ICP Test DIY Elements - Going Mad Scientist

[mitch91175]

Well, you're going to have to define "respective measurements" for each element, but I'll proceed with some assumptions.

I frequently help out with the math for a scenario that usually goes like this: "I want to know how many grams "g" per liter of compound "c" I need in order to make a solution that will increase the concentration of element "e" by "p" PPM (mg/L) for every "v" mL of solution that I add to my "t" gallon tank."

The only information usually missing from the question is the atomic mass "a" of element e, and the molecular mass "m" of compound c. Once we look those up (Google is your friend), then we can do the following:

g = m / a * p / v * t * 3.7854

The "* 3.7854" is obviously a conversion of tank volume "t" from gallons to liters.

Let's see how this would work for your sodium fluoride supplementation. Since you didn't specify "p" for any of the elements you intend to dose, I'll make the assumption that in this case you want to increase your tank's F by 0.94 mg/L ("PPM" -- from the "-0.94" difference in the report you shared above). So, you have the following values for the variables:

m = 41.98817 (google "sodium fluoride mw")
a = 18.9984 (google "fluorine mw")
p = 0.94 (desired F increase in mg/L, or PPM)
v = 100 (100 mL to achieve the increase -- my assumption)
t = 240 (gallons in tank)

So, g = 41.98817 / 18.9984 * 0.94 / 100 * 240 * 3.7854 = 18.87, meaning a solution containing 18.87 grams of NaF in 1 liter of water will raise the F level of a 240 gallon tank by 0.94 mg/L for every 100 mL that is added.

Let's think this through: Our stock solution will contain 18.87 * 18.9984 / 41.98817 = 8.5399 grams of F per liter. So, 100 mL will contain 0.85399 grams, or 853.99 mg of F. Adding that to 240 gallons, or 240 * 3.7854 = 908.5 liters of water will result in 853.99 / 908.5 = 0.94 mg/L of F.

I leave the other calculations to the reader as an exercise.

Be careful when dealing with compounds that may have different levels of hydration; anhydrous CaCl2, CaCl2*2H2O, etc., each have different values for "m". Also be careful when there is more than one atom of "e" in the compound -- you then have to multiply "a" by the number of atoms present, e.g., for vanadium pentoxide (V2O5), then you have to multiply the "a" value by 2. Also, pay attention to the solubility of the compounds you're working with in water, and stay well below their solubility at 0C.

EDIT: I have made a number of edits to correct a few things since I originally posted this. It think it's correct and needs no further edits now.

Thanks a bunch for for formula and explanation. Gonna take a stab at some mixes.

 

[mitch91175]

Is this what your using for PO4?

Mi412 Low Range Phosphate Photometer - Milwaukee

The Milwaukee MI412 Low Range Phosphate Photometer is very simple to use and will give you readings on a large, easy to read LCD screen. The MI412 gives super fast results with a very high level of accuracy with the ability to give reproducible readings. Large LCD Display Reliable, Repeatable...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

yeah that’s the one. 100 test super cheap.

 

[mitch91175]

I saw one of Jonas post on the Facebook users members forum...

(Needed to asked him a question anyways, and he responded back in a matter of hours.)

...His calcium and nitrates were nailing his ICP reports with the Mastronic.

I'm not buying one, but wonder how soon he'll have it in production.

Yeah I've been following those result test that he's been posting on the Facebook group. Pretty impressive. Waiting to get more details in regards to the reagents, etc. I was told that it's off-the-shelf reagents so wondering which ones they are using for the testing.

 

[GoVols]

Yeah I've been following those result test that he's been posting on the Facebook group. Pretty impressive. Waiting to get more details in regards to the reagents, etc. I was told that it's off-the-shelf reagents so wondering which ones they are using for the testing.

Yeah,
I know he based the Alkatronic to salifert for alk, and I learned the end point color from Jim.

But, Jonas is sure tight lipped on his Mastronic off the self kits.

Thanks for taking the time for what you use, for your Ps.

I'll grab one down the line.

Keep us in the loop as you go, within this thread.

 

[Sharir]

When you're mixing be careful to watch for presipitation

 

[Sharir]

After you have everything nailed down you should try making a balanced mixture of these elements(something like the red sea elements) I bet the recipe you make will be pretty cool and awesome... All hail mad scientists!

 

[mitch91175]

After you have everything nailed down you should try making a balanced mixture of these elements(something like the red sea elements) I bet the recipe you make will be pretty cool and awesome... All hail mad scientists!

I saw that someone else has mixed their own in another thread somewhere. Ideally, I'd like to get to a point where I know what my tank is consuming at nearly the same rate and make something to dose those together.

 

[Sharir]

Do you know the name of that thread?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After you have everything nailed down you should try making a balanced mixture of these elements(something like the red sea elements) I bet the recipe you make will be pretty cool and awesome... All hail mad scientists!

I agree that a "balanced" solution doesn't really have meaning. One either needs to know or guess the rate of decline of these in a given or average tank, and from looking at the ICP results for many folks, there is no standard "need" ratio that fits everyone. That's why Triton sells them all independently.

 

[mitch91175]

I agree that a "balanced" solution doesn't really have meaning. One either needs to know or guess the rate of decline of these in a given or average tank, and from looking at the ICP results for many folks, there is no standard "need" ratio that fits everyone. That's why Triton sells them all independently.

That’s what I feel too @Randy Holmes-Farley. Dosing them based upon calcium uptake is a flawed principle for the trace elements it seems from the ICP results.

 

[Sharir]

I think one way you could find a ratio to mix your elements to make a 'all in one ' solution would be to work with the specific types of coral in your reef tank to make a mixture specially designed for your system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

make a mixture specially designed for your system.

I agree one could do that based on test results, but I do not think one can arrive at the need based on knowing coral types. I'm not even sure corals are the main user of many elements, such as iron and manganese.

 

[Ellery]

Any updates on this endeavor?

 

[GoVols]

Any updates on this endeavor?

tagging

 

[akaimal]

Tagging along

 

[MikeTheNewbie]

How are things going @mitch91175 ? Still DIY'ing? Is the livestock still alive? I checked your FB and looks like you haven't posted in a while. Hope things are going OK.

I'm doing some research on Fluoride. Looks like I'll either need to buy $40 worth of that element or maybe buy a $6 bottle of Sodium fluoride. Not sure if that is the right element, I've read that it is soluble in water but looks like a very hazardous thing to play around with. Any feedback?