I'm combining an old tank with a new sterile system and would like some advice about reducing/treating potential diseases.

[rennjidk]

Ok, so, no need to reinvent the wheel. Standard QT procedures still apply. If you happened to have seen my post from the other day, this is in no way connected. I'm now asking for REAL advice about my actual systems and critiques of how I plan to combine them to treat and prevent the spread of disease.

Background: I currently have 3 nano tanks of varying age. My oldest system, a 13.5g Evo, was my learning curve. No quarantine of anything, undipped ebay corals and chaeto, Petco fish straight from the display tanks. As it stands, all of my fish appear healthy and have not shown any signs of disease as of yet (3 years) other than an internal parasite which I treated with GC about 18 months ago. I think I really lucked out with this system and I want to add it to my new large main tank.

The Game Plan:

Fish: The fish have already started their treatment of Prazipro in the Evo. I'm doing this for 6 days and then a second dose on day 7 for 24 hours. From there, they are getting a 45 minute aerated Formalin dip, followed by a 45 minute aerated Methylene blue dip. After this, they are going into a QT tank for 2 weeks in which I may feed food bound Metro (only if necessary). If there is no symptoms from there, I plan to add them to the DT which has already cycled by this point with ammonia and BB/Ocean Direct.

Macro: While the fish are doing their thing in the QT, I'm dipping the chaeto in Koral MD to remove any pods and setting it up in its own 5g bucket with lights and nitrate dosing for 16 days. After 16 days, it's getting a final dip in Koral MD and then rodi, before going into the display tank.

Inverts and Coral: I plan on letting the rest of the system run fishless for a full 6 weeks before dipping the corals in Koral MD, Frag Recover, and rodi. The Inverts and Coral will then be moved to the DT.

Conclusion and Expectations: My hope is that this will both prevent any Ich, Brook, Velvet, and most other diseases from entering my new system, as well as, treat any dormant diseases that my not be yet showing symptoms. Does this game plan cover 90% of my bases or do I need to modify it in some way? I'd rather take the time now than try to treat a whole system again in the future.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Fish: The fish have already started their treatment of Prazipro in the Evo. I'm doing this for 6 days and then a second dose on day 7 for 24 hours

Treat for 8 days and do a water change and then another 8 days. Adding to first dose will overdose. Also add aeration as prazi reduces oxygen a little

Ruby rally pro will address a whole array of issues also

 

[Calvin]

Ok, so, no need to reinvent the wheel. Standard QT procedures still apply. If you happened to have seen my post from the other day, this is in no way connected. I'm now asking for REAL advice about my actual systems and critiques of how I plan to combine them to treat and prevent the spread of disease.

Background: I currently have 3 nano tanks of varying age. My oldest system, a 13.5g Evo, was my learning curve. No quarantine of anything, undipped ebay corals and chaeto, Petco fish straight from the display tanks. As it stands, all of my fish appear healthy and have not shown any signs of disease as of yet (3 years) other than an internal parasite which I treated with GC about 18 months ago. I think I really lucked out with this system and I want to add it to my new large main tank.

The Game Plan:

Fish: The fish have already started their treatment of Prazipro in the Evo. I'm doing this for 6 days and then a second dose on day 7 for 24 hours. From there, they are getting a 45 minute aerated Formalin dip, followed by a 45 minute aerated Methylene blue dip. After this, they are going into a QT tank for 2 weeks in which I may feed food bound Metro (only if necessary). If there is no symptoms from there, I plan to add them to the DT which has already cycled by this point with ammonia and BB/Ocean Direct.

Macro: While the fish are doing their thing in the QT, I'm dipping the chaeto in Koral MD to remove any pods and setting it up in its own 5g bucket with lights and nitrate dosing for 16 days. After 16 days, it's getting a final dip in Koral MD and then rodi, before going into the display tank.

Inverts and Coral: I plan on letting the rest of the system run fishless for a full 6 weeks before dipping the corals in Koral MD, Frag Recover, and rodi. The Inverts and Coral will then be moved to the DT.

Conclusion and Expectations: My hope is that this will both prevent any Ich, Brook, Velvet, and most other diseases from entering my new system, as well as, treat any dormant diseases that my not be yet showing symptoms. Does this game plan cover 90% of my bases or do I need to modify it in some way? I'd rather take the time now than try to treat a whole system again in the future.

If you're really wanting to do it properly I would probably QT the fish for at least 6 weeks as that seems to be industry standard.

