How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

[brandon429]

And you have the worlds most sensitive reef tank mine canary


the fabled lysmata shrimp from finding nemo
the specific one from the movie

they will not put up with one iota of mischemistry

not one, he’ll keel over after one day in bad water plus that’s a beautiful high surface area, very high surface area boosted setup with corals and again laser clear water so clear the tank looks empty, your biofilter meets every inspection point. thank you for adding the test kits reads, I’m unable to discern any status for the nitrite and nitrate only because step one / ammonia isn’t even agreeable with the known timeline of that tank and all it’s life doing well. Fish disease losses are common heck today alone we had several new posts in the chem forum and in the general forums for similar losses, unrelated to cycle concerns. I flat out don’t know why the tests read differently than how it looks, guess we can just see how long the conflict continues, keep us updated with pics n tests we want to learn about whatever dynamic is causing this.


there is not a thing wrong with that reef’s cycle, it just needs re fallowing again to start clean for the next round of fish. I can’t think of anything weaker than a lysmata, maybe a linkia star but those die anyway in cycled tanks at least lysmatas will have a good lifespan to match their normal busy daily tasks and entertainment they provide

 

[Ocypode sinensis]

And you have the worlds most sensitive reef tank mine canary


the fabled lysmata shrimp from finding nemo
the specific one from the movie

they will not put up with one iota of mischemistry

not one, he’ll keel over after one day in bad water plus that’s a beautiful high surface area, very high surface area boosted setup with corals and again laser clear water so clear the tank looks empty, your biofilter meets every inspection point. thank you for adding the test kits reads, I’m unable to discern any status for the nitrite and nitrate only because step one / ammonia isn’t even agreeable with the known timeline of that tank and all it’s life doing well. Fish disease losses are common heck today alone we had several new posts in the chem forum and in the general forums for similar losses, unrelated to cycle concerns. I flat out don’t know why the tests read differently than how it looks, guess we can just see how long the conflict continues, keep us updated with pics n tests we want to learn about whatever dynamic is causing this.


there is not a thing wrong with that reef’s cycle, it just needs re fallowing again to start clean for the next round of fish.

Umm I quarantine every single fish using TTM method and I'm confident with my quarantine procedure. I even quarantine the inverts: they went to a fishless tank for 2 weeks + or they molt. So I don't think a fallow period is needed.
Another quick question: should I do some extra WC or should I just stick with my Friday night 5-gallon change?

 

[brandon429]

For sure stick with what’s working no need to change course, should the water ever begin to cloud more than normal we could save increased work needs for that marker or if the cuc and shrimp ever look agitated

 

[Ocypode sinensis]

For sure stick with what’s working no need to change course, should the water ever begin to cloud more than normal we could save increased work needs for that marker or if the cuc and shrimp ever look agitated

roger roger

 

[brandon429]

You also covered extensive disease preps this is a perfect tank design for us to get to track, nice job thanks tons

 

[scottworland]

So four days after adding the snail/hermit/coral frag everything is looking great. Did a 40ltr water change yesterday and added the clowns to the tank.

I will wait until tomorrow to test my parameters

Sooooo...... I'm too attached to my clowns to test this straight away but I have acclimated a hermit, an astraea snail and a little frag of toxic green Kenyan tree I had. Polyps are out on the frag and the crab and snail are off exploring and have been fine for the past couple of hours. Let's see what the next couple of days bring. I'll keep you posted!

So four days after adding the snail/hermit/coral frag everything is looking great. Did a 40ltr water change yesterday and added the clowns to the tank today and have switched my skimmer on.

I will wait until tomorrow to test my parameters again but post water change ammonia was zero and nitrate had come down to 20ppm. Thanks for the advice and guidance Brandon.

 

[brandon429]

I'm so happy so see updates, these perfect pictures of clear water plus that's a prudent workup to full bioload carry/ making sure mini bioloads are carried then coming soon: full reef!

 

[scottworland]

I'm so happy so see updates, these perfect pictures of clear water plus that's a prudent workup to full bioload carry/ making sure mini bioloads are carried then coming soon: full reef!

