the tanks worked, we're simply using two different approaches for the same outcome.

our disagreements started here when I began on page one assessing cycles off pics, though I can't tell what your position was it didnt seem to support what was being logged at all. and still doesnt.


I never saw once in your thread example above that visual cues can be used to verify cycle completion. I havent seen any human write that, ever, in 20 years online tracking tank cycles. *I sure did see how you earned those same biomarkers by waiting a good while, and that this establishes potentially some element of disease control in your approach especially if you're advocating better feed quality than just pellets (Pauls disease approach involves top-level feeding, its a valid approach in my opinion too)

the reason we dont wait open-ended and instead prefer exacting dates is to:
1. instill confidence in a completed cycle vs always doubt its ability and be tempted to buy backups
2. to be able to relocate the tank in whole or in portions and meet a timely setup at the new place, or new tank upgrade, in order to control the original bioload on a certain carry date
3. To handle emergency tank setups for breaks/forced restarts due to power outages etc. To be able to move an expensive reef to a new home and meet that ready date is a big demand in online work requests
4. remind aquarists that just because bottle bac really does skip the cycle for bioload carry, disease risk is the real killer nobody bothers to write about in warning.

we show reasons why having the ability to be exacting and predictive in a start date is also beneficial. Not everyone can set up a reef like yours and leave it in place 10 years, they're on the move a lot.

I saw 0% of dry rock starts in your thread, yet 90% of todays cycle posts in the new tanks forum will be that kind. You're staying away from the challenging stuff it seems.

 

[howaboutme]

I believe its the same with coral. The key to keeping them is stability. Not 'time'. The person that has a 4 week old tank - with nothing but 2 clown fish and an anemone (and its a small tank) - is going to struggle much more with instability IMHO). I have no doubt that I could take a healthy anemone, set up a completely new tank with adequate flow - and dry rock - it would be fine - even just using a Hang on the back filter and a heater. With low bioload it would be fine. (and a good light as well)

Yes! Same w/ coral. Even SPS can go in day 1. Stability is key but stability is not the same as maturity. Stability = knowledge. But not only knowledge, it takes confidence. All of those take time and even some mistakes. Maturity is real but has nothing to do w/ when you put an anemone or SPS into your tank, IMHO. So many inconsistent advice on forums or FB that do not help this hobby. Alas, this is a tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[MnFish1]

recap of your claims vs mine:

1. Nitrite matters in reefing/cycling

it only matters in nitrate testing for the first couple months after a dry start, and we don't care what nitrate reads. even after nitrite compliance 90% of the stated nitrate reads are from api, do a search on api nitrate validity in comparison threads. the only param needed to know in reef tank cycling is ammonia control. Nitrate sampling doesnt just become accurate all of a sudden just because nitrite control has met the times from a cycling chart and beyond, its still completely ballparking and of no use in cycle tracking.

2. You said cycles have an expiration date where things undo, a bad consequence happens.

not only is that untrue, we show the opposite in MSteven's work: complete upcycling to completion unassisted within sixty days. the longer you wait withholding feed, the more cycled the system becomes due to environmental offerings you validated in NeonRabbit's thread but just not here conveniently.

3. Consistent stated start dates plus ability to inspect outcomes for new tank owners/cycle learners
You have not provided one, we're at 300.

4. Due to unclear positioning/writing for two years here, I cannot tell if you're against the ability to call a tank cycled off pictures/detail markers in the pics

we've been doing that exclusively here until we decided it was time to branch out and cover all cycles, dry starts included. It is 100% possible to call a cycle off tank pics and I can see why Eli was against that two years ago, before becoming aquabiomics/ $



5. No reef tank cycle has stalled, not ever, not one, still looking for a single example among the million cycles logged on google search. They're all test kit reporting issues, all of them, and none are dead fish. The consequences you constantly relay don't exist. The reason cycles take different lengths of time (but have a known ready date even before the build, can attend a convention if invited) is because each form of vector for bacteria has its own timescale, no reef cycle breaks these rules even if we overdose on ammonia a little too much


6. Using accurate ammonia meters has changed the landscape of cycling and evened the playing fields between sellers who withhold accurate information and buyers who seek fair and accurate information that doesnt always lead them back to a purchase. Before digitial nh3 verification, buyers were getting scammed at a massive rate by old cycling science.

