I am 100% against Marine Depot's new financing options

[WhiskeyCoffee]

I 100% disagree. We always find someone else to blame. People blamed banks for the housing crisis. If you have a calculator, you can figure out what you can/cannot afford. People blame casinos when someone loses their house because of a gambling problem. Let's take responsibility for our own actions good and bad.

No one is blaming anyone for money issues. What we are comparing is whether or not it's wiser to put a large purchase on a credit card where you can get rewards (many cards offer them) or just save up the cash. I would never advocate for someone to finance $1000 at 20% for 12 months. That is just insane when there are so many people right here on this forum selling stuff for great deals.

 

[Reef Pets]

10 - 30%



What's the difference between Affirm and a credit card? Well, for one many credit companies offer lower interest rates as well as warranties and fraud protection on purchases. I remember I called my credit card company and complained because a website billed me for three months after I cancelled my membership. She put me on a party line and I listened to her rip the customer service person a new one and demand that I be refunded my money before they file a complaint. I bet Affirm won't do that for you. My mom has flown across the country numerous times for free because she puts large purchases on her Sky Miles card then pays them off immediately. My dad does the same with his Cabela's card and every year uses his reward points towards free stuff.

Advocating for Affirm is like telling someone to buy furniture from Aaron's or Rent-A-Center. They cater towards people who have little/no credit and use that to their advantage. There is no 'reward' when paying 30% APR for an aquarium.

Your credit cards offers lower than possibly 10%? Most credit cards are in the 20% range. I had to look, Affirm offers fraud protection.
Of course there are points benefits but again, not all cards offer points or skymiles.
I don't advocate affirm or any credit card company because I like staying away from all credit sources when possible.

We are talking aquarium related only, not day to day buying as you pointed out what your parents do. Unless you have a massive reef tank there are very little recurring points to gain rewards. Yes credit cards for daily purchases have there benefits but again, this is for something only aquarium based.

Free market, use it if you like and avoid if you dislike.. I won't be using it but also don't see if as being much different than any other credit source other than a possible higher interest rate.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

Your credit cards offers lower than possibly 10%? Most credit cards are in the 20% range. I had to look, Affirm offers fraud protection.

Thanks to the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act all debts I had prior to enlisting were reduced to 6%. Typically in order to get less than 10% interest a person must have a credit score above 680 so I'm willing to bet that most people going through Affirm are going to get between 20-30% as well as the finance charge.

As of Q3 2016, the average interest rate on credit cards was 12.51%. (source)

We are talking aquarium related only, not day to day buying as you pointed out what your parents do. Unless you have a massive reef tank there are very little recurring points to gain rewards. Yes credit cards for daily purchases have there benefits but again, this is for something only aquarium based.

Agreed - however, if you already have a good credit card with decent perks and you're about to spend some buku bucks, why not reap the benefits? Also I think you're underestimating how much the average reefer spend maintaining their tank - salt, additives, DI resin, etc etc... It adds up to potentially hundreds if not thousands per year.

 

[Devaji]

humm interesting read...
I'll my 2 cents. cuz I guess I can..haha
I am in the middle of this debate. I agree that for some ( very few) it might be the way to go. however I agree if you are going to put something on credit might as well get points or earn some other benefit. for me this MD option does not work but I am glad they as a company have the right to offer it and reefers to make there own choice. freedom after all.

I wise man own said you must learn to live comfortably in your purse. no mater what hobby or life style we humans get in to there will always be something more just if I had that X toy or X gadget i will be happy, this stems from a deep misunderstanding that happiness & fulfillment comes from outside rather than an inward experience of the natural joyful expression of being alive. not saying that we cant have nice things but if we take an honest look at our life we often find the moments of our greatest joy is not linked to materiel "stuff"

like all things in life and in our reefs we must have balance. we must know our budget and reef happy with in it. there are often times I wish I had X coral or X thing for my system but then I remember why I reef in the 1st place as for me I find it peaceful and expression of my artistic nature so why would I make it stressful. in the end what ever we do it cost LIFE. we have limited time on this planet and limited resources so SPEND it wisely my friends as the clock is ticking for us all and the only thing that is guaranteed in life is one day the body will go back to the earth...

so spend your time, money and energy very wisely as IT IS YOUR LIFE YOU ARE SPENDING...

 

[Reef Pets]

Thanks to the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act all debts I had prior to enlisting were reduced to 6%. Typically in order to get less than 10% interest a person must have a credit score above 680 so I'm willing to bet that most people going through Affirm are going to get between 20-30% as well as the finance charge.

As of Q3 2016, the average interest rate on credit cards was 12.51%. (source)



Agreed - however, if you already have a good credit card with decent perks and you're about to spend some buku bucks, why not reap the benefits? Also I think you're underestimating how much the average reefer spend maintaining their tank - salt, additives, DI resin, etc etc... It adds up to potentially hundreds if not thousands per year.

