Hippo Tang ailment 8 weeks into QT??

[Humblefish]

It's because the API kit won't read low enough for cupramine. You need the seachem there's another brand but I seem to never be able to remember it) test kit to ionic copper like cupramine.

^^ This *just realized you are using Cupramine*

You will need either a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit to measure that.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

Hmm... so cupramine is weaker if I hear correctly maybe my concentration has been too low.. I'm following the directions for the product. I'll try a salifert kit as well. Thanks!

 

[melypr1985]

so cupramine is weaker if I hear correctly

It's not weakerreally. It's just effective at a different concentration. Technically it's stronger I guess. It's actually a different type of copper. Cupramine is Ionic whereas Coppersafe is Chelated. They are both effective, but the kits required to read them correctly are different.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

Update: The blue tang developed additional spots that I am 99% certain are/were ich.

So, I did a 35g WC (50g QT) and ordered a Salifert Copper test kit. I did increase the dose of Cupramine slightly from 20 drops per 5g to closer to 25-30.

Everyone is still eating and behaving.

Personal note: REALLY disappointed that 2 months of constant cupramine and bimonthly prazi didn't do the trick.. seems like I must have seriously missed the mark on the copper dosing for ich to still persist. That said, am I in for another 4 weeks of winter??

 

[melypr1985]

Update: The blue tang developed additional spots that I am 99% certain are/were ich.

So, I did a 35g WC (50g QT) and ordered a Salifert Copper test kit. I did increase the dose of Cupramine slightly from 20 drops per 5g to closer to 25-30.

Everyone is still eating and behaving.

Personal note: REALLY disappointed that 2 months of constant cupramine and bimonthly prazi didn't do the trick.. seems like I must have seriously missed the mark on the copper dosing for ich to still persist. That said, am I in for another 4 weeks of winter??

If you haven't been testing your copper this whole time, then I'd say that you haven't been at therapeutic levels for a good portion of QT. That would allow ick to still be present at this point. Also keeping the fish and ick in sub-therapeutic levels of copper could result in copper resistant ick.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

I have been testing but that test kit lead me to believe my levels were at borderline unhealthy levels.

I understand the concept of negative selection, the only treatment then would be to either go to even high levels of copper which is dangerous -OR- go to hypo and no copper (thinking that copper resistant ich still cant handle hypo -OR- throw my hands up and hope they dont die and put them in the tank anyway.

Thoughts?

 

[melypr1985]

I have been testing but that test kit lead me to believe my levels were at borderline unhealthy levels.

What kit have you been using? I see you just ordered the salifert kit, but was that what you were using before-hand? What exactly is "borderline unhealthy levels"? I want to know the number if you can please.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

I really appreciate the persistence and help Melypr. This was discussed earlier in the thread along with photos of the test. I was using the API kit and the levels looked to be in the 1ppm range.

I was told that API doesn't reflect Cupramine levels accurately however..

 

[melypr1985]

I really appreciate the persistence and help Melypr. This was discussed earlier in the thread along with photos of the test. I was using the API kit and the levels looked to be in the 1ppm range.

I was told that API doesn't reflect Cupramine levels accurately however..

Oh yeah. I remember now. Sorry, it's hard to keep track of all threads and what all happened in them. Rereading them each time would take forever! Yeah, it's impossible to tell if they levels were correct this whole time, so to be safe, I would continue treatment with copper when you have the correct test kit and can be sure the levels are where they should be.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

No worries, I understand.

Once I have the correct measuring kit. How long should I treat? An entire month?

 

[melypr1985]

No worries, I understand.

Once I have the correct measuring kit. How long should I treat? An entire month?

I would. That way you know for sure the copper was therapeutic for the full 30 days. If you have another -sterile- tank to transfer the fish to, then you could cut that in half and put them in the new, sterile tank and just observe for the remainder of the 30 days.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

Salifert results are equally fuzzy...

 

[melypr1985]

Salifert results are equally fuzzy...

Yeah these tests are sometimes hard to read. you really have to get the hang of it. I'd say that's .75 but that's an opinion based on a picture. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Griff]

I agree .75

 

[AmatuerAuer]

Goal concentration of 0.5 or 0.6 and a lethal level at 0.8 right? Wondering if I should dilute

 

[melypr1985]

Goal concentration of 0.5 or 0.6 and a lethal level at 0.8 right? Wondering if I should dilute

I've known a few that ran their QT's at higher concentrations with no problems. The key is raising it slowly and watching for problems with the fish. As long as the fish are fine, then I wouldn't worry about it much. You can correct it when you do a water change.... or just do the water change now if you are concerned. @4FordFamily

 

[AmatuerAuer]

But effective at concentrations of 0.5 and greater from what I've read

 

[melypr1985]

But effective at concentrations of 0.5 and greater from what I've read

Yes. Your goal is to keep it at .5 the whole 30 days. The minimum therapeutic dose is .35, but we always say to keep it at .5 to add a bit of a buffer for the user.

 

[AmatuerAuer]

Things have not improved. I had an issue with my kole tang bloating/getting dropsy during a large water change and filter clean. Not sure exactly what happened but assuming it has something to do with the maintenance.

Still just the hippo tang showing any symptoms, the kole tang, powder blue, fox face and two clowns are fine.

The hippo has the spots like ich but it also has a grayish white growth on the side that is larger than an ich spot. Velvet maybe?

So.... lets start fresh. Hypo or copper or other? How do I end this nightmare!

 

[4FordFamily]

If you haven't been testing your copper this whole time, then I'd say that you haven't been at therapeutic levels for a good portion of QT. That would allow ick to still be present at this point. Also keeping the fish and ick in sub-therapeutic levels of copper could result in copper resistant ick.

X2