Yep as this is an upgrade I have a full reef tank (pics below) to move across so I'm going to give it a month to bed in then I will be moving all my corals across. Further updates will follow.....

 

[brandon429]

100% confident, not 99%, will work great and you really did proceed to grow that reef beyond its walls ha nice

 

[Ocypode sinensis]

some interesting updates, yesterday I did a 5 gallon WC, about 1/3 to 1/4 of the total water body, and here's my readings before WC:

 

[Ocypode sinensis]

and here's my reading after the WC: NO2 just went out like a puff of smoke, and I got more nitrates.

 

[brandon429]

We dont use nitrite measures here, all other cycling threads do though

the reason we don’t is so that we can pattern inspect what happens by never factoring nitrite in any display tank. Digital levels can be posted just for the interest in comparing readings to a cycle charts nitrite line, but those are rare. Accurate digital nitrite readings are rare, Lasse is the only one on the board I know with such a kit. The non digital kits are subject to all manner of misreads, and a few readings are correct. We can’t know which ones are correct vs wrong without a digital proof on the same water sample. And after all those steps, we already expect nitrite to be present in nearly all reefs here since these are quicker than usual reef starts-to find true nitrite in any reef in this thread is expected.



All other cycle threads use nitrite compliance to decide a start date, by us excluding the measure we provide contrasting data for the comparative study on assigned start dates / bioload carry dates.



If we consider nitrite here from non digital kits, we fall into the same mess that is most other cycling threads—fear of bacterial weakness.


we deal in full tank pics as proof of any action…if things remain alive then the water change was positive vs negative effect. The tank as a whole view vs the micro focus on non digital test kits, that’s key in cycle assessment.

So for the nitrite reading it’s factored as not applicable for reasons listed on page one post one

for the nitrate, it ranges tank to tank and all levels are fine. Paul B’s old display tank runs 150 ppm at times, sustained, carrying all common lps and sps corals. Zeovit tanks in Germany run 1-2 ppm nitrate using precision controls, that whole 100 ppm range shows how adaptable our reefs are to nitrate levels. The test isn’t likely accurate for nitrate above due to the expected presence of nitrite in new dry start systems, so the nitrate test above is deemed a full on misread, we don’t know what your nitrate is but it’s levels wont matter here one way or another. all post cycle reefs can endure any % of water changes we want to use, as long as poured back water isn’t kicking up filthy waste stores from the sand or rock, some tanks are way past due export work and any form of disturbance can upset stratifications

your tank is so new it won’t have anything dangerous in the sand, so any degree of water change you want to do is harmless. If you want to test for nitrite cease using that kit, and buy the $$ digital nitrite Hanna checker

 

[Ocypode sinensis]

We dont use nitrite measures here, all other cycling threads do though

the reason we don’t is so that we can pattern inspect what happens by never factoring nitrite in any display tank. Digital levels can be posted just for the interest in comparing readings to a cycle charts nitrite line, but those are rare. Accurate digital nitrite readings are rare, Lasse is the only one on the board I know with such a kit. The non digital kits are subject to all manner of misreads, and a few readings are correct. We can’t know which ones are correct vs wrong without a digital proof on the same water sample. And after all those steps, we already expect nitrite to be present in nearly all reefs here since these are quicker than usual reef starts-to find true nitrite in any reef in this thread is expected.



All other cycle threads use nitrite compliance to decide a start date, by us excluding the measure we provide contrasting data for the comparative study on assigned start dates / bioload carry dates.



If we consider nitrite here from non digital kits, we fall into the same mess that is most other cycling threads—fear of bacterial weakness.


we deal in full tank pics as proof of any action…if things remain alive then the water change was positive vs negative effect. The tank as a whole view vs the micro focus on non digital test kits, that’s key in cycle assessment.