The money spent generally depends on how large of a tank. We are talking probably hundreds of dollars with a small percentage being a thousands.
What does a couple hundred points a year have as a reward.
You are solely rating Affirm off of 30% interest and that's not the facts. It's credit based just like a credit card. Yes some cards have great benefits while other just have high interest. None of this is apples to apples. I bet I can apply for Affirm and get close to if not 10% interest with my credit score in the high 700s which would be a better interest rate than any of my cards.

Nothing is factual other than this thread being great advertising for Marine Depot and Affirm.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

The money spent generally depends on how large of a tank. We are talking probably hundreds of dollars with a small percentage being a thousands.
What does a couple hundred points a year have as a reward.
You are solely rating Affirm off of 30% interest and that's not the facts. It's credit based just like a credit card. Yes some cards have great benefits while other just have high interest. None of this is apples to apples. I bet I can apply for Affirm and get close to if not 10% interest with my credit score in the high 700s which would be a better interest rate than any of my cards.

Nothing is factual other than this thread being great advertising for Marine Depot and Affirm.

You yourself just said you have a credit score in the high 700s. 42% of people have a credit score of less than 700.[1] So that's 134,820,000 people in America who will not be offered the 10% APR.

• [1] http://www.money-zine.com/financial-planning/debt-consolidation/fico-credit-scores/

 

[Valkyrie]

I think the point is, why worry about what others do with their money?
If you don't like Marine Depot's offer, then don't use it. But it's not up to you to decide whether or not it's a good idea for someone else.
If it's that big of a deal to anyone, then they can start up their own financial counseling type business, charge $200 a person, even offer group sessions and make bank for the next tank.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

I think the point is, why worry about what others do with their money?
If you don't like Marine Depot's offer, then don't use it. But it's not up to you to decide whether or not it's a good idea for someone else.
If it's that big of a deal to anyone, then they can start up their own financial counseling type business, charge $200 a person, even offer group sessions and make bank for the next tank.

Because fishkeeping is a community of people who help, learn, educate, and grow. I hate to see the hobby come to this where manufacturers are rewarded for charging exorbitant prices for products and people feel so desperate to have these things that they're willing to finance them.

Also, why is financing anything a bad idea, especially when you can't afford it in the first place?

Roughly 1 in 4 U.S. adults don’t always pay their bills on time, according to the NFCC’s 2015 Financial Literacy Survey, sponsored by NerdWallet. Among U.S. adults ages 18 to 34, just over half are paying their bills on time and have no accounts in collection.[1]

• [1] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/finance/paying-bills-time-survey-shows-bad/

 

[zchauvin]

Lol at this whole thread. I'm 24 and know more 40-50 year olds with more debt than I'd ever get into. All these people making $50k, spending $80,00 a year and living check to check. Who cares if a company offers financing, and why the heck would you buy anything on a credit card even if you are only getting charged 9% interest when you can do 12 month no interest. Some of the dumbest things I've ever read were in these last two pages.

 

[Reef Pets]

You yourself just said you have a credit score in the high 700s. 42% of people have a credit score of less than 700.[1] So that's 134,820,000 people in America who will not be offered the 10% APR.

• [1] http://www.money-zine.com/financial-planning/debt-consolidation/fico-credit-scores/

That's my point. It's an individual decision.
It may benefit the other 42%. That's a high percentage to accommodate.

 

[Valkyrie]

Because fishkeeping is a community of people who help, learn, educate, and grow. I hate to see the hobby come to this where manufacturers are rewarded for charging exorbitant prices for products and people feel so desperate to have these things that they're willing to finance them.

Also, why is financing anything a bad idea, especially when you can't afford it in the first place?

• [1] https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/finance/paying-bills-time-survey-shows-bad/

I get what you're saying, I really do. But you can't blame the company for wanting to make money, that's what they do. The fact that some people think they have to have the most expensive toys in order to call themselves a reefer is terribly sad and disappointing. I can't afford $2500 lighting, heck not even $250 lighting. I make do and do pretty good with what I can. But I can't make anyone listen.

Some of the dumbest things I've ever read were in these last two pages.

That's pretty harsh. I wouldn't call anyone dumb for their choices. It could be drugs, booze and prostitutes...there's many that take credit cards and there's a reason. Because it works.
Instead, we're talking about reefing. I would CAUTION anyone about financing a hobby, any hobby. But that's the best I can do. It's none of my business. I can say don't do it and I will. Unless you have clear plan and know exactly how you're going to do it, don't. I don't begrudge any business for wanting to make money. I do find the over-pricing ridiculous and shop at Amazon and Craigslist because of it. LOL

If you want to do it...fine, accept the consequences. If you know you can pay it off in 6 months, fine. If you can get it for 10% APR AND pay it off in 6 months, GRAND! Go for it. But if you're not thinking and instead you're acting on ego or a feeling. Then back away slowly.
In the end, you'll do what you want. Go in peace.

 

[WhiskeyCoffee]

I get what you're saying, I really do. But you can't blame the company for wanting to make money, that's what they do. The fact that some people think they have to have the most expensive toys in order to call themselves a reefer is terribly sad and disappointing. I can't afford $2500 lighting, heck not even $250 lighting. I make do and do pretty good with what I can. But I can't make anyone listen.