 

[rennjidk]

Fish: The fish have already started their treatment of Prazipro in the Evo. I'm doing this for 6 days and then a second dose on day 7 for 24 hours

Treat for 8 days and do a water change and then another 8 days. Adding to first dose will overdose. Also add aeration as prazi reduces oxygen a little

Ruby rally pro will address a whole array of issues also

I've never heard that before. Everything I've read said that its only effective for 24-48hrs which is why the bottle says not more often than 3-5 days. I will absolutely add more time in between if necessary. Also my returns and powerhead are all pointed at the surface to oxygenate.

 

[rennjidk]

If you're really wanting to do it properly I would probably QT the fish for at least 6 weeks as that seems to be industry standard.

It was my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong (happens a lot), that the additional 4 weeks was done as an "observational period" to check for signs of disease on new fish. If I'm not actively treating the QT with copper or anything to prevent reinfection, is there a reason to wait that long with fish that I've already owned for years and do not currently show any signs of infection? Again, I'm probably wrong so please explain it to me. What does a 6 week QT do for the fish that a 2 week QT after treatment does not?

 

[Calvin]

It was my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong (happens a lot), that the additional 4 weeks was done as an "observational period" to check for signs of disease on new fish. If I'm not actively treating the QT with copper or anything to prevent reinfection, is there a reason to wait that long with fish that I've already owned for years and do not currently show any signs of infection? Again, I'm probably wrong so please explain it to me. What does a 6 week QT do for the fish that a 2 week QT after treatment does not?

Because some diseases have a life cycle of up to 6 weeks if I'm not mistaking. Anytime you hear anything about QTing fish it's pretty much the gold standard to QT them for a minimum of 6 weeks, some even say longer.

Especially since Ich has 3 stages in it's life cycle. On the fish, then falling off which is the encysting stage, and then the stage where it's back in the water column and that's when it attaches itself to the fish again. Same reason why you do a 6 week fallow period on a tank if you go that route when you have a disease outbreak.

 

[Calvin]

That's also the reason why it's said to keep therapeutic copper levels for that time as well.

 

[rennjidk]

Because some diseases have a life cycle of up to 6 weeks if I'm not mistaking. Anytime you hear anything about QTing fish it's pretty much the gold standard to QT them for a minimum of 6 weeks, some even say longer.

Right. That's why I'm confused about what you're saying, because unless your are treating the QT tank with something to prevent reinfection, or doing something like the tank transfer method, wouldn't just extending the quarantine time only serve to increase their likelihood of reinfection? If a fish has a parasitic disease (and again, I don't believe mine do. I'm just doing this as a precaution since they can lay dormant without any symptoms), what would simply placing it in its own tank for 6 weeks do to treat the infection? Unless I'm just completely misunderstanding you.

 

[rennjidk]

That's also the reason why it's said to keep therapeutic copper levels for that time as well.

Well that answers it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Because some diseases have a life cycle of up to 6 weeks if I'm not mistaking. Anytime you hear anything about QTing fish it's pretty much the gold standard to QT them for a minimum of 6 weeks, some even say longer.

Especially since Ich has 3 stages in it's life cycle. On the fish, then falling off which is the encysting stage, and then the stage where it's back in the water column and that's when it attaches itself to the fish again. Same reason why you do a 6 week fallow period on a tank if you go that route when you have a disease outbreak.

Coppersafe treatment is a full 30 days at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand and also monitor ammonia levels

 

[Calvin]

Right. That's why I'm confused about what you're saying, because unless your are treating the QT tank with something to prevent reinfection, or doing something like the tank transfer method, wouldn't just extending the quarantine time only serve to increase their likelihood of reinfection? If a fish has a parasitic disease (and again, I don't believe mine do. I'm just doing this as a precaution since they can lay dormant without any symptoms), what would simply placing it in its own tank for 6 weeks do to treat the infection? Unless I'm just completely misunderstanding you.

There could be Ich or any other disease present in the existing tanks that you have but if the fish are fed well and have a strong immune system then they can fight it off and often times it could go unnoticed. so by QTing the fish even though you've had them a while will only help your success rate of not introducing anything into the new tank. Because even QTing them for 2 weeks and then putting them in another new tank after that is going to inevitably cause the fish some amount of stress and stress will lower their immune systems, especially if you're consolidating tank and putting fish together that have never been together before there's another stress factor. And unlike humans where we can get stressed out and then calm down and relax, fish do not deal with/metabolize stress hormones well and that's where you could see problems arise.

 

[Chrisv.]

I am totally on board with using formalin, but please do it carefully. This is strong stuff. It's a potent carcinogen. Aeration of a formalin bath should NOT be done inside your home. Do it outside on a cool day. Or at least in the garage with the door open.

