Genetically Engineer Tangs to be small?

[Formulator]

Too late!
UC Davis has modified the genetic codes of stawberries to make them survive long distance shipping. They claim they improved the taste but making an berry into an apple did not improve the taste.

Corn, and who know how many other crops, not to mention how many people they have brainwashed in the Universities.

Don't you think that we need the yellow tang now to improve diversity in the field and increase their likelihood of survival from Climate Change?

We could mix in genes from cold water fishes and harvest them out of Portland.

Yes, you are correct that genetically modified foods are very common. But plants don’t have mobility, cross pollination is highly guarded and controlled in fields of these types of crops, and there are strict government regulations and approval processes. Just as a new drug must be intensely studied and trialed in humans, a new GMO food must be studied and trials run which are submitted, coincidentally, also to the FDA. These crops serve an important purpose, and things like drought resistant wheat have arguably saved Africa from endemic famine in the recent past.

It is a very different ethical discussion when the purpose of the genetic modification is purely for pleasure, and the organism could spread its genetic material unchecked if released into the wild inadvertently.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Well I think glow alligators would be cool. Both safety feature and somewhat like the highlighted puck in a hockey game or the strike zone... it would make those alligator close calls (or not so close call) video clips so much more sport like.

 

[AetherealKnight]

Too late!
UC Davis has modified the genetic codes of stawberries to make them survive long distance shipping. They claim they improved the taste but making an berry into an apple did not improve the taste.

Corn, and who know how many other crops, not to mention how many people they have brainwashed in the Universities.

Don't you think that we need the yellow tang now to improve diversity in the field and increase their likelihood of survival from Climate Change?

We could mix in genes from cold water fishes and harvest them out of Portland.

 

[BeanAnimal]

But plants don’t have mobility, cross pollination is highly guarded and controlled in fields of these types of crops

Tell that to farmers that have been sued by pioneer or monsanto for patented genetic markers showing up in their crops that neighbor fields with the GM products. Thankfully, to do date none of the suits have been awarded a win...

But there have been all kinda of cross pollination problems, from loss of organic certification, to reduced yields, and seed contamination. The latter meaning that if the farmer plants the following season, he can not use his contaminated seeds, or he/she will be sued for planting a product they are not licensed to plant....

 

[BriansBrain]

Maybe this yellow tang was lol idk. Bought him 3 years ago and I swear he has barely grown. I’m totally fine with it. Seems happy and healthy though

 

[Formulator]

Tell that to farmers that have been sued by pioneer or monsanto for patented genetic markers showing up in their crops that neighbor fields with the GM products. Thankfully, to do date none of the suits have been awarded a win...

But there have been all kinda of cross pollination problems, from loss of organic certification, to reduced yields, and seed contamination, meaning that if the farmer plants the following season, he can not use his contaminated seeds, or he/she will be sued for planting a product they are not licensed to plant....

Oh yes, you are absolutely correct. It is far from perfect. I took a biotech law class as an elective in college and the seed cleaning and cross pollination suits were a big part of the curriculum. The point was really to say that there are significant controls in place (whether they are working or not), it is highly regulated, and there is a strong benefit to humankind. These days one could argue that we would not be able to sustain the current world population without our GMO crops. I’m not saying how we got here was right, and that’s an argument for a different time. With all of the ethical challenges even for GMO foods which serve such an important purpose, it would be hard to argue the ethics of modifying a fish for the pleasure of a hobby.

 

[KrisReef]

Yes, you are correct that genetically modified foods are very common. But plants don’t have mobility, cross pollination is highly guarded and controlled in fields of these types of crops, and there are strict government regulations and approval processes. Just as a new drug must be intensely studied and trialed in humans, a new GMO food must be studied and trials run which are submitted, coincidentally, also to the FDA. These crops serve an important purpose, and things like drought resistant wheat have arguably saved Africa from endemic famine in the recent past.

It is a very different ethical discussion when the purpose of the genetic modification is purely for pleasure, and the organism could spread its genetic material unchecked if released into the wild inadvertently.

My uncle lived next to a large strawberry field in Southern California. We would go and visit, and after the fields were picked we would go in and pick boxes of strawberries that my mom made into pies and jam. The best part was eating field ripe berries that had not been genetically modified. The taste of those berries compared to todays production crops was like biting into a fresh apple, but now they taste just like a nice sweet potato. No juice and no sweetness.

The crime is that since these berries are grown for strawberry growers, they are also the ones sold at most industrial nurseries to Lowes and Home Depot and the rest. Same thing has happened with tomatoes and many fruit trees.

I think it proves your point about those lingering Neanderthal genes in the human population. They are so help bent on surviving that they don't care about their quality of life. It's really kind of sad, or dark was pointed out.

 

[JoJosReef]

The question is not whether we can do this, but rather whether we should.