So for the nitrite reading it’s factored as not applicable for reasons listed on page one post one

for the nitrate, it ranges tank to tank and all levels are fine. Paul B’s old display tank runs 150 ppm at times, sustained, carrying all common lps and sps corals. Zeovit tanks in Germany run 1-2 ppm nitrate using precision controls, that whole 100 ppm range shows how adaptable our reefs are to nitrate levels. The test isn’t likely accurate for nitrate above due to the expected presence of nitrite in new dry start systems, so the nitrate test above is deemed a full on misread, we don’t know what your nitrate is but it’s levels wont matter here one way or another. all post cycle reefs can endure any % of water changes we want to use, as long as poured back water isn’t kicking up filthy waste stores from the sand or rock, some tanks are way past due export work and any form of disturbance can upset stratifications

your tank is so new it won’t have anything dangerous in the sand, so any degree of water change you want to do is harmless. If you want to test for nitrite cease using that kit, and buy the $$ digital nitrite Hanna checker

Yeah I reckon that, I just wanna show how a single WC wipes out the NO2 (everything's doing fine, just added a CBB and he's happily eating)

 

[brandon429]

Hey what’s your plan for the uglies, thats always the next predicted headache for such a fine start

it always begins with a patch of X or a tuft of X that isn’t imposing or bad but for some setups the mass takes on more mass cyclically and becomes quite a test for the system

some ride it out to the bad peak, try and ride the growth peak back down into coralline and coral rocks. Some never get back down, there are some 1-2 ur tank losses on file due to willing takedown from X invasion, so it’s prudent to brainstorm options. How will you handle invasion challenges

 

[brandon429]

@Ocypode sinensis


again id like to thank you for having such clear disease preps in place it’s the biggest challenge we will face as a community in the coming year, clearly cycling won’t be

I was able to link your preps and the basic attitude / heck yes I’m prepped against disease/ to new cyclers lately and that’s exactly the change we need to see to reduce losses in 2022.

hows your cycle coming / all set still?

 

[Ocypode sinensis]

@Ocypode sinensis


again id like to thank you for having such clear disease preps in place it’s the biggest challenge we will face as a community in the coming year, clearly cycling won’t be

I was able to link your preps and the basic attitude / heck yes I’m prepped against disease/ to new cyclers lately and that’s exactly the change we need to see to reduce losses in 2022.

hows your cycle coming / all set still?

Still got Nitrite in the water, but everything's doing fine, water is crystal clear and no diatoms/cyano or any of those uglies.
Tiny critters began to show up on the glass, IDK what they are by they look like a tiny slug.
Gorgonians are doing great, and I feed them twice a day with reef blizzard.
Added a CBB and she's eating happily.
I've also added some XL bio pellets to my filter.

 

[brandon429]

That’s 100% perfect feedback for us. Also let us know if the nitrite takes much longer than 25 days to clear not that it’s worrisome, or affecting animals, but since it’s being measured let’s see how well the kit reflects the avg nitrite drop date from a common cycling chart. If you get to day 40 with it still there Im not buying the kit is accurate, but anywhere around 25-30 days for a notable near zero nitrite is about right among charted trends.

 

[discostew]

So I’ve been watching this thread. I haven’t yet started my cycle but i plan on starting a 45 gallon tank with dry rock, live sand, using real seawater. I have dr toms and bio spira at the ready. Just some clarification, once i get rock/sand/water in the tank, i can add Tim’s and spira. Will check ammonia daily. What I’m unsure about is how often and what to feed.

 

[brandon429]

Excellent plan after a couple adjustments, thanks for posting. I’ll give what I think the bioload carry date will be, that’s our ongoing gag here. To remove testing headaches and aim everyone into disease preps is what we do-

new cycling science knows what your cycle end date will be before the tank is even built (that way if you were taking the tank to a marine aquarium convention, you’d meet their start date without a stall)

old cycling science uses cheap test kits guaranteed to misread to scare you into waiting fifty days to begin still skipping all disease preps, we don’t like that way here


That’s a no test cycle approach you have planned above
we wouldn’t want you to test daily for ammonia and report it unless the ammonia kit is seneye. If it’s not seneye we don’t want the approximations posted.


you can’t buy two dead bottles of bac from different brands anymore than happenstance will allow you to walk into a gas station and buy a winning lottery ticket right now. That’s why it’s a no test approach, the filter bac are certain to be alive when you dump them in, so there’s nothing to test for. Cheap kits won’t test accurately for most new setups anyway.