 

[rennjidk]

And unlike humans where we can get stressed out and then calm down and relax, fish do not deal with/metabolize stress hormones well

I once went to a Burger King twice in the same week, and the dude at the drive thru window recognized me so I just moved to a different state. Maybe I'm a fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok, so, no need to reinvent the wheel. Standard QT procedures still apply. If you happened to have seen my post from the other day, this is in no way connected. I'm now asking for REAL advice about my actual systems and critiques of how I plan to combine them to treat and prevent the spread of disease.

Background: I currently have 3 nano tanks of varying age. My oldest system, a 13.5g Evo, was my learning curve. No quarantine of anything, undipped ebay corals and chaeto, Petco fish straight from the display tanks. As it stands, all of my fish appear healthy and have not shown any signs of disease as of yet (3 years) other than an internal parasite which I treated with GC about 18 months ago. I think I really lucked out with this system and I want to add it to my new large main tank.

The Game Plan:

Fish: The fish have already started their treatment of Prazipro in the Evo. I'm doing this for 6 days and then a second dose on day 7 for 24 hours. From there, they are getting a 45 minute aerated Formalin dip, followed by a 45 minute aerated Methylene blue dip. After this, they are going into a QT tank for 2 weeks in which I may feed food bound Metro (only if necessary). If there is no symptoms from there, I plan to add them to the DT which has already cycled by this point with ammonia and BB/Ocean Direct.

Macro: While the fish are doing their thing in the QT, I'm dipping the chaeto in Koral MD to remove any pods and setting it up in its own 5g bucket with lights and nitrate dosing for 16 days. After 16 days, it's getting a final dip in Koral MD and then rodi, before going into the display tank.

Inverts and Coral: I plan on letting the rest of the system run fishless for a full 6 weeks before dipping the corals in Koral MD, Frag Recover, and rodi. The Inverts and Coral will then be moved to the DT.

Conclusion and Expectations: My hope is that this will both prevent any Ich, Brook, Velvet, and most other diseases from entering my new system, as well as, treat any dormant diseases that my not be yet showing symptoms. Does this game plan cover 90% of my bases or do I need to modify it in some way? I'd rather take the time now than try to treat a whole system again in the future.

The spacing on praziquantel is in an attempt to kill any flukes hatching from eggs in the interim. A spacing of 8 or 9 days seems to work best.

I would skip doing this: 45 minute aerated Formalin dip, followed by a 45 minute aerated Methylene blue dip. Dips are never 100% effective, so if there is something that these dips would be removing from the fish at the end of the quarantine, these dips won't remove 100% of them. Methylene blue has little real use anyway. Formalin has its uses, especially for Brooklynella. I also use it early on, as a diagnostic tool (dip fish and then look at the settle dip water for parasites).

Jay

 

[rennjidk]

Formalin has its uses, especially for Brooklynella. I also use it early on, as a diagnostic tool

That was my plan, as I was dipping before going into the QT. You're suggesting that I skip this step, and instead just use copper in the QT to treat everything?

 

[rennjidk]

The spacing on praziquantel is in an attempt to kill any flukes hatching from eggs in the interim. A spacing of 8 or 9 days seems to work best.

I would skip doing this: 45 minute aerated Formalin dip, followed by a 45 minute aerated Methylene blue dip. Dips are never 100% effective, so if there is something that these dips would be removing from the fish at the end of the quarantine, these dips won't remove 100% of them. Methylene blue has little real use anyway. Formalin has its uses, especially for Brooklynella. I also use it early on, as a diagnostic tool (dip fish and then look at the settle dip water for parasites).

Jay

Actually, after doing a bit more research, I was thinking of using chloroquine phosphate for 30 days in a QT after finishing the Prazipro. Would this combination of treatment be better suited to what I'm trying to accomplish?

 

[rennjidk]

After doing even MORE reading and pricing out chloroquine, this is the new plan

Fish:
(in Evo) Prazipro day 1 and day 8, Move to QT day 10
(in QT) 30 days 2.0ppm Copper Power, dose Metro every 48hrs for first 10 days

Chaeto: Coral dip, quarentine lit bucket 16 days, coral dip and move to DT

Corals and Inverts: Fallow 60 days dosing No3 and Po4, move to DT

Does this seem a bit better at covering most bases?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

After doing even MORE reading and pricing out chloroquine, this is the new plan

Fish:
(in Evo) Prazipro day 1 and day 8, Move to QT day 10
(in QT) 30 days 2.0ppm Copper Power, dose Metro every 48hrs for first 10 days

Chaeto: Coral dip, quarentine lit bucket 16 days, coral dip and move to DT

Corals and Inverts: Fallow 60 days dosing No3 and Po4, move to DT

Does this seem a bit better at covering most bases?

Looks good.

The metronidazole overlaps the copper treatment, and is a poorer choice, so I would skip it.

Jay