As someone who has a career in the biotech industry, I can tell you the science is already there. We can make you a small tang right now, and it wouldn’t be groundbreaking science. Whether we should do this is an overwhelming NO. It is completely unethical to tamper with the genetics of a wild animal for the pleasure of hobbyists. What if one got loose in the ocean? Would they be sterile? If we can make designer fishes in the lab, why not humans? Dogs? Cats? Lions designed to be trainable for use in combat? Where do you draw the line? This is non-starter in my opinion and I believe it should be.

That said, selective breeding is possible and we can see the drastic results of such breeding practices in clown fish. Some would even question the ethics of that practice though.

Sign me up for a designer combat lion! I'd like it with a warpaint scoly color pattern in its fur. Thanks!

 

[AetherealKnight]

Sign me up for a designer combat lion! I'd like it with a warpaint scoly color pattern in its fur. Thanks!

Here ya go.

 

[JoJosReef]

Well I think glow alligators would be cool. Both safety feature and somewhat like the highlighted puck in a hockey game or the strike zone... it would make those alligator close calls (or not so close call) video clips so much more sport like.

Florida man gets eaten by gator, "Saw that one comin' a mile away"

 

[Doctorgori]

That Biota or ORA tang I purchased to me looks a lil weird already …and it’s just captive bred
I dunno … they might have already gone off the rails with clowns already

If I was a Rick-and-Morty type genetic scientist, I'd focus first on genetically engineering macroalgae that out-competes all nuisance algae. Or miniature cephalopods that don't go into senescence.

taking things further Ive always wondered if you could insert intelligence into plants …” smart algae” anyone? or put taste buds in your food, so it can taste you while you are tasting it… things can get out of hand

The question is not whether we can do this, but rather whether we should.

exactly

 

[AetherealKnight]

That Biota or ORA tang I purchased to me looks a lil weird already …and it’s just captive bred
I dunno … they might have already gone off the rails with clowns already

taking things further Ive always wondered if you could insert intelligence into plants …” smart algae” anyone? or put taste buds in your food, so it can taste you while you are tasting it… things can get out of hand

exactly

Yeah some designer clowns are a bit weird now. Like this one.

It’s like it got dipped in paint or something?

 

[1979fishgeek]

I think we’ve learnt from breeding dogs and fancy goldfish that messing with the original animals blueprint structure causes all sorts of issues. Mother Nature does it best.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah some designer clowns are a bit weird now. Like this one.

It’s like it got dipped in paint or something?

Maybe one day, but until that time, we have to rely on filters.

GloFish candidate?

 

[RSNJReef]

That does not sound good. What was the mechanism? Vitamin deficiency?

Not a clue. My guess is that it was form of growth hormone suppressant.

 

[RSNJReef]

accidental double post

 

[Formulator]

they might have already gone off the rails with clowns already

I would say they certainly have. I’m honestly surprised no regulatory bodies or environmental lobbies have stuck their noses into the runaway clownfish breeding practices. Fortunately a lot of the really crazy designer clowns are sterilized to protect the wallets of the breeders, so not as significant a threat were they to get into the wild.

 

[PharmrJohn]

I would say they certainly have. I’m honestly surprised no regulatory bodies or environmental lobbies have stuck their noses into the runaway clownfish breeding practices. Fortunately a lot of the really crazy designer clowns are sterilized to protect the wallets of the breeders, so not as significant a threat were they to get into the wild.

Yeah. I was thinking back 15 years ago and I was wondering if I just missed all of those variations! Back then it was O. Clowns. Or Purculas. Maybe a variant here and there but NOTHING like we have now. I really like the choices now. The variants are absolutely stunning. All of them. I've narrowed down to having a mated pair of Black Ice Clowns. I really like those.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Just as a new drug must be intensely studied and trialed in humans

ehem!

/cough

 

[OrionN]

I always thought that genetic engineering was a way to skip selective breeding over many generations into a much shorter time frame.

But agreed, there is an ethical dilemma in this. There is already some debate about the dangers of fast growing salmon escaping in the environment.

Genetic engineering is to manipulate the organism DNA to result in expression of certain characteristic. Example: insert jellyfish color genes (DNA) into albino fish chromosome (DNA) to cause the fish to produce florescent pigments.
I am sure if there is a way to insert a "dwarf gene" into one of the tangs to have a tiny tang, it will be done, and these fish will be for sale and would be a great hit.
I don't see anything wrong with it. We have deformed fish like fancy gold fish, award winning and expensive show (deformed) goldfish. If there is a choice for max 3 inches yellow tang, that is free of deformities other than being small, I would definitely go for it.
Putting this CB mini Yellow tang in a 40 gal tank would be infinitely better then cramp a full-size tang into the same tank.
Unfortunately, I think it is not possible. I may be wrong, but fish full grown size is determined by many factors, not just 1 gene, so genetic engineering is impossible. Selective breeding is our only option.