Genetically Engineer Tangs to be small?

[AetherealKnight]

Genetic engineering is to manipulate the organism DNA to result in expression of certain characteristic. Example: insert jellyfish color genes (DNA) into albino fish chromosome (DNA) to cause the fish to produce florescent pigments.
I am sure if there is a way to insert a "dwarf gene" into one of the tangs to have a tiny tang, it will be done, and these fish will be for sale and would be a great hit.
I don't see anything wrong with it. We have deformed fish like fancy gold fish, award winning and expensive show (deformed) goldfish. If there is a choice for max 3 inches yellow tang, that is free of deformities other than being small, I would definitely go for it.
Putting this CB mini Yellow tang in a 40 gal tank would be infinitely better then cramp a full-size tang into the same tank.
Unfortunately, I think it is not possible. I may be wrong, but fish full grown size is determined by many factors, not just 1 gene, so genetic engineering is impossible. Selective breeding is our only option.

This is what it would be nice to see if someone did do this. A small tang without any deformity or health issues. Unfortunately that is unlikely. I mean just look at what we did to the pug. Those guys look cute but can barely breathe with those squished snouts.

 

[hart24601]

Well after just witnessing a very tense thread about how many tangs can you keep in a reef tank or how big the tank has to be for tangs.

Let’s focus on the a hypothetical future sprinkled with some science fiction?

Perhaps maybe one day science be will able to genetically engineer tangs to be smaller and maybe more docile like a gobby. Maybe they can make a new dwarf blue tang or a yellow tang that only grows to a max size of 2-3 inches. Allowing people to keep them in smaller tanks like 30-50 gallons.

After all we managed to do it with “glofish” by splicing genes from a jellyfish and inserting them into a non fluorescent fish. Or making farmed salmon to grow faster.

Though that is probably way easier than trying to make a fish smaller. But let’s see what you guys think.

It would be easier and cheaper to do the old school generic engineering- selective breeding.

I worked as a “genetic engineer” for many years in crop science and even that billion dollar industry we lagged far behind the breeding technology and our department, drought and cold tolerance, was laid off.

 

[OrionN]

Everybody.
Fish and animals are not people. Do we ever listen to ourselves? On what basis do we use to regulate these breeding efforts? Selective breeding has been around for as long as there are living animals
Any of you ever have cats and dogs? How do you think various breeds of dogs and cats come from? Other pets? The origin of the breeds of chicken, cows and pigs... ... that we eat.
I for one, would not want to live in a country that have such stupid laws/regulations, and hope that the US will never go down the path of these hypocrites' paths.
Would I like to keep Glow-fish, or deformed carb (gold fish), or fancy guppies? The answer is no. However, who am I to determine what other people can and cannot do with their properties? I agree with laws against animal cruelty. But that is it. If an owner wanted to put his healthy dog down because of some reason, as long as he is doing it humanely, I don't have any problem against it.

 

[OrionN]

If I can have this fish max out at 6-7 inches, I will get it without a doubt

 

[GothFishKeeper]

They did this with gouramis in the freshwater hobby and it resulted in fish with a life expectancy of a few months max after leaving the breeder because they’re riddled with genetic diseases and disorders. The LFS I work at gets them in from time to time and a majority of them die before even leaving the store in less than a week.

 

[Laughterman]

My take on it is, leave nature alone. We don't another mad billionaire to get involved with the aquarium hobby. One Bill Gates is more than enough.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Everybody.
Fish and animals are not people. Do we ever listen to ourselves? On what basis do we use to regulate these breeding efforts? Selective breeding has been around for as long as there are living animals
Any of you ever have cats and dogs? How do you think various breeds of dogs and cats come from? Other pets? The origin of the breeds of chicken, cows and pigs... ... that we eat.
I for one, would not want to live in a country that have such stupid laws/regulations, and hope that the US will never go down the path of these hypocrites' paths.
Would I like to keep Glow-fish, or deformed carb (gold fish), or fancy guppies? The answer is no. However, who am I to determine what other people can and cannot do with their properties? I agree with laws against animal cruelty. But that is it. If an owner wanted to put his healthy dog down because of some reason, as long as he is doing it humanely, I don't have any problem against it.

I disagree.

Selective breeding and genetic engineering are entirely different things.

Selective breeding simply involves organisms of the same species selected over and over for desirable traits. it really doesn't do anything that could not happen naturally.

Genetic engineering puts traits from different organisms, or entirely unnatural, synthetic traits devised in a lab into living organisms. Adding an unnatural trait into an animal for some reason or other, even if it might cause the animal constant pain or other discomfort is OK? Cows that produce milk containing vitamin C even if it makes their udders hurt all the time? Cats with green hair even if their skin is constantly itchy?

I don't see how one can suggest there should be no regulation of genetic engineering. I worked for a company (Genzyme) that strived for many, many years to successfully insert a single gene into humans. They were never successful at getting it to go where it needed to go. To suggest that genetic engineering is akin to selective breeding just misses the mark, IMO.

 

[William Chiavetta]

I really am interested in this and I want to study this and write an article on it. Since this is your idea, would you be okay with this? Would you want to help gather information and publish it with me? It would mainly cover GE and selective breeding.

 

[Formulator]

ehem!