That's pretty harsh. I wouldn't call anyone dumb for their choices. It could be drugs, booze and prostitutes...there's many that take credit cards and there's a reason. Because it works.
Instead, we're talking about reefing. I would CAUTION anyone about financing a hobby, any hobby. But that's the best I can do. It's none of my business. I can say don't do it and I will. Unless you have clear plan and know exactly how you're going to do it, don't. I don't begrudge any business for wanting to make money. I do find the over-pricing ridiculous and shop at Amazon and Craigslist because of it. LOL

If you want to do it...fine, accept the consequences. If you know you can pay it off in 6 months, fine. If you can get it for 10% APR AND pay it off in 6 months, GRAND! Go for it. But if you're not thinking and instead you're acting on ego or a feeling. Then back away slowly.
In the end, you'll do what you want. Go in peace.

I think we agree on more points than we realize - especially this one.

I do find the over-pricing ridiculous and shop at Amazon and Craigslist because of it. LOL

 

[FirstContact]

I'm with the OP. Financing for hobby stuff????? It's like renting a TV to own and paying more in the long run. Never done it. Do a credit card, 30 days no interest and then pay it off.

Shame on MD.

 

[Valkyrie]

I think we agree on more points than we realize - especially this one.

lol and you're competition on our local FB & Craigslist[emoji12]

 

[Flippers4pups]

I took over a year to build my current system and DIY'd most of it. Did it cost a lot in the long run, YES, but I spread the cost out to afford it. Now the chemicals, salt, RO/DI filters, food.....etc.... I can afford when needed, not a whole system and diffidently not on my credit card!

(In my earlier post I meant to say " if I bought "my" aquarium stuff with a credit card, my wife would have disowned me"!)

It's about personal discipline with ones finances. My wife, grown kids, house, cars, utilities, food, insurance......come first, not my hobby.

 

[Elder1945]

This is my opinion

How is it Marine Depot issue if you overspend..... I think this might open the door to some people who can't afford this hobby. The interest rates to me are astronomical but for some people they may need this to buy or obtain what they want.. They are not offering credit for food or anything essential for life that I might have a issue with... They are offering financing for a hobby..

I have a issue with people blaming company's for there own decisions.. I own a company and employ quite a few people... Whenever something goes wrong financially 9 out of 10 of my employees blame me... Why.... I did not make the decisions and I can't pay everyone $100,000 sorry..
This is a huge underling issue with how the world works now.. It is everyone fault except mine..

Did anyone think if Marine Depot does 10% more in sales from this they will most likely hire more employees? I bet that new guy will be quite happy about this...

I enjoy reading peoples opinions on this as it is a interesting subject.

 

[Velcro]

I LOL'd when I saw the email, but I couldn't care less how people get themselves in debt.

Not sure why you'd waste your time worrying about people that fall into this trap.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I just keep thinking how ironic it is that this thread is absolutely GREAT publicity for Marine Depot and their new financing program...even if that wasn't the threads intent. In fact, I kind of wonder how many people weren't even aware of the financing option (like me) until they saw this thread.

My take on it is pretty much identical to everything that Gary (@Reef Pets) has said already. This financing option is no different than putting the items on a credit card, and for the most part, this thread has not fairly compared apples to apples, but instead generally gives the best possible image of credit cards (generally discussing credit cards as if they all offer points systems, assuming that all points systems are actually good deals, giving best possible APR for credit cards in the discussion...) while making faulty assumptions about Affirm (such as assuming they offer no fraud protection...which they do and discussing their credit rates based on the highest end of their range). I'm not going to encourage anyone to go take out a loan to get a reef tank, but I'm thankful we all have the freedom to do so. I also can't fault Marine Depot for finding ways to allow their customers to purchase their products...that's just good business sense.

 

[smokin'reefer]

I think it is great that Marine Depot is offering this.
I've read a lot of threads where people are struggling to have the right equipment to properly take care of their tanks. This should give them and others an opportunity to do this hobby properly.
I also think WHISKEYCOFFEE has a great point about throwing up a warning flag about taking on debt. Easy financing can be a very self destructive enticement for many.
It seems to me though, that people in this hobby tend to have a little higher IQ. (excluding myself. Probably a stretch) This is a very challenging hobby that requires a little more thought than collecting buttons (not meant to insult button collectors)or some other hobbies that are fulfilling but not as challenging.
In my own situation, I just bought a new Reefer 350, lights, powerheads, return pump and live rock to get a new fowlr tank going. Everything was paid in cash. I won't have enough for a new skimmer til bonuses come out next month. Why not get Marine Depot to front me the skimmer til I get accounts refilled next month. No problem. Probably wont, but just the same.
Marine Depot offering this isn't as bad an influence as somebody advertising putting whiskey in coffee. I wouldn't do that either. As intriguing as it sounds. Just my .02. [emoji41]

 

[Jrco226]

CASH CASH CASH ALL DAY EVERY DAY