7. old cycling science KILLS fish they hope to maintain

by removing the focus off disease control (hey look at my tank, no quarantine, that's what you should do is how I read your fifteen steps thread) old school cyclers replace the doubt in bacteria with a wait offer or a buy offer, and then in eight months after earning nitrite completion on api a disease has killed all their fish.

8. Old school cycling science rarely validates the ammonia line on a cycling chart, in fact they make money by causing doubt in the logged timeframes.




Old school cycling wants your time and your money, they peddle costly ways to measure bacteria, they peddle ways you can embellish bacteria if nitrite hasn't complied by month 3 (we showed that in links) and its all false false false.

I will slowly erase nitrite factoring in reef tank cycling for the benefit of aquarists, against the grain of the sales machine tricking them out of cash and clicks. Watch in the new tanks forum how peers now relay the true nitrite data to each other (ignore it)

slowly but surely, new cycling science will win out over the old ways and buyers won't be 24x7 sales targets from sly salesmen.

Assume you're talking to @Lasse - but Ill give some of these a shot:

1. I believe he was saying - that without 'control' of nitrite, you cannot say cycling (by the SCIENTIFIC definition of nitrification) is 'complete'. I think he has said that 5-6 times?

2. I never have heard that 'cycle's' undo - in this thread or anywhere else. BUT - here is an example that I believe leads me to doubt what you're saying. Take a tank that's had a stable bioload, live rock, corals, etc. Let the power go off for 6 hours and let 50% of the fish die. Power comes back on. In theory, the "cycled tank" should have no ammonia spike - even if the dead fish are left in the tank - since the 'tank is cycled'. Of course - in reality, the nitrifying bacteria cannot handle the new bioload/ammonia, etc. And this will likely result (if you don't take out the dead fish) - a 'new cycle' - as the new bioload is processed.

3. The idea that 'if something works', its all good has some merit. In other words - if you have 300 tanks, and all of the fish are healthy, corals doing well, etc - who cares about testing. The problem is - my GUESS (I haven't read all 300 examples) is that most of them involve people putting old rock, etc from one tank into another (I believe this is a 'skipped cycle') That to me seems like common sense.

4. From a science perspective, you cannot tell if a tank is 'cycled' using pictures. For example - take a goldfish bowl, no filter only a heater. Add a clownfish. Change the water 100 percent 2 times per day - is the fish doing well? Yes. Is it 'cycled'? Who knows?

6. My GUESS is that an extremely small number of people use 'accurate ammonia meters' - as compared to the numbers of tanks out there. You have some kind of thing against nitrite and nitrate testing. Well - I for one have NEVER owned an ammonia, nitrite or nitrate test kit - So - can I claim that ammonia is not an issue? No - I use a common sense approach. I add fish slowly, and I follow the instructions on the products I use. The money you save on 'bottled bacteria (not using it), is spent keeping a tank sitting empty for a month.

7. There is no evidence to what you're saying about disease control, QT, the frequency of problems etc. That I have seen.

8. Why? If someone wants to use Dr. Tim's - why not? Its like saying 'everyone that uses colorful PVC plumbing and all of the fancy wiring hidden away, etc, etc. - none of which are 'necessary' should be 'saved from themselves'.

9. In reality - using your 'thread' approach, you can argue almost everything. No one has the time/energy to go review every thread, right? To verify that there were actually 300 tanks that were set up the way you discuss and that NO one had a problem. Likewise, that there aren't tanks set up the same way that are posted in other threads that had problems - but they weren't posted to your thread. Do you see the point. Your method (to me) also seems 'author-centric'

 

[brandon429]

MN at least Lasse wrote an article for something about cycling

until you do I gotta leave the ignore button in place, you and I no longer click on writing style and its better if we dont interact much. I still check occasionally though to see if you left comfort zone a while/surprise me. Enumerating the number of cycle posts I'm estimating has no value, the value is what is logged that you can message any person involved and get a fast feedback on outcomes. Every post from me gets a clear start date, most get a recommend on disease preps, they're all told to ignore nitrite and never own the kit, and thousands of folks have saved money and learned to reef intently right from the start. that's whats on file. more than 300/