/cough

You don’t want to go there with me. I was working 80 hour weeks as a formulation scientist at Pfizer, and had hands on the vaccine I think you are questioning. Its a non-starter with me, but I respect your opinion

 

[AetherealKnight]

I really am interested in this and I want to study this and write an article on it. Since this is your idea, would you be okay with this? Would you want to help gather information and publish it with me? It would mainly cover GE and selective breeding.

If you’re talking to me, then sure why not. It’s really not my idea. I’m sure someone has thought of it before me. But I wouldn’t be much help in helping you gather information. I know very little about genetic engineering and selective breeding for fish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You don’t want to go there with me. I was working 80 hour weeks as a formulation scientist at Pfizer, and had hands on the vaccine I think you are questioning. Its a non-starter with me, but I respect your opinion

People not in the business often have no idea how many and varied types of studies are needed to get a new drug approved. They look at nutraceuticals (herbs and such) at the drug store and assume drugs are similar.

The total cost to develop a new single new drug runs from hundreds of millions of dollars to several billion. Often the human trials involve thousands of patients. The costs are high to do the best effort to ensure safety and efficacy.

For comparison, the total cost of EVERY marine organism sold into the hobby worldwide in a year was estimated at $2.2 billion, which is less than the cost to develop some single drugs.

Marine Aquarium Trade worth $2.15bn, Study Shows | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

New research has generated the first global estimate of the number of fish and invertebrates within the Marine Aquarium Trade (MAT), as a way to incentivize industry sustainability and coral reef…

reefbuilders.com

 

[shcrimps]

Meh - waste of time. Now cow size bacon..... mmmmm

cow size tang though

 

[GARRIGA]

Dogs, cats and cattle are genetically selected to create size, shape and fur color as well as fur texture such as short vs long. Not engineered. Selectively bred.

 

[jackson6745]

Add fox faces to that list. A school of damsel sized fox face would be the cleanest reef in existence!

 

[Cali Reef Life]

Sounds like you just need a bigger tank

 

[Barncat]

Lol… yes, let’s chat over PM on this. That said… I agree that 0.5-3% is not insignificant but when you think about it from the perspective of when the interactions are likely to have happened and how many times we’ve had expansion and contractions of different genomes I would expect a higher genomic representation. It is also hard to know whether the percentage we are attributing to Neanderthals is actually the result of considerable genetic intermingling or just the result of one or two single very successful offspring. After all, Genghis Khan’s Y chromosomal lineage is carried by 0.5% of men out there.

The Ghenghis Khan thing is actually a myth. Having seen a recent sculpted recreation of a neanderthal man... as a particularly nervous female speciman I'd choose him as a mate over most male H. sapiens. His gentle face just made me feel safe. He wasn't ugly or anything either, he just looked like a dude you'd expect to find caringly tending some homestead in the woods, who would drop everything to help you if you needed his aid even if you were complete strangers.

BUT ON THE TANG THING:

No, heck no. Why? Because humans are dumb and largely breed/engineer things for vanity/convenience rather than sanity. It's because of humans that thousands of french bulldogs, english bulldogs and pugs are still being born every year despite scores of veterinarians pleading that these breeds should no longer be bred (or that they be bred healthier with proper faces,) because the breeding of these dogs is fully akin to torture as it condemns each and every puppy to terrible physical suffering.

Because people think that these poor things which need surgical reconstruction of their skulls in order to breathe properly and cannot reproduce without medical intervention are 'cute.' These puppers are also extremely prone to severe eye problems, skin infections, luxating patella, heatstroke... the list goes on. Without surgery these dogs spend their entire lives wheezing because their airways are so horrifically narrow. Quote my vet training: "It's like breathing through a straw - forever."

So-called teacup versions of dog breeds are riddled with many of these same issues.

So, a 'teacup' tang might not have such severe medical problems as a pug but forcing such extreme dwarfism on any animal is usually very bad for their health. Nope. Instead, let's just keep exploring the ocean - perhaps somewhere out there is a beautiful, as-yet unknown tiny tang species. Scientists are discovering new fish species every day so it certainly isn't impossible!

I really don't think laboratory genetic modification would work to create these tiny tangs - it would have to be done via captive breeding. Can it be done? Absolutely! I've no doubt! Should it be done? Absolutely not.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Sorry if it was a touch spicy! Thanks for the interesting question!

 

[CHSUB]

I have taken “heat” for my freshwater Angel fish in a 15 gallon. However, the breeder has been breeding fish for 50 years and has consistently selected small Angels to breed together. Now, he claims, his small breed “koi” stay small. Could be done with tangs, but might take decades.

 

[AetherealKnight]

Sounds like you just need a bigger tank

Me? Indeed I do! And it’s going to be exciting.

I’m hoping to get a 180 gallon soon. Still comparing which brands though. I’m currently leaning toward Cade rn. Although Red Sea tanks are marginally cheaper but I’m still worried about their seams though.

 

[Reefering1]

Me? Indeed I do! And it’s going to be exciting.

I’m hoping to get a 180 gallon soon. Still comparing which brands though. I’m currently leaning toward Cade rn. Although Red Sea tanks are marginally cheaper but I’m still worried about their seams thothough

Get yourself a 450g

 

[AetherealKnight]

Get yourself a 450g

Ehh I don’t plan on keeping anything bigger than a blue hippo tang. And don’t plan on stocking heavily.