If one bottle is dead, then the other isn’t, and both of those have been directly tested on seneye as instantly able to carry a common starting bioload. If you add fish on day one, a very bad option due to disease they’d import, the system will still manage all their waste safely.


Disease preps before you add fish should be 100% of your planning and concern, not the cycle. We are about to get a very exact start date for the system, begin fish disease research listed on page one here.

per Dr. Reefs bottle bac study thread on implantation times per brand, the standard ten days has you covered there is no reason to take longer, the real time for implantation is likely 76 hours— the ten days is for safety and easy wait time. Simply add three small pinches heavily ground up powdered flake food, whatever the recommended dose is per bottle for your gallonage add that dose one time into your assembled tank running and heated with saltwater, let it stew ten days, do a partial water change to export some algae feed water, and you are done.


what a single reading of an api kit says at any time whatsoever wouldn’t matter, our entire 25 pages are reviews on how that doesn’t apply here. Only other cycling threads set things up and wait for zero ammonia on api to begin and never discuss disease preps, we are one million percent opposite of that option. We are specifically not spiking ammonia, testing for it, awaiting a drop to zero it’s the #1 thing we are against in all pages of this very strange but effective cycling thread

 

[discostew]

Excellent plan after a couple adjustments, thanks for posting. I’ll give what I think the bioload carry date will be, that’s our ongoing gag here. To remove testing headaches and aim everyone into disease preps is what we do-

new cycling science knows what your cycle end date will be before the tank is even built (that way if you were taking the tank to a marine aquarium convention, you’d meet their start date without a stall)

old cycling science uses cheap test kits guaranteed to misread to scare you into waiting fifty days to begin still skipping all disease preps, we don’t like that way here


That’s a no test cycle approach you have planned above
we wouldn’t want you to test daily for ammonia and report it unless the ammonia kit is seneye. If it’s not seneye we don’t want the approximations posted.


you can’t buy two dead bottles of bac from different brands anymore than happenstance will allow you to walk into a gas station and buy a winning lottery ticket right now. That’s why it’s a no test approach, the filter bac are certain to be alive when you dump them in, so there’s nothing to test for. Cheap kits won’t test accurately for most new setups anyway.


If one bottle is dead, then the other isn’t, and both of those have been directly tested on seneye as instantly able to carry a common starting bioload. If you add fish on day one, a very bad option due to disease they’d import, the system will still manage all their waste safely.


Disease preps before you add fish should be 100% of your planning and concern, not the cycle. We are about to get a very exact start date for the system, begin fish disease research listed on page one here.

per Dr. Reefs bottle bac study thread on implantation times per brand, the standard ten days has you covered there is no reason to take longer, the real time for implantation is likely 76 hours— the ten days is for safety and easy wait time. Simply add three small pinches heavily ground up powdered flake food, whatever the recommended dose is per bottle for your gallonage add that dose one time into your assembled tank running and heated with saltwater, let it stew ten days, do a partial water change to export some algae feed water, and you are done.


what a single reading of an api kit says at any time whatsoever wouldn’t matter, our entire 25 pages are reviews on how that doesn’t apply here. Only other cycling threads set things up and wait for zero ammonia on api to begin and never discuss disease preps, we are one million percent opposite of that option. We are specifically not spiking ammonia, testing for it, awaiting a drop to zero it’s the #1 thing we are against in all pages of this very strange but effective cycling thread

Thanks. Any specific kind of fish/flake? I’m new to the hobby. Just trying to avoid missteps. Regarding disease prevention i may go with pre qt fish. Or i may start my own qt tank using a 20g tank with an Aquaclear hob filter. Since there isn’t any live rock in there do i cycle it like the main tank and use the sponge filter as my only medium?

